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  1.    #1  
    In my view, (and I know the Pre has not been released but assuming all goes well and it has a timely release), the Pre is head and shoulders above all other phones/smartphones. Yes, it's not perfect. My question is, how long do you think it will take other companies to offer a phone that catches up to the Pre with all its great features? Or put another way, how difficult is Palm's achievement? Or put still another way, what is Palm's window of opportunity?
  2. #2  
    In my opinion, the hardware will not be on top for long at all. There are already devices with bigger screens. The processor will be topped probably within six months. Someone will do a large touchscreen with a portrait slide-out keyboard.

    However, as far as webOS goes, I think it would require serious architectural changes for iPhone to beat it (though they'll likely bring out some features to keep up). I know less about Android, but it already has multi-tasking, so it will probably catch up with many of the features pretty quickly, but the overall look and feel might take a longer time.

    If I were Apple, I'd be looking really hard at all of this right now. They have plenty of cash to make the needed investments. I would guess that if they were planning on bringing out another version of the iPhone soon, they'd delay it to upgrade processor, storage, and OS.

    Having said that, it will be a lot easier for Palm to match whatever the competition comes up with tit for tat with their new OS. If the Pre does well, they'll have enough money to continue to keep the new product pipeline full.

    So I see real competition in the smartphone market between iPhone, Android, and webOS in the future. I think this is good for us as consumers. I'm excited!
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    In my opinion, the hardware will not be on top for long at all. There are already devices with bigger screens. The processor will be topped probably within six months. Someone will do a large touchscreen with a portrait slide-out keyboard.
    I don't necessarily think that bigger is better. A larger screen means a larger device. In my opinion, part of the appeal of the Pre is its similarity to the traditional "clamshell" size and form factor.

    Going bigger may be possible, but it's have to be bigger with brains, so to speak. It'd have to fit the face as well as the Pre seems to. It would have to be as pocketable as the Pre. It would have to match the Pre's weight and balance standards.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    However, as far as webOS goes, I think it would require serious architectural changes for iPhone to beat it
    Not true at all. The problem with the iPhone isn't the architecture of the OS. Its the bug up Steve Job's posterior. A simple change in Apples policies are all that would be required to vanquish the Pre. A keyboard and removable battery would really help too of course.
  5. gjlowe's Avatar
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    #5  
    I think the answer to the question in the title of this thread will depend significantly on how quickly the device makes it to market. Just look what happened with the Xperia X1. When it finally came out, it was a rather ordinary device. The Pre definitely has more uniqueness going for it, and would likely remain a hot device for a while, but the sooner Palm can get it out the door, the more attachment it will get, and the more advanced it will be compared to other devices for a longer period of time.
  6. #6  
    i think palm has at least one year before others possibly catching up.

    iPhone needs more than a policy change. its too big. apple doesn't know how to make it more effective and small.

    android sure has the potential. but the first impression sure isn't good enough. i haven't really see any large software from google that are really impressive. picasa is slow. gds is horrible system resource drain. etc... google needs to put more attention on android.
  7. #7  
    The hardware would be easier to "copy" the look and feel... However, WebOS would be tough to catch up... Looking at WebOS, it is by far the most advanced mobile OS platform... It would probably take Apple and or Google at least 15 month to catch up... Keep in mind, whatever the new "thing" Apple would invent, it would have no choice but to make it "compatible" with the current applications... Oh boy, that is not pretty...
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    ...
    I don't necessarily think that bigger is better. A larger screen means a larger device. In my opinion, part of the appeal of the Pre is its similarity to the traditional "clamshell" size and form factor.
    ...
    I agree. The Pre's width is as wide as I want my phone. Not much narrower either or my must-have keyboard will be too narrow.

    Of course, if they can fit more pixels in, that's fine.
  9. #9  
    Palm can't rest on their laurels. IMO, the UI is key here and they MUST quickly develop a 3rd party application ecosystem to carry over all the old GarnetOS legacy users out there that might not be too comfortable leaving the ancient yet comfortable old platform. The specs on the Pre are nice but there definitely can be improvements....like microSD, higher rez VGA screen, higher MP cam, TV out, dual mode GSM/Cdma radio etc. Palm needs to diversify their product line as well with multiple form factors and designs. Nothing is static in the electronics/smartphone industry and they will have to adapt and constantly innovate or be relugated to the back once again like they had been for many years....finally they need to get the Pre to market NOW!
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  10. #10  
    I think its a different ball game now. Palm has their own modern OS and is basically a different company than they were. They'll definitely be doing updates and the like.

    The key thing is to sell that Pre and with the buzz of CES and a planned joint marketing effort from Sprint & others, i think they will.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I think its a different ball game now. Palm has their own modern OS and is basically a different company than they were. They'll definitely be doing updates and the like.

    The key thing is to sell that Pre and with the buzz of CES and a planned joint marketing effort from Sprint & others, i think they will.
    Are they really a different company? If they've been developing this operating system and product line for as long as they say, that overlaps with their previous product releases. In other words, why shouldn't we expect the same behavior from them post-Pre as we received ... err ... pre-Pre?

    If it's their Pre-philosophy that makes us* think they might be a different company, I have to wonder if we saw any evidence of that new philosophy before now. I do think Palm was showing us their progression, in some ways, because the Pre seems to be the culmination of a lot of what we've seen in their more recent devices such as no external antenna, smaller size, gps functionality, slick appearance, mini-usb port, 3.5 mm headset jack, etc. But how does that speak to a different philosophy or a different company?



    * - yes, "us" because I'm inclined to think of them differently, as well
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Not true at all. The problem with the iPhone isn't the architecture of the OS.
    Agreed. It's a fully multi-tasking OS, but one where multitasking is only permitted for some apps. Only one third-party app can run at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Its the bug up Steve Job's posterior. A simple change in Apples policies are all that would be required to vanquish the Pre.
    I disagree because I think new hardware is required, specifically hardware with more RAM. The iPhone has 128 MB of RAM only about 48 MB of which is free after boot (at least on my iPhone 3G - that's with 3G on, Wifi on, GPS on, BT off). That 48 MB rapidly drops to 20-30 MB and frequently dips much lower in normal use. In other words, the device is quite constrained by the amount of RAM it has. I'm pretty sure this is why Apple so restrictive about third-party apps not multitasking.

    EDIT: Meant to say that even with more RAM I don't think the iPhone would 'vanquish the Pre'. Despite some similarities, I don't think their core markets are quite the same: Apple's special sauce is entertainment - music, video, iTunes and integration of the whole media experience, games. Palm's special sauce seems to be getting things done quickly and efficiently.
    Last edited by marcol; 01/26/2009 at 07:09 AM.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I think its a different ball game now. Palm has their own modern OS and is basically a different company than they were. They'll definitely be doing updates and the like.
    You mean like they did with Garnet? Palm has done nothing to prove their ready to lead the industry again. We'll see in a couple of years (let's see how the Pre does out of the gate) if they're really back in the saddle.
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    #14  
    I'm interested to see what MS does with WM7. They have some pretty lofty ambitions with their motion gestures and the like, but they're adding onto a bloated OS that is not very energy efficient.

    Palm is doing the right thing by starting from scratch. If they have functionality that is usable, fun, energy efficient, and reliable, then they will grab a share of the marketplace for a while. But if the Pre is always being charged, is frustrating to use, or is always being rebooted, then they will fail miserably.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    ... IMO, the UI is key here and they MUST quickly develop a 3rd party application ecosystem to carry over all the old GarnetOS legacy users out there that might not be too comfortable leaving the ancient yet comfortable old platform. ...
    Even now, there are some applications for PalmOS that simply do not have any equivalents on other platforms. Not that this cannot be done, but Palm had the field to themselves 10 years (or so) ago, when they build a complete eco-system (singlehandedly - no pun, that) for handheld applications (with PalmOS).

    Many users would like to migrate their legacy applications to webOS, though Palm is aiming for a completely different type of environment for business, that has everything between 1) ringtone, wallpapers, websites - easy to produce by non-programmers, 2) an enterprise business platform - complex, secure and private and 3) personal and social environment - that force you to recklessly give out your personal information to strangers, and where they can spy on you and generally irritate you by every means possible. Like I said in another post, Google missed the target with Android, and webOS will probably the focus of all attention, with every other OS trying to catch-up.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    I disagree because I think new hardware is required, specifically hardware with more RAM. The iPhone has 128 MB of RAM only about 48 MB of which is free after boot (at least on my iPhone 3G - that's with 3G on, Wifi on, GPS on, BT off). That 48 MB rapidly drops to 20-30 MB and frequently dips much lower in normal use. In other words, the device is quite constrained by the amount of RAM it has. I'm pretty sure this is why Apple so restrictive about third-party apps not multitasking.

    EDIT: Meant to say that even with more RAM I don't think the iPhone would 'vanquish the Pre'. Despite some similarities, I don't think their core markets are quite the same: Apple's special sauce is entertainment - music, video, iTunes and integration of the whole media experience, games. Palm's special sauce seems to be getting things done quickly and efficiently.
    Stuffing more RAM into the next iPhone would not be difficult. They could probably double it by upgrading the memory chips. Given the iPhone's 25% market share, a less restrictive Apple policy would soon lead to a deluge of productivity applications to rival PalmOS. It's true that the iPhone very strong in the media/entertainment area but its big advantage over the Pre is the Apple logo on the back of the phone.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor To Pre View Post
    In my view, (and I know the Pre has not been released but assuming all goes well and it has a timely release), the Pre is head and shoulders above all other phones/smartphones. Yes, it's not perfect.
    Well, no device is going to be perfect. There are always compromises to fit some goal or another. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Pre. It _seems_ to be a real interesting device for the first time in a while from Palm. However, until it hits the streets, there's no point in getting too hyped about it, IMO.
    My question is, how long do you think it will take other companies to offer a phone that catches up to the Pre with all its great features?
    Really hard to say since we don't know how great its features really are yet. I think that most of its capabilities are within fairly easy reach (6 months or less), whereas others may not be achievable without hardware improvements. I'd say they have _at_most_ a 1 year head start.
    Or put another way, how difficult is Palm's achievement? Or put still another way, what is Palm's window of opportunity?
    The answer will really depend on how well Palm leverages the capabilities of the device and opens it up to developers. I'm reminded of the T|T and its highly capable OMAP processor that Palm never managed to fully leverage for multimedia.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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    #18  
    We'll see how it works out, but duplicating the functionality of Synergy would also probably require a significant re-architecting of the PIM functionality of any of the other systems. I'm looking forward to have the ability of multiple contact lists keeping my data separate in their sources, but combined in my mobile device. Even just the other day I ended up looking up a phone number in the Facebook app on my Centro, and thought to myself that on a Pre it would've just been there...
  19. jagowar's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Stuffing more RAM into the next iPhone would not be difficult. They could probably double it by upgrading the memory chips. Given the iPhone's 25% market share, a less restrictive Apple policy would soon lead to a deluge of productivity applications to rival PalmOS. It's true that the iPhone very strong in the media/entertainment area but its big advantage over the Pre is the Apple logo on the back of the phone.
    that will never fly.... unless there is a true iphone 2.0 with a completely separate marketplace because one thing apple is not going to do is make all those 1.0 and 3g models not work. whatever apple does will have to work on all iphones.

    and i personally dont think they will match it for a while.... they will do some things better than the pre but the pre will do some things better than the iphone.
  20. ksom's Avatar
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    #20  
    Another way a competitive produce can quickly level the playing field is by adding a feature that does not exist in Pre. The question is how significant that feature has to be and if one can come up with one.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
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