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  1. Rhody's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by SedahDrol View Post
    I would also like to add that it matters where the heuristics are interpreted. They are required to be interpreted by a program in memory or by computer implemented method. In Palms case it is the touchscreen itself that handles the interpretaion independent of the device.

    And heres the thing about scroll and next. Every Palm device I have owned does scroll and next and I can do them with my finger on the touchscreen. on some programs it matters where I do those gestures at ie the scroll bar, but on others like DtG's Pdf viewer I can scroll no matter where I am at. The pinch gesture is the only thing they have brought that is new to the touch screen on cellphone arena.

    Good thing for Palm is that their phone isn't out yet, so they currently aren't infringing. Bad news for everyone else, their phones are. So now apple's got a choice to go after them or not. If they chose not to then that will hurt their case against Palm for doing the same thing. I don't know what the other phones specs are, if they are using similar heuristics to that of Iphone to interpret the gestures via some program in the devices memory or not
    I have to warn you that you are making legal conclusions that you are not qualified to make. As someone who has worked in intellectual property law for over 15 years, I will tell you that you are perpetuating some very inaccurate information.
  2. #82  
    Thanks for the warnings. But this is just a forum for Pre, and not the patent law 101 forum.

    Hopefully people know its just opinions being posted here and not "legal conclusions"
  3. #83  
    Rhody,

    I'd like to hear more from you (especially your position on what you think might happen and ramifications of possible outcomes).

    Thanks
  4. Rhody's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Pooh View Post
    Rhody,

    I'd like to hear more from you (especially your position on what you think might happen and ramifications of possible outcomes).

    Thanks
    My position is that nobody here is qualified to have a position, including me. If people have opinions, then it would be clearer communication to state them as opinions. If people want to speculate, then it would be clearer communication to state it as speculation.

    It's fun to speculate and throw opinions around. But there are a few people here stating facts that are simply wrong.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    My position is that nobody here is qualified to have a position, including me. If people have opinions, then it would be clearer communication to state them as opinions. If people want to speculate, then it would be clearer communication to state it as speculation.

    It's fun to speculate and throw opinions around. But there are a few people here stating facts that are simply wrong.
    Understood. However, speculation coming from different people might be more credible. Speculation built on hopes and dreams mean very little to me. Speculation built on knowledge is more gooder
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    My position is that nobody here is qualified to have a position, including me. If people have opinions, then it would be clearer communication to state them as opinions. If people want to speculate, then it would be clearer communication to state it as speculation.
    This comment is not really "Pre related"; however, I just have to say, in my nearly 4 years lurking around on the TC forums, I think Rhody's comment above is one of the best thing I've ever seen posted!

    Ok, I'll throw in something on topic after all...

    My opinion is that Palm should fight any lawsuit that Apple throws at them regarding intellectual property of the iPhone versus the Pre!

    All I know is, the Pre better get here SOON... I have way too many temptations to pick up a BB Bold to replace my war torn, well used 650!

    ..Handspring...\..........Palm.........\.........Palm........\.........Palm......\.....Motorola.....
    .VisorDeluxe.../............Vx.........../........M-100......./......Treo650.../.......Droid........
  7. #87  
    What's going to happen if Apple does sue Palm? Will Palm be able to still release the Pre, or will the Courts tell them to hold back until the suit is settled. If the suit is settled and Palm wins, will Apple have to pay for any potential business Palm lost by not being able to sell the Pre when planned? Figures, finally a phone I am looking forward to, and then some monkey wrench has to be thrown in to bring the thing to a screeching halt!
  8. #88  
    I would like to think that, especially with all of the Apple input, Palm/Elevation would have made sure that they were on "firm ground" re patents etc before sinking their future into the Pre. But then maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    I would like to think that, especially with all of the Apple input, Palm/Elevation would have made sure that they were on "firm ground" re patents etc before sinking their future into the Pre. But then maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
    Your post reminds me of a coworker showing me his (I think) HTC Touch. Zooming a photo is accomplished by drawing a circle on the screen. Clockwise to zoom in, counter to zoom out, or vice versa.

    I'm thinking that they too did their homework, and decided not to use pinch.

    How do other touchscreens zoom? Instinct, Storm? Has everyone else opted not to use pinch after doing their homework or is the technology just beyond them?

    My post is sheer speculation, but the fact that Apple does now have a patent, combined with the fact that Palm does have former Apple employees, I think this would light a fire in at least a few attorney's bellies.

    It does seem so "natural" to pinch to zoom, but this is only to Apples credit. They created (or patented) a UI gesture that seems as if it were meant to be.

    I am looking forward to purchasing the Pre, but I do wish I knew how this would play out.
    Last edited by galavanter; 01/27/2009 at 09:17 PM.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by galavanter View Post
    How do other touchscreens zoom? Instinct, Storm? Has everyone else opted not to use pinch after doing their homework or is the technology just beyond them?
    Well, my multitouch tablet does exactly that, a pinch zoom.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by galavanter View Post
    Your post reminds me of a coworker showing me his (I think) HTC Touch. Zooming a photo is accomplished by drawing a circle on the screen. Clockwise to zoom in, counter to zoom out, or vice versa.

    I'm thinking that they too did their homework, and decided not to use pinch.

    How do other touchscreens zoom? Instinct, Storm? Has everyone else opted not to use pinch after doing their homework or is the technology just beyond them?

    My post is sheer speculation, but the fact that Apple does now have a patent, combined with the fact that Palm does have former Apple employees, I think this would light a fire in at least a few attorney's bellies.

    It does seem so "natural" to pinch to zoom, but this is only to Apples credit. They created (or patented) a UI gesture that seems as if it were meant to be.

    I am looking forward to purchasing the Pre, but I do wish I knew how this would play out.
    Can't speak to any other motivations, but I believe pinch-zoom would be impossible on an HTC Touch- the screen can't recognize multiple points of touch. As far as I know, the only HTC-manufactured device that is capable of multitouch at all is the G1, and even that needs enabling in software.

    Not sure what the Storm does exactly, that's a good question, as the Storm does have some multitouch gestures. (I believe that's how they handle copy/paste)
    Palm T|X and Palm Centro (VZW)
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
    Can't speak to any other motivations, but I believe pinch-zoom would be impossible on an HTC Touch- the screen can't recognize multiple points of touch. As far as I know, the only HTC-manufactured device that is capable of multitouch at all is the G1, and even that needs enabling in software.

    Not sure what the Storm does exactly, that's a good question, as the Storm does have some multitouch gestures. (I believe that's how they handle copy/paste)
    While the G1 and the Storm have a capacitive screen like the iPhone, neither have multi touch.
  13. meballard's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by MannyZ28 View Post
    What's going to happen if Apple does sue Palm? Will Palm be able to still release the Pre, or will the Courts tell them to hold back until the suit is settled. If the suit is settled and Palm wins, will Apple have to pay for any potential business Palm lost by not being able to sell the Pre when planned? Figures, finally a phone I am looking forward to, and then some monkey wrench has to be thrown in to bring the thing to a screeching halt!
    Depends, there is no simple answer. If Apple applies for an injunction on Pre sales, and it succeeds, then Palm wouldn't be able to sell anymore (at least in the US) until the injunction is lifted. Whether that will happen or not remains to be seen (although there is significant doubt in my mind, as from a quick check online, four requirements generally have to be met to issue an injunction, specifically 1) The plaintiff has demonstrated a reasonable likelihood of success on the merits of the case (i.e., that the patent in issue is valid and infringed). 2) The plaintiff will be irreparably harmed if the injunction is not issued. 3) The threatened harm to the plaintiff outweighs the harm the injunction may inflict on the defendant. 4) The injunction will serve the public interest., and I have a feeling 2 would be difficult to pass muster, 3 even more so, and 4 of a similar level, let alone 1, mind you I am certainly no expert, but that's my speculation).
  14. #94  
    Useful info here:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01...e_pre_patents/

    including links a number of Apple's pending applications.
  15. 842867's Avatar
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    #95  
    Start the boycott NOW! Email everyone, post on every blog, do what you can to get it up top on google.
  16. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #96  
    Link that I'm trying to read while in class

    http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/a...epth-analysis/
  17. #97  
    Just about to post that as well. VERY well laid out.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerorne View Post
    Link that I'm trying to read while in class

    http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/a...epth-analysis/
    Wow thanks. Fascinating read. Great job Nilay Patel.
  19. #99  
    I'm sorry,

    Maybe this is better posted here.

    There was like 5-6 threads covering the general topic:
    palm/apple patents & sue palm/apple

    Anyway,
    Here:

    http://www.precentral.net/palm-ceo-e...-pre-investors

    * On the issue of PATENTS, Colligan made sure to note that there are no pending legal actions with Apple right now. More pointedly, he noted that Palm has 15 years worth of patents (over 1500 of them in total) and that in patent fights often go like this:


    The reason you do that is to have a defensive position. It's like two little porcupines going around, and you don't want to touch each other because you might get stung. You peacefully coexist and everything's OK and you keep working together. We're very respectful about people's intellectual property, we believe we're huge innovators and have been for a lot of years and that this product has an enormous number of innovations in it. If something does happen there, we do have the portfolio, we think to defend ourselves and to be successful doing that. But nothing's happened to date, so we're really just focused on getting the product out the door.
    Just call me Berd.
  20. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #100  
    I laughed when he put that porcupine imagery in my head.

    But my question is... by defensive strategy does that mean do nothing unless Apple does something? or does that mean try to get the ball rolling with cross-licensing.

    What if Apple does nothing now, and decides to simply steal some of the Pre features that Palm is no doubt patenting, thinking that Palm isn't going to do any attacking?
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

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