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  1. #21  
    I've been doing even more research. here is a pending patent for cypress semiconductor on there method of detecting gestures.

    It hints to why apple may have worded their patent the way they did with words like "heuristics" and "angle". This patent was filed a little less than 2 years before apples "multi-touch gestures".

    Cypress' patent uses time intervals to determine it's gestures. It doesn't appear to cover pinch or rotate but a pinch could easily be interpreted as 2 separate (by time) tap and drag events going toward each other. Similarly rotate could be interpreted as 1 or 2 separate(again by time) drag event(s). This is the patent the Pre's gestures are most likely riding on. Here's the kicker this patent not only deals includes touch screens, but also the pre's bottom touch pad because it covers everything touch. It's quite interesting read. I've only glanced over it, but it could be the patent that settles once and for all whether the Pre is violating apples patents. Once again this patent hasn't been granted yet.

    That said it seems to me that Palm might actually be implementing more than just a touch screen from Cypress Semiconductor. Many of the Pre's components can be integrated with Cypress Programmable System on a Chip specifically the accelerometer and proximity switches.
    --Nextel Blackberry 7520 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Sprint Treo 755p -> Sprint Pre
  2. #22  
    ? loser of what?
    I guess I should have clarified. The new Palm obviously has Apple scared. They can't believe Palm of all companies has come up with something that could derail the dominance of the iphone. They're probably upset that the engineers of the Pre consist of a handful of ex-Apple engineers. So losers in the sense that the iphone might not be on top for much longer. I'm just sayin'.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by epz3 View Post
    I guess I should have clarified. The new Palm obviously has Apple scared.

    that is so silly.. it is funny. lol

    Apple could buy palm and then put them out of business if they were that concerned.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  4. #24  
    I'm not sure if this was posted in the other threads- but here is some of the best analysis of the Apple patent, and what it could mean to Apple:


    http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/a...epth-analysis/

    The main point I take away from this is Palm has patents that the iPhone might be in violation of, and Apple has way too much to lose by taking it to court.
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    #25  
    haha... that makes thread number 4 that it's in. =P.

    I thought the alien vs predator imagery was pretty funny.
  6. #26  
    Apple doesn't have to beat Palm in court. They can just tie them up, cost them whatever cash and credit they have left, and then buy them for pennies per share. I don't think Palm will survive a patent "biatchslapfest" with Apple, nor does Elevation Partners have the will to see something like this through financially.
  7. #27  
    We've talked much about apples iphone patents. but very little has been mentioned about features that appear on the Palm Pre that Palm has a patent pending.

    for instance Location based reminders
    That investor guy mentioned pre is implementing this type of feature with their calendar and gps


    cloud syncronization?: Data Synchronization Transparent to Application

    This kind of sounds like cloud syncronization. since it happens in the background.
    --Nextel Blackberry 7520 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Sprint Treo 755p -> Sprint Pre
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    Apple doesn't have to beat Palm in court. They can just tie them up, cost them whatever cash and credit they have left, and then buy them for pennies per share. I don't think Palm will survive a patent "biatchslapfest" with Apple, nor does Elevation Partners have the will to see something like this through financially.
    You also have the issue of developers being affect. Developers become stakeholders in a company and OS product line. They are making an investment based on future sales of a third party product. If they think there will be problems affecting either viably or total sales the degree and interest they have in investing their time is decreased.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You also have the issue of developers being affect. Developers become stakeholders in a company and OS product line. They are making an investment based on future sales of a third party product. If they think there will be problems affecting either viably or total sales the degree and interest they have in investing their time is decreased.
    I think Aero provides the most valid point under this topic so far. Although Pre seems to have some neat features that iPhone doesn't have at present, it would be nothing for Apple to incorporate them into the next generation iPhone. What is going to make or break the chances of Pre to truly be an iPhone rival is the amount of buy-in from the developer community. I love Apple products, but don't agree with how Apple has chosen to treat the developer community. Also, even though the App Store has been very successful, the iPhone platform is not the preferred one for developers. So, there are many who can't wait for an alternative.

    Judging from what we know about the Pre, the webOS platform already has many developers interested, as well as speculation on how Palm's App Catalog will work compared to the Apple's App store. However, no serious developers are going to throw their eggs into the Pre basket with a mega law suit hanging over Palm's head. The risk is just too great.

    So far, Palm has also not been very proactive in alleviating any of these concerns. No statements, no definite release dates, no development kits... no nothing. As much as I would love to see a rival to the iPhone in Palm's Pre, the possibility of that happening anytime soon is looking rather grim. We may all have to sit back and wait for the dust to settle on this one. If this all does go to court, Apple's overweight piggy bank may in reality determine the end result.
  10. #30  
    http://http://www.cnbc.com/id/28978246

    Perez-Fernandez argues that Apple has no legal ground to stand on, and while the sabre-rattling might be rattling some competitor stocks, if Apple were to move forward with any litigation based on this, it could prove more threatening to itself than to any of its rivals.

    Last edited by czarcat; 02/02/2009 at 01:16 PM.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by czarcat View Post
    Very interesting find Czarcat. Alot of the argument is very sound. In a way it would be like trying to patent using a steering wheel to steer a car. In a few years time, the idea of trying to have an exclusive patent on multi-touch will probably seem just as absurd, since it is a revolutionary way of interacting with any touch screen device.

    Either way, we can trust that the guys at Apple are smart enough to know where to go and where not to go. Let's face it, they haven't had to rely on the power of patents to get to where they are. They have consistently proven the superiority of their technology and at a time when the rest of the world is going down the tubes, they're still raking in huge amounts of cash.

    Sending out some tremors into the technology world rumoring a Palm/Apple legal battle, has probably already had the effect they (Apple) intended it for. Just Google "Palm Apple Patent" and look how many people it has kept occupied for the last month, especially in the developer community. (1,5 million hits last time I checked) As long as the possibility of a lawsuit hangs over Palm's head, public opinion says "stay away from the Pre". Politics and Business seem to be a lot more symbiotic than we may like to admit.
  12. #32  
    From Bloomberg.com

    Apple may be more successful fighting off competitors in the marketplace than in the courtroom, (Robert) Yoches said.

    “Apple has never been successful in the past in keeping people out of the market by using its patent portfolio,” he said. “What’s important is how fast you can get out on the market and make a name for yourself.”
  13. #33  
    A quick answer on patents. Even though Palm hasn't sued for patent infringements, doesn't mean they can't in the future.

    Here is from a patent lawyer's quote.
    There is no statute of limitations for patent infringement -- as long as the patent is valid when the lawsuit is filed, that is! However, you can only go back 6 years for damages. See 35 U.S.C. 286. So, you could have someone infringing for, say, 15 years, and sue them after 15 years, and there would be no bar on the suit due to statute of lmitations -- but you would only be able to base your damages on the last 6 years of infringement.

    So in conclusion, Apple will go after Palm, and then Palm would go back at Apple, and then an agreement would be made between the two.
  14. #34  
    http://www.precentral.net/palm-ceo-e...-pre-investors

    * On the issue of PATENTS, Colligan made sure to note that there are no pending legal actions with Apple right now. More pointedly, he noted that Palm has 15 years worth of patents (over 1500 of them in total) and that in patent fights often go like this:


    The reason you do that is to have a defensive position. It's like two little porcupines going around, and you don't want to touch each other because you might get stung. You peacefully coexist and everything's OK and you keep working together. We're very respectful about people's intellectual property, we believe we're huge innovators and have been for a lot of years and that this product has an enormous number of innovations in it. If something does happen there, we do have the portfolio, we think to defend ourselves and to be successful doing that. But nothing's happened to date, so we're really just focused on getting the product out the door.
    Just call me Berd.
  15. gbp
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    #35  
    This will go nowhere, Apple will let PALM introduce the Pre.
    Apple needs the next big thing now.
    IMHO , APPLE dropped the ball when released all the features in one go. They introduced multi touch , proximity censor , browser in one go. If Microsoft were APPLE , they would introduce a killer browser first. Wait and see how the competition catches up. Then add multitouch. Then wait and add proximity sensor.
    Finally introduce the APP store with killer apps.

    But Microsoft is not APPLE, and APPLE needed a breakthrough product to debut its foray into phones.

    Now Palm changed the game by Pre.

    Next big thing is the multi tasking operating system on a phone. Which makes the phone a true computer.

    APPLE will come hard at PALM, Google with their revamped OS.
    Microsoft will play catchup.
    Nokia will sell in third world.
    RIM will loose its shine , or may be bought by someone.
    Motorola will close the shop.

    While SAMSUNGS and LGs will happily manufacture phones on borrowed operating systems.

    Wait , did I miss anything ?
    yep SONY, hmmmmm what can I say.
    SONY is now busy with its TV/PS3/PSP/Camera/Camcorder/Laptop stuff. They will be history too. Though there is a slight possibility of them converting their PSP to a phone.
  16. #36  
    Does anyone know if you can patent, a painfully slow, leak based viral marketing campaign? :-)
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    #37  
    I really like the functionallity of the gesture area below the screen. Does Palm hold a patent for this? Even newer phones don't have this feature.
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