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  1. tonygoes's Avatar
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       #1  
    I've had my Treo 650 since they first came out, and was going to try to wait for Palm's Nova phone, but the battery died last year, so I got a Centro. I was still looking forward to the new phone, but with the details of the Pre coming out, I'm rethinking...

    Pros:
    - Multitasking (big plus)
    - No more crashing (one bad app shouldn't take down the phone)
    - Keeps the vertical qwerty form factor. (That, and dislike for Windows Mobile, has been the main thing keeping me on Palm phones.)

    Neutrual:
    - New UI (yes, it's pretty, but after a month, I probably won't care)
    - Wi-Fi (Wi-Fi is nice, but 90% of the time that I'm somewhere with a wifi signal, I also have easy access to a computer)
    - Cloud Sync (My treo has always been my main contact repository, with updates pushed to my pc - I don't have much of a use for google/facebook/internet contacts)
    - Higher MP camera (People don't seem to realize that more megapixes are TOTALLY USELESS unless you're printing the pictures out. Built in flash could be nice though, and depending on how good the image processing is, that could be an improvement).
    - Higher Resolution screen. (I rarely watch movies on my phone, and will be even less likely to if I'm stuck at 8GB. Other than that, I'm happy with the 320x320. Bigger is nice, but not a big selling point for me.)
    - No hotsync (I rarely sync at all. I get my email over IMAP, and I backup periodically, but I haven't actually needed a backup since I replaced my Treo 600 that lost all it's data whenever the battery died.)

    Cons:
    - No Stylus (not a huge deal, but I have a couple of games that use it. If they could replace the button with a trackball, or even a trackpoint like the IBM laptops have, I wouldn't miss the stylus at all.)
    - No D-pad (same thing - a few games may miss it, but not much. As long navigation is as easy as it was with the Treo's pad, I won't mind)
    - No Garnet emulation (this could be pretty big - I have a lot of software that I'll need to find upgrades or equivalents for. Hopefully Palm or a third party may do this later. No stylus and no D-pad make this less convenient, though)
    - No Video (I don't make a habit of shooting camera videos, but I've got some adorable videos of my kids that I only have because my Centro has a decent video camera. Hopefully, they'll add this in software.)
    - No Flash (People don't seem to realize that if Palm had this, or could commit to adding it to their browser, they would have by now. Hopefully, it's just a time issue, and they'll make an update later)
    - Hidden Linux API (in theory, most Linux software should work pretty well on the Pre. And before you say it's just a phone, think about it... 12 years ago, people were on the internet, doing just about everything they do now. And even the Centro specs out higher than an average 12 year old PC in every way except video resolution. Hopefully, Palm hasn't completely hidden the Linux layer from people who want it)
    - No SD (Palm's never included enough memory for me, so I've always gotten upgrades. I had a 2GB card with my 650, which I was filling up. I got a 4 for my Centro, which I filled, and replaced with an 8. I was thinking about getting a 16, but I wanted to wait for prices to come down. I've got about 1.5 GB free on it, and was definitely planning on moving up to 16 later this year. With the Pre coming out at 8GB and no SD, that's definitely a downgrade for me. 16 built in is fine, or SD is fine, but both missing is pretty bad.)


    I'd been intent on waiting for Palm's Nova phone, because I assumed it would be an improvement over what I have now. But given its limitations, I'm not seeing how it comes out much better than an Android phone. Don't get me wrong, it's not much worse either, but having played with a G1, the only bad things I could say about it are it's a horizontal qwerty, and it doesn't run my old Palm software. Well, if the Pre doesn't either, then why go with a Pre over a hypothetical vertical Android at all? Is a slick UI that much of a factor?
  2. hlazar's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'll bet that flash and video will be on the phone when it arrives and the palm emulator should be at least in beta by then. 8 gigs is a lot of memory and may be enough for most users.
    I'll bet that a pre professional is up the line with windows mobile below the flashy pre stuff, a stylus, and an sd card reader. It will be a few hundred dollars more, but I'm waiting for it.
    Henry L lazarus hlazar@netaxs.com
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    www.netaxs.com/~hlazar/god.html
  3. #3  
    The biggest drawbacks of the Centro for me are the crappy web browser and the lack of 3G on the GSM version. Multitasking would be nice but more for
    device stabilty.
  4. #4  
    I don't sweat the lack of an expansion card slot. 8 GB internal is pretty good, unless you're bound and determined to keep thousands of songs and a bunch of movies on your Pre. It just seems like overkill. My mobile is primarily a business tool. I can't stand watching movies on a cell phone screen, and a couple hundred songs is MORE than enough. I keep a separate iPod because of battery concerns, but mostly I don't even use that as I'm working and don't have the downtime.

    Flash is iffy. No telling when it will appear. Video is almost a certainty though. It's a software update away, no hardware changes necessary. I'm a little shocked my Blackberry does video and the Pre does not. Even my Treo 680 did video!
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldTreo View Post
    I've had my Treo 650 since they first came out, and was going to try to wait for Palm's Nova phone, but the battery died last year, so I got a Centro. I was still looking forward to the new phone, but with the details of the Pre coming out, I'm rethinking...

    Pros:
    - Multitasking (big plus)
    - No more crashing (one bad app shouldn't take down the phone)
    - Keeps the vertical qwerty form factor. (That, and dislike for Windows Mobile, has been the main thing keeping me on Palm phones.)

    Neutrual:
    - New UI (yes, it's pretty, but after a month, I probably won't care)
    - Wi-Fi (Wi-Fi is nice, but 90% of the time that I'm somewhere with a wifi signal, I also have easy access to a computer)
    - Cloud Sync (My treo has always been my main contact repository, with updates pushed to my pc - I don't have much of a use for google/facebook/internet contacts)
    - Higher MP camera (People don't seem to realize that more megapixes are TOTALLY USELESS unless you're printing the pictures out. Built in flash could be nice though, and depending on how good the image processing is, that could be an improvement).
    - Higher Resolution screen. (I rarely watch movies on my phone, and will be even less likely to if I'm stuck at 8GB. Other than that, I'm happy with the 320x320. Bigger is nice, but not a big selling point for me.)
    - No hotsync (I rarely sync at all. I get my email over IMAP, and I backup periodically, but I haven't actually needed a backup since I replaced my Treo 600 that lost all it's data whenever the battery died.)

    Cons:
    - No Stylus (not a huge deal, but I have a couple of games that use it. If they could replace the button with a trackball, or even a trackpoint like the IBM laptops have, I wouldn't miss the stylus at all.)
    - No D-pad (same thing - a few games may miss it, but not much. As long navigation is as easy as it was with the Treo's pad, I won't mind)
    - No Garnet emulation (this could be pretty big - I have a lot of software that I'll need to find upgrades or equivalents for. Hopefully Palm or a third party may do this later. No stylus and no D-pad make this less convenient, though)
    - No Video (I don't make a habit of shooting camera videos, but I've got some adorable videos of my kids that I only have because my Centro has a decent video camera. Hopefully, they'll add this in software.)
    - No Flash (People don't seem to realize that if Palm had this, or could commit to adding it to their browser, they would have by now. Hopefully, it's just a time issue, and they'll make an update later)
    - Hidden Linux API (in theory, most Linux software should work pretty well on the Pre. And before you say it's just a phone, think about it... 12 years ago, people were on the internet, doing just about everything they do now. And even the Centro specs out higher than an average 12 year old PC in every way except video resolution. Hopefully, Palm hasn't completely hidden the Linux layer from people who want it)
    - No SD (Palm's never included enough memory for me, so I've always gotten upgrades. I had a 2GB card with my 650, which I was filling up. I got a 4 for my Centro, which I filled, and replaced with an 8. I was thinking about getting a 16, but I wanted to wait for prices to come down. I've got about 1.5 GB free on it, and was definitely planning on moving up to 16 later this year. With the Pre coming out at 8GB and no SD, that's definitely a downgrade for me. 16 built in is fine, or SD is fine, but both missing is pretty bad.)


    I'd been intent on waiting for Palm's Nova phone, because I assumed it would be an improvement over what I have now. But given its limitations, I'm not seeing how it comes out much better than an Android phone. Don't get me wrong, it's not much worse either, but having played with a G1, the only bad things I could say about it are it's a horizontal qwerty, and it doesn't run my old Palm software. Well, if the Pre doesn't either, then why go with a Pre over a hypothetical vertical Android at all? Is a slick UI that much of a factor?
    You make some very nice points. I will piggy back on some of your points. My comments and review come from using my phone as a business device 1st. Most of my focus comes from the last Windows Mobile devices I have used:

    Motorola Q (CDMA) - need more options, switch to WM Pro
    TYTN (GSM) - wow I do not like sliders
    Treo 750v (GSM) - The best
    Motorola Q9 (GSM) - very powerful hardware, I still do not like standard
    Samsung i760 (CDMA) - what the hell is up with this form factor, run.
    iMate 8502 (GSM) - after several firmware upgrades very nice, form a little hard for me
    HP Ipaq 912c (GSM - Current) - buggy, good mix, still searching
    Eyes on the Treo Pro (GSM) or the Palm Pre (GSM)

    PROS:
    Stable - Agreed, one of the single most important points.
    Multi Tasking - Agreed.
    Form Factor - Agreed, for me the Treo 750V is hard to beat and this will be the first time I MAY BE happy with a slider over a qwerty bar, we shall see.
    New UI - This is where we disagree. One of biggest reason the Treo 750 and 750v are a pleasure to use is Palm added their special touched to the Windows Mobile OS not on top like others. IMHO this is one of the best WM handsets for form and usability. I crave an easy to use, smart, intuitive UI that does not cost me extra key presses or touches.
    No Stylus - We also disagree here. Every time I have to pull out the stylus to perform an action that I cannot perform with the dpad or touch pad I perceive this as a limitation or a negative. This is where Microsoft or the designer did not place enough research to realize the focus point does not reach this tab, button, or field in the correct order or at all without the DREADED stylus. My goal is one-handed use and ease.

    NEUTRAL:
    WIFI - Agreed, if they did not include it they would continue to receive the negative comments that they are not keeping pace even thou we who complain about it not being there rarely use WIFI (myself included).
    Cloud Sync / Hot Sync / Somekind of Sync - Coming from WM and avoiding the Palm OS I have no comment specifically on hotsync. Here is what I think. You must be able to Sync OTA and Desktop period. This is common with most handsets these days and any that do not have it are just crazy. We shall see how this all pans out in the final release.
    High MP Camera - Again same as WIFI, keep sharpening the edge on your tech and components, otherwise too many comment of how behind palm is. The key here is not the MP, but the execution and balance of quality.
    Higher Screen Res - Same as camera
    No Garnet emulation - I can imagine from my perception of holding Windows XP and running screaming in fear of Vista Upgrades that this is similar but not exact. I think all of you Palm OS owner will have to wait and see for 3rd party app solutions or find out that the benefit of the switch are greater than the cons. Coming from WM I will forfeit my WM apps to use the pre, so we shall see.
    Hidden Linux API - I will leave this neutral because this is outside of my knowledge.

    Con:
    No D-pad - I am very scared to leave my d-pad behind, Palm please do not fail me. I am hoping the interface will answer this.
    No Video - I imagine that by release this will be handled or much like the iphone it is on the list. Using my device more for business this is not as important.
    No Flash - Same as video above.
    No SD - I agree that I will be ok with 8GB, but this seems odd. Only time will tell on this one. Of course as someone quoted there are over 22 million iphone users that think this is OK?

    Regards
    graylion
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldTreo View Post
    Cons:
    [...]
    - No Flash (People don't seem to realize that if Palm had this, or could commit to adding it to their browser, they would have by now. Hopefully, it's just a time issue, and they'll make an update later)
    [...]
    Certainly not to belittle any of your other points, since I think you raised some good ones, but are there any smartphones that do Flash (other than Windows Mobile phones)? I ask not because I don't think it's important (although several years ago, I was in that camp), but more due to simple ignorance of some of the other mobile platforms. I had previously assumed iPhones could do it due to their multimedia focus, but thought I overheard differently from an avid iPhone user, and he's not around at the moment for me to clarify.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #7  
    Wi-Fi (Wi-Fi is nice, but 90% of the time that I'm somewhere with a wifi signal, I also have easy access to a computer)
    Thing is, I don't always want to go to a different room, turn my computer on, wait a few minutes for it to load, then try to remember that website they just mentioned on TV when I could just make a few keypresses on my Pre and visit the site where I'm sitting, in a fraction of the time/effort.
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
  8. #8  
    Sorry to say, but I think your cons are for the most part pretty trivial:

    - No Stylus: Useless when apps are designed around multitouch.
    - No D-pad: If this is really needed for an app, you could probably do an onscreen D-pad with the extra screen space
    - No Garnet emulation: Honestly, I doubt people are going to want to use most of the old apps after the new cool apps are out for the Pre
    - No Video: I'm sure there will be a 3rd party app for it very quickly if not on release day
    - No Flash: Again, i'm sure this will be added very quickly, but even the centro doesn't have this, so its not a con, its just something that hasn't been added yet
    - Hidden Linux API: Yea, this could potentially be a problem, but I'm sure Palm will work with developers to get important low level functions working.
    - No SD: This is my biggest issue, but from the sound of it, even if you got 16GB for your centro, you probably wouldn't use it anyways. The Pre on the other hand would be a perfect candidate for more memory, but that's not gonna stop people from getting it.
  9. #9  
    I'm hoping the Linux underneath is made accessible as well. If not I'm sure someone somewhere is going to find a way to do it. I'm pretty excited for this friggin phone like you wouldn't believe!
  10. #10  
    Im kinda obsessed myself. I have to watch the YouTube videos every few days.

    IGO
  11. #11  
    I think the answer to this is for you, it seems like its not that big of an upgrade, since you have no use for the Synergy/ Cloud features.

    But for someone who does, its a huge upgrade.

    Though I'd also argue that its a pretty big upgrade if you have multiple email accounts with multiple sets of contacts too.
  12. #12  
    I already handle multiple email accounts on my 775p with Chatter. It neatly combines all of them into one inbox view. No I'm not claiming chatter does everything that the Pre email app will do. OTOH, Chatter does do IMAP idle, and it's not clear the Pre will.

    I don't agree with all the Pros and Con's of the OP, but I too am waiting to see what the Pre includes out of the box, and what 3rd party developers will be able to add. I'm not convinced that the Pre, out of the box, will be as effective for my needs as my 755p. Cooler? Without a doubt. Better for multi-media? Clearly. More stable? Hopefully.

    But will it's calendar offer all the capabilities I find in Datebk6? Will it have a profile capability that automatically sets a quieter profile when I get to work, and switches back when I leave? And automatically switches to silent when I go to a meeting? Will it encrypt all my passwords, store them locally, and back them up to my desktop?

    Some of these things it may do. Some may come from 3rd party developers, some may not come at all. But my antique P-OS device does them all, right now. Just because it's new doesn't make it better for all purposes, or all people. I'll let other people find out what's good and bad, what's missing, and how many bugs it has. And make my decisions later.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I already handle multiple email accounts on my 775p with Chatter. It neatly combines all of them into one inbox view. No I'm not claiming chatter does everything that the Pre email app will do. OTOH, Chatter does do IMAP idle, and it's not clear the Pre will.
    Very true, but I seem to remember it doing separate contacts lists, I don't remember for sure though.
  14. #14  
    I will miss Slingbox, additional memory, the stylus and many palm apps. Been holding on to my 700p for an eternity and I am not sure I will switch right away which was an automatic for me in the Treo years.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Very true, but I seem to remember it doing separate contacts lists, I don't remember for sure though.
    It pulls in contacts from the built in Palm app.

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