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  1.    #1  
    I just don't get this... we keep seeing rumors that there is a Treo Pro for Sprint about to be released, but I keep scratching my head and wondering why they're even bothering with it. I get that Palm might want to milk the Treo Pro design for whatever they can before the Pre comes out, but to me it feels like the 800w vs Pro release all over again. It didn't give people a warm fuzzy about Sprint and Palm that they were forced into buying a 800w when a much sleeker phone came out a couple months later. Second of all, Palm/Sprint should be focusing ALL their attention on the Pre! If they can get a couple million of those suckers shipped in the first year they may succeed in pulling TONS of developers towards the new platform. Rubinstein made it clear that this platform will only succeed if it gets the developer support for it. With all effort to release ASAP for the next few months and to release the SDK immediately (even in beta), we may see that Palm really will get the developer support they're hoping for. To release the Palm Pro gives people a sense that the Pre is going to be put off until the summer and with Apple's inevitable announcement of the 3rd gen iPhone, Palm may not be able to gain the customer base they're hoping for. I know I've been itching for a new cool phone for sprint for quite awhile, but I'm not desperate enough to jump to old technology. I'd rather dump Palm for a Android phone that I know will have the 3rd party support. I sure hope they'll forget about the Treo Pro and get WebOS moving!!!
  2. #2  
    schnoid: Quite a lot of Palm's market is businesses wanting WinMo phones.

    Abandoning the Treo Pro would mean ditching the WinMo market.

    It doesn't hurt them to keep making it, HTC does the manufacture, and all that.

    The Treo line will be a WinMo business-only phone, the Pre will be a webOS personal AND business phone, and the Centro is being positioned as a Palm OS personal-only phone.
  3.    #3  
    I guess you make a lot of sense in your reasoning, but I guess I'm not really sure why a WM would be needed for business customers if the Palm Pre ends up being as awesome as we expect it to be. It seems like all those business customers could be just as happy with WebOS if it has everything they could do on WM plus more. On top of that, App developers won't have to choose to develop a business app for WM instead of WebOS. Maybe I'm overestimating the number of potential Palm Pro customers and their significance to the Palm Pre community, but it would be really nice to see this as a REAL contender to the iphone with almost as many users in the next few years.
  4. #4  
    I agree, eventually the Pre or its progeny may be contenders to full scale enterprise...
    Its up to the 3rd party folks to take it there.
  5. H_D
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    #5  
    It wouldnt be a good business decision to abandon WM. If they did, the WM community would feel the same as the PalmOS community has felt for a while regarding support & development from Palm.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ya Boi D View Post
    It wouldnt be a good business decision to abandon WM. If they did, the WM community would feel the same as the PalmOS community has felt for a while regarding support & development from Palm.
    I think the big difference is that Palm made both the phones and the OS and they both stayed stagnant for a loooong time. WM on the other hand will continue to be developed and many phones out there support it and will continue to support it for what appears to be at least a few more years. There's no reason that Palm has to be one of the many phone developers that support it as well. I expect that Palm will definitely not want to keep updating PalmOS (Garnet) for much longer. As it is they have barely come out with any advances on it in years. Bringing everyone to the WebOS platform keeps people focused on Palm, while WM users may feel like jumping ship whenever a shiny new Nokia, Motorola or whatever comes out.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    I just don't get this... we keep seeing rumors that there is a Treo Pro for Sprint about to be released, but I keep scratching my head and wondering why they're even bothering with it. I get that Palm might want to milk the Treo Pro design for whatever they can before the Pre comes out, but to me it feels like the 800w vs Pro release all over again. It didn't give people a warm fuzzy about Sprint and Palm that they were forced into buying a 800w when a much sleeker phone came out a couple months later. Second of all, Palm/Sprint should be focusing ALL their attention on the Pre! If they can get a couple million of those suckers shipped in the first year they may succeed in pulling TONS of developers towards the new platform. Rubinstein made it clear that this platform will only succeed if it gets the developer support for it. With all effort to release ASAP for the next few months and to release the SDK immediately (even in beta), we may see that Palm really will get the developer support they're hoping for. To release the Palm Pro gives people a sense that the Pre is going to be put off until the summer and with Apple's inevitable announcement of the 3rd gen iPhone, Palm may not be able to gain the customer base they're hoping for. I know I've been itching for a new cool phone for sprint for quite awhile, but I'm not desperate enough to jump to old technology. I'd rather dump Palm for a Android phone that I know will have the 3rd party support. I sure hope they'll forget about the Treo Pro and get WebOS moving!!!
    Because there are a TON of people who want a WinMo device no matter how good webOS, Android, or the iPhone becomes. Some choose this because that is what their employers prefer. Others because, well, they just prefer WinMo for some (very odd) reason!

    In short, there is still a sizable revenue stream in WinMo devices.
    MoBill - Use your Authorize.net account to bill your customers with your webOS device!!
    MoJack - Track your lost or stolen webOS device from anywhere!
    Time to get VIRAL
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    I guess you make a lot of sense in your reasoning, but I guess I'm not really sure why a WM would be needed for business customers if the Palm Pre ends up being as awesome as we expect it to be. It seems like all those business customers could be just as happy with WebOS if it has everything they could do on WM plus more.
    Sprint currently has a backlog of orders of the Touch Pro. Palm probably can provide Treo Pros at a good price as a backup.

    More importantly:
    The pre is not out. the OS is not out. Even when it is out, it will be a few months before we see it on Verizon or ATT/GSM with their much bigger large institutional buyer footprint. WM has been out for years in several improving iterations. I would expect large line institutional buyers would wait six months after it is out broadly on the bigger networks.

    That is a year. Additionally the first device's marketing identity is not oriented toward large institutional business buyers.

    The Pro on the other hand has been out for months in GSM. It has an operating system that is a known quantity in terms of security, applications and integration into a enterprise level systems.

    While you and I think of IT as fast moving, in a ,of of corporate structure it can be among the slowest moving aspects. Integrating a new OS involves training of the the corporate IT people and lots of other hurdles inherent to institutions.

    On top of that, as exciting as the PRE and new OS are, the company behind them is more financially weak than those backing other OS, and has a track record of support and follow-up that we can safely say is not great.

    The carrier, Sprint lost a huge number of business clients with the Nextel debacle. The nextel buy was designed to try and get competitive with ATT and Verizon on business clients and it made things worse. They can't bank their remaining business share on one maker, that may get some big business traction in 9 to 15 months even if the device and OS wither the second coming.

    There is nothing more rational then Sprint picking up the Pro now. They ave almost zero training to do themselves given the existing support material, teams and carrier system integration for the 800w , the extant WM user buyers have zero training and known expectations, and it is a nice refinement on the 800w, with more features, a more modern look, better battery life -- a key issue for business users -- thinner and with certain bugs addressed.

    they probably waited until a tipping point with getting rid of the 800w backstock -- and also the fact that Sprint can not get enough Touch pros to satisfy demand.
  9. Minsc's Avatar
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    #9  
    I agree that the timing is very odd. And I'm not sure I agree that there's TONS of WM users out there who are going to feel disenfranchised if Palm dumped WM. Consumers certainly don't care by and large (not counting the .5% of users like us who hang out on websites like this), and I have a tough time believing that there's that many enterprise customers using WM smartphones. PDA's maybe, but smartphones? (are there any corporations out there - other than Microsoft - who have chosen WM as their messaging platform over Blackberry??)
  10. #10  
    How many phones does Samsung have out at anytime? LG, HTC, Motorola? Why put all your eggs in one basket? If the Pre has problems like the 700w had, it could kill it right off the bat. You think they thought that the 700w was a lemon when they released it? No, they were as sure as they are with the Pre that it will be ready when released. Stuff happens!
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
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    #11  
    Or to give people that have a "defective" 800w the Pro vs a Pre.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    I agree that the timing is very odd. And I'm not sure I agree that there's TONS of WM users out there who are going to feel disenfranchised if Palm dumped WM. Consumers certainly don't care by and large (not counting the .5% of users like us who hang out on websites like this), and I have a tough time believing that there's that many enterprise customers using WM smartphones. PDA's maybe, but smartphones? (are there any corporations out there - other than Microsoft - who have chosen WM as their messaging platform over Blackberry??)
    The timing makes perfect sense. Palm can't go a year abanding the enterprise market. That is a lifetime. Being in there with their brand matters.

    So Palm may dump WM. We mostly agree thy just cant for the next year or they will lose a huge chunk of the enterprise environment.

    Obviously neither can Sprint dump WM, and what is Palm at this point without Sprint?

    I deal a lot with corporate customers. You see a huge amount of WM devices (of course you see huge numbers of verizon and ATT and very little Sprint). Rim is dominant among corporate distributions for specific uses, messaging and email. Capital hill, boom, 25,000 staffers at a pop. But WM is the rule right now for power use and they have a huge inertial bite of of Enterprise that will take a six months from release in large distribution of customer hands for a new OS to make significant inroads into.
    Last edited by aero; 01/14/2009 at 07:37 PM.
  13. Minsc's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    The timing makes perfect sense. Palm can't go a year abanding the enterprise market. That is a lifetime. Being in there with their brand matters.
    I guess it all depends on when the Pre gets released. Other than Exchange support, what makes WM "enterprise friendly"? My point being that the Pre will have Exchange support too, and if the Pre is right around the corner then I think the timing is odd.
    I deal a lot with corporate customers. You see a huge amount of WM devices (of course you see huge numbers of verizon and ATT and very little Sprint). Rim is dominant among corporate distributions for specific uses, messaging and email. Capital hill, boom, 25,000 staffers at a pop. But WM is the rule right now for power use and they have a huge inertial bite of of Enterprise that will take a six months from release in large distribution of customer hands for a new OS to make significant inroads into.
    I'm really shooting from the hip here as I have no real evidence, other than my own observations. But informally, thinking about the company I work for and the companies my friends and family work for, all of them support Blackberry as their primary messaging solution. There's a couple that also support WM, but more as a convenience to the end users. My impression is that most non-techie employees are - if given the choice - going to choose a Blackberry device over a WM almost every time. Either because they think BB devices are the best, or because they've had a not-so-great experience with a WM device. (which isn't hard to believe)
    Last edited by Minsc; 01/15/2009 at 10:33 AM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    I guess it all depends on when the Pre gets released. Other than Exchange support, what makes WM "enterprise friendly"? My point being that the Pre will have Exchange support too, and if the Pre is right around the corner then I think the timing is odd.
    The MS development tools. There are a lot of Windows developers in corporate America.
  15. #15  
    For me it is a build quality issue. I went through 3 800W devices (2 key pads defective & 1 dying at the boot load screen) and frankly, got sick of it. Three devices, none more than 3 months old. Had the Treo Pro been available, I would seriously have considered it. However, it was not and I opted for the Touch Pro. I hate the key pad, always have, never cared for a slider, but in terms of stability, speed, no slow-downs, et cetera, it is a heck of a device.

    When the Treo Pro comes to Sprint, I will wander down and look at it.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    For me it is a build quality issue. I went through 3 800W devices (2 key pads defective & 1 dying at the boot load screen) and frankly, got sick of it. Three devices, none more than 3 months old. Had the Treo Pro been available, I would seriously have considered it. However, it was not and I opted for the Touch Pro. I hate the key pad, always have, never cared for a slider, but in terms of stability, speed, no slow-downs, et cetera, it is a heck of a device.

    When the Treo Pro comes to Sprint, I will wander down and look at it.
    The big question is if the Treo Pro came out next month and you knew the Palm Pre was coming out a max of 2 months after that, would you still consider the Treo Pro?
  17. jfa1's Avatar
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    #17  
    I have spent a long time waiting for ATT to pick up the pro and I dont think its ever going to happen Their winmo6.1 stable is too crowded now. I could maybe wait for for the gsm pre and maybe not depends on how long the wait is and whether or not is picked up by ATT or Palm goes the way they went with the Pro which I suspect has probably hurt their sales figures. I dont really understand their decision to go with Sprint for the Pre coming right at the time that Alltel-Verizon merger/sale is consumated leaving sprint as the low man on the totem pole custometr base wise. I have said it elsewhere that Palm should have made this device a dual radio cdma and gsm device and let the user decide which cellular provider they want or do a simultaneous release on a cdma and gsm provider. Most people I think like their carrier enough that they aren't going to switch carriers for a device. I know I wont switch to sprint to get the pre. I woukld have bought it from sprint if it has dual cdma and gsm radios. The technology is there. Th eBB storm has it the HTC twin is coming out with it.
  18. #18  
    Before this last problem, no and that is because I really like the extra 2 keys. Now that I have gotten away from them, yes. The reason: business use. I am a heavy user of Excel and a few other WM applications. I am definitely open to waiting to see what the Pre does and hopefully the complaints I currently have with Palm will not be an issue.
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    #19  
    The other thing about WinMo phones is that businesses can lock them down and do all sorts of enterprise-y things to them. It doesn't sound like the Pre has that stuff, and thus it's not a replacement. It's not just about Exchange, people.

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