View Poll Results: How Important is NO Micro SDHC expansion to you?

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  • I will wait until Palm releases the next WebOS PRE type of device with on board memory expansion.

    78 21.61%
  • I will buy a Non-Palm device with on board memory expansion.

    23 6.37%
  • I am buying a PRE! 8 GB of on board memory is sufficient for me.

    233 64.54%
  • I am buyiny a PRE! I don't care about large on board memory or expansion

    27 7.48%
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  1. Q
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    #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    My completely uneducated guess is that the onboard media software isn't running as smooth as the other apps, plus there's a good chance Sprint might insist upon their proprietary Sprint Store music and/or video crapware.
    There've been many references to buying/downloading music from Amazon on the Pre--going back to the CES launch presentation. While I'm sure Sprint will work to make their store an option, it won't be the only one for MP3s. Video is still TBA.
  2. #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    How do you know that they're a minority now in 2009?
    You hit the nail on the head, not to mention that PRe ownership average life will be late 2010 (if ti has a one year prodcut life from April 09 to april 2010 and with average ownership being two years)

    What he the claim that it was a "minority" who wanted more memory was, incredibly, a look at amazons sales rank for SD cards. which of course shows lower sales rank for 16 gb cards than 8 or 4gv cards. It is not a serious analogy since :
    a) people are buying those knowing they can swap for a 16gb card in 9 months or so when they cost less than 8gb cards cost today when they are not going to swap a the memory inside their Pre; and
    b) 4 gb cards are being bought now because they are dirt cheap, close to free after rebate. because the manufacturers are dumping stock in 4 gb cards because they known that people will want bigger ones in future.

    It is as if you used higher amazon sales of 512 usb drives compared to 1 gb drives two years go to prove no one would want 1 gb a year down the road

    The next analogy was Apple touch. Where the 8 gb being sales ranked 10th, and the 16 gb being ranked sales rank 12th, was used to attempt to prove that people wanting a 16 were a tiny minotity. This was a logical stretch, and ignores the question of where those numbers will be in the summer given the grwoth in preference and market share of both the 16gb and 32 both of which had much lower relagtive market shares to the 8GB just a few months ago then they have today.

    As far as iphone itself, if you go on iphone forums, you see people asking the question over and over of which to get, and users consistently answering: "I thought 8gb would be enough and I filled it very quickly."

    Iphone users also point to the no brainier which is that the extra $100 (say from $150 for the 8GB to $250 for the 165GB) is less than an ipod and that they found they used it as their ipod instead of carrying two devices.
  3. fredc1's Avatar
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    #163  
    But doesn't the poll for this thread itself show that 70% of the respondents either think that 8g is sufficient or don't care at all about mem or expansion?

    Seems to say to me that those that need more are in a small minority....maybe not tiny...but small enough that Palm doesn't need to cater to them...yet
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    But doesn't the poll for this thread itself show that 70% of the respondents either think that 8g is sufficient or don't care at all about mem or expansion?

    Seems to say to me that those that need more are in a small minority....maybe not tiny...but small enough that Palm doesn't need to cater to them...yet
    Not that polls such as this represent the market place, but I would suggest the 30% is a proportion worth considering.
  5. #165  
    To quote aero in post #106:
    wow the poll had been closer split for some time and we had 48 newly registered "voters" come in vote this poll, in favor of "8 GB of on board memory is sufficient for me. " and never make a prior or subsequent comment? elves?
    The poll was not always this close. Believe someone decided to stack the deck in the kool-aid drinking favor. And the poll statements don't really reflect the situation. I'm sure there are many that will buy it even though 8gb isn't sufficient to fulfill their needs, but it's more than what they have with their current phone. It doesn't mean the Pre meets their needs or they think the Pre has adequate memory. It just means the other options aren't to their liking, they want more than they're current phone, and for now the Pre is the most appealing despite its shortcomings in the memory department.So there should be a category of "I'm buying a Pre, but think the minimal 8gb of memory without expansion is inadequate"


    and the Touch Diamond is the wrong comparison. The Touch Diamond doesn't have a slide out keyboard. Now the Touch Pro does, and it has a microSD card slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pflaumen View Post
    While 8GB may not seem like much, its plenty for me. I use my laptop or ipod for music and movies more often than my phone. Just be glad this isnt the touch diamond with 4GB
    Last edited by crogs571; 02/25/2009 at 11:10 PM.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    How do you know that they're a minority now in 2009?

    I see quite a few people still using hard drive iPods, meaning 30GB or more. I've also seen quite a few 16GB iPhones. I'm not so sure people who carry lots of media are such a minority.
    Hard drive iPods still do sell well. It's never been Palm's intent to try and grab that market any more than it has been Apple's, which is why they both are offering flash memory phones as their flagship model.

    But even if you leave that in the equation, we can see that the EIGHT gigabyte iPod touch is Amazon's number one seller of all MP3 models, and EIGHT gigabyte (or less) devices take up THIRTEEN of the remaining 19 spots in the Amazon top 20 MP3 sellers.

    That's the bar these days. Palm hit it.
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, not to mention that PRe ownership average life will be late 2010 (if ti has a one year prodcut life from April 09 to april 2010 and with average ownership being two years)
    And of course, Palm won't release another handset in the 1.5-2 years interim, yes?

    What he the claim that it was a "minority" who wanted more memory was, incredibly, a look at amazons sales rank for SD cards. which of course shows lower sales rank for 16 gb cards than 8 or 4gv cards. It is not a serious analogy since :
    a) people are buying those knowing they can swap for a 16gb card in 9 months or so when they cost less than 8gb cards cost today when they are not going to swap a the memory inside their Pre;
    Wow....your argument is based on you knowing the thoughts of millions of people. And you say I am not making a serious argument? I'm talking figures...you are guessing.

    and
    b) 4 gb cards are being bought now because they are dirt cheap, close to free after rebate. because the manufacturers are dumping stock in 4 gb cards because they known that people will want bigger ones in future.
    If price was the primary consideration, then why is the top-seller an EIGHT gigabyte SDHC card and not a 4 gigabyte one? Why is the number two an EIGHT gigabyte microSDHC card? Your position doesn't hold up to even the barest bit of scrutiny.

    It is as if you used higher amazon sales of 512 usb drives compared to 1 gb drives two years go to prove no one would want 1 gb a year down the road
    No, that wasn't my point at all, but explaining things to you takes lots of posts. Not an insult. Just the way it seems to be.

    The next analogy was Apple touch. Where the 8 gb being sales ranked 10th, and the 16 gb being ranked sales rank 12th, was used to attempt to prove that people wanting a 16 were a tiny minotity. This was a logical stretch, and ignores the question of where those numbers will be in the summer given the grwoth in preference and market share of both the 16gb and 32 both of which had much lower relagtive market shares to the 8GB just a few months ago then they have today.
    Here we go again. I'm talking numbers in the PRESENT....factual things. You are talking guesses in the future....NON-factual things.

    But you're right about one thing: I DID ignore the "question" of where those numbers will be in the summer and beyond because...

    A) That has no bearing on my point about the market as of today.
    B) No one knows what those numbers will be. And it's so interesting that you mention "market share" twice when you previously dismissed it as a nigh meaningless metric when I quoted Windows Mobile marketshare to prove that mobile OS was in decline compared to RIM and Apple.

    But I'm used to you ignoring the facts that contradict your arguments, which are pretty much all of them, and then going with hunches, guesses, and wishes to support them.

    As far as iphone itself, if you go on iphone forums, you see people asking the question over and over of which to get, and users consistently answering: "I thought 8gb would be enough and I filled it very quickly."
    And anecdotal evidence like that is no evidence at all. Some posts on some forums said something? Well, I guess that's a fact for all people who own that product. Why do we have science again?

    Iphone users also point to the no brainier which is that the extra $100 (say from $150 for the 8GB to $250 for the 165GB) is less than an ipod and that they found they used it as their ipod instead of carrying two devices.
    What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
  8. #168  
    It's actually an interesting argument. You are struggling, but you've managed to put together a very impressive OS and have time to come out with one device to showcase it and save the company.

    You've managed to put many features on it, but what to do on the flashdrive? Sd slot? 8gb? 16gb?

    I really have no clue on cost for palm with the 8 vs 16. I'll just assume its significant for now.

    Mikah makes good points in that 8gb is the best seller. Not sure if its the best revenue or profit item..but volume wise it is in sales.

    Others say 16gb is the new standard and will be pushed to 32 later. Well right now, 16gb is not so much the standard, but what the max upgrade is...but when the Pre is announced it may very well be the standard.

    A variable comes in to play though. Palm, as mentioned before, is saying very little about movies, video and song and whole experience even though their actions (putting the jack on, expanding the screen and resolution, having better media player on the device, offering amazon music store) cry for it.

    Some even say that's not their focus. Not sure why it wouldn't, but maybe that goes along with their decision for 8gb as perhaps they won't promote the multimedia that much.

    But..while looking to see what sells a lot and this line of thinking that its first an organizer may look and sound good...its not reality. Or at least it doesn't fit what people perceive.

    So while there may be a good case for having 8gb (vs 16), the reasoning isn't going to trickle down well to the reviewers or to the masses. It just isn't. It'll be a notch in every con column. It WILL influence people not to buy it when they see something else having 16/32gb options. Sometimes you can't go with what looks good on paper, but use common sense instead. Storage is a number that influences buyers just as megapixels does in cameras. Even if it shouldn't.. But one thing we don't know is how it would affect the price...if having 16gb puts it at an insane price..then their decision was easy..

    Regarding the sd slot...some on here are very upset. My thinking on that is if palm wants to differentiate the Pre from the wm Treo Pro, it needs to start somewhere. I think palm would come out with a more business oriented webOS device later. It'll be interesting to see how the webOS vs wm thing will play out later with palm.
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    So while there may be a good case for having 8gb (vs 16), the reasoning isn't going to trickle down well to the reviewers or to the masses. It just isn't. It'll be a notch in every con column. It WILL influence people not to buy it when they see something else having 16/32gb options.
    I simply do not agree with this. The Touch Diamond was released AFTER Apple started offering 8GB and 16GB iPhones, and not only did HTC sell millions of them, but plenty of the positive reviews made no bones about the 4GB whatsoever (e.g. Phonearena.com, InfoSyncWorld).

    There are almost no CDMA phones that come with 8GB built in, and there are none at all on Sprint. This is going to be a plus, and a differentiator when people are in a Sprint store or on the Sprint website, which is where the majority of them will be sold.

    It will stand out among most of the phones at Best Buy as well. And Palm will start offering other WebOS phones with different/more memory capacity as soon as they possibly can.

    Sometimes you can't go with what looks good on paper, but use common sense instead. Storage is a number that influences buyers just as megapixels does in cameras. Even if it shouldn't..
    Yes, and onboard storage influences them moreso than expandable (if the market leading phones are any indication). People looking at the iPhones see 8 or 16GB, and they know virtually no other phones have more than half a GB onboard. It's an easy plus in the Apple column. Well, the Pre is one of two CDMA phones in America that have significant gigabyteS (plural) onboard, and it'll be the only consumer-oriented flagship with this capability. It's a plus, not a minus.
  10. #170  
    If you listen to palm they are going between the iphone and BB and 8gb does that so you have a point. It remains to be seen how reviewers will treat it because at that time the new iphone and storage specs will be known. The touch diamond didn't invite the iphone comparisons like the Pre will by virtue of having multitouch, capacitive screen, etc.
  11. #171  
    well no fooling hard drive based DMP's still sell well. Flash memory in HD sized capacities wouldn't even be in the ballpark price wise. And you can only make an HD so small which just wouldn't work in a phone unless you wanted something the size of a Kyo 6035. And why don't you drop the word ipod once in awhile. Just because other DMP's aren't holding the top spot, they still sell fairly well, and Palm would be lucky to take numbers away from any of them, not just ipod. There is plenty of other business to grab out there while hopefully taking little nibbles out of Apple. So while the comparisons are inevitable between the Pre and iPhone, I would think it's rather shortsighted to truly just market against it. I highly doubt any of the other DMP companies think they're going to knock off Apple.

    And you sure like to skew your research in your favor. Why include all players. Flash players are a specific market. If you go to amazon and look up flash media players and sort via bestselling, the 16gb Touch is #2 and the 32gb Touch is #4. Also in the top 20 are three Sansa models (well 4 including the Clip, but that is music only). None of which have over 4gb on board. The kicker though is all have expandable storage. At #23 is the 8gb Creative Zen which is also expandable. If you stretch it to the top 50 you have four 16gb Nanos in there along with three more expandable models from Creative and Sansdisk. I wouldn't expect 16gb Nanos to top the charts yet since they haven't been around as long as their lesser models.

    Now lets switch gears and migrate to SDHC cards. Go to electronics and search on "microsdhc -reader". #1 seller is an 8gb card. Of course it is since the price drop with the release of 16gb versions. It also stands to reason that people already have onboard memory on their device thus the 8gb is augmenting the onboard memory to create more than 8gb. 16gb cards are fairly new and comparatively expensive yet a 16gb card comes in at #3. In fact 8 and 16gb cards account for 7 of the top 10 and 10 of the top 15. Safe to say people wanting more memory go way beyond the minority you mention here. Now lets click on what people buy when they buy these cards. They're either buying the devices below or accessories for the devices below.

    Nokia E71, BB Curve, HTC Fuze, BB Bold, Samsung Eternity, Sansa Fuze, Treo Pro, HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia, Sony Experia X1, HTC G1.

    So all those people want at least 8gb on their phone. Might they want 16gb? Probably, but doubling the memory for tripling the cost isn't necessarily feasible for many. They also know card prices will drop in time since 16gb is new so they'll live with 8gb for now.

    And this is just Amazon. Go to deal sites like fatwallet and slickdeals. Deals for 8 and 16gb cards always have a lot of traffic and the good deals on them often sell out. Same goes for music players. So if you want to continue the armchair marketing, I think these users are far from the minority you like to point out.

    We can go over to buy.com where the 4 & 8gb expandable Sansa Fuze outsell the 8 & 16gb Touch.

    Apple also debuted with multiple sizes of iphones, Palm is not. They might follow, but this is their "flagship" model. Why come out with what was status quo six months ago and slowly but surely falling behind. I'm sure if we did a best seller search of media players on various websites (amazon, newegg, buy, and so on) a couple months from now, 16gb would be more prominent than it is now as would sales of 16gb cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Hard drive iPods still do sell well. It's never been Palm's intent to try and grab that market any more than it has been Apple's, which is why they both are offering flash memory phones as their flagship model.

    But even if you leave that in the equation, we can see that the EIGHT gigabyte iPod touch is Amazon's number one seller of all MP3 models, and EIGHT gigabyte (or less) devices take up THIRTEEN of the remaining 19 spots in the Amazon top 20 MP3 sellers.

    That's the bar these days. Palm hit it.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    well no fooling hard drive based DMP's still sell well. Flash memory in HD sized capacities wouldn't even be in the ballpark price wise. And you can only make an HD so small which just wouldn't work in a phone unless you wanted something the size of a Kyo 6035. And why don't you drop the word ipod once in awhile. Just because other DMP's aren't holding the top spot, they still sell fairly well, and Palm would be lucky to take numbers away from any of them, not just ipod.
    It's likely that the Pre will, just as any MP3-playing phone with significant hard drive capacity would. If I could've gotten an 8GB Pre months ago, I probably wouldn't have bought the iPod Touch I have. But Apple is the comparison everyone else will make, so there's no need for Palm to make it nor for Palm to try comparing Pre against other MP3 players.

    And you sure like to skew your research in your favor. Why include all players. Flash players are a specific market.
    How am I skewing anything in my favor? I quoted from all MP3 players to have the most wide-reaching sales data available in this thread. But if you restrict it to flash-based players, nothing changes. The EIGHT gigabyte iPod Touch is still the best-selling model, and of the 19 remaining slots, THIRTEEN of them are EIGHT gigabyte (or less) capacity models....which is identical to what I said elsewhere the general MP3 player top 20 list as well.

    The point is whether you include HDD players or not, EIGHT gigabyte is the bar, and Palm hit it. Very few phones include that these days, almost no CDMA phones do, and NO other Sprint phones do. So it is positioned well, and I commend Palm for doing so.

    If you go to amazon and look up flash media players and sort via bestselling, the 16gb Touch is #2 and the 32gb Touch is #4. Also in the top 20 are three Sansa models (well 4 including the Clip, but that is music only). None of which have over 4gb on board. The kicker though is all have expandable storage. At #23 is the 8gb Creative Zen which is also expandable. If you stretch it to the top 50 you have four 16gb Nanos in there along with three more expandable models from Creative and Sansdisk.
    As I told Aero, capacity does not equal usage, and lack of capacity does not equal crippling. Those Sansa models might have sold because people intended to use the expandable storage and did...OR they might have sold because Costco or Wal-Mart sells them for $50 which is dirt cheap, and people that price conscious have no intention of spending one additional cent on SD cards. We simply cannot know. So it's pointless to count a 4GB MP3 player as anything other than a 4GB MP3 player.

    Phones that have SD slots operate the same way. Saying an SD slot gives people an option for expandable memory is no different from saying Apple gives people an option by releasing an iPhone with 16 or 32GB. You're going to have to pay for it either way. The new handset will cost more but that is because it includes more. People seem to have no problem with that idea because the company following that business model is decimating the companies following the SD slot business model. Is it any wonder why Palm went in another direction for this last hurrah flagship release that they are staking the future of the company on?

    Now lets switch gears and migrate to SDHC cards. Go to electronics and search on "microsdhc -reader". #1 seller is an 8gb card. Of course it is since the price drop with the release of 16gb versions. It also stands to reason that people already have onboard memory on their device thus the 8gb is augmenting the onboard memory to create more than 8gb.
    We have no idea whatsoever how the usage of the cards breaks down, so this point is moot. If they're used for digital cameras, there is almost no onboard memory available. Same for phones. It only applies to some MP3 players, almost none of which are top-sellers, and their combined marketshare is nothing compared to Apple.

    16gb cards are fairly new and comparatively expensive yet a 16gb card comes in at #3. In fact 8 and 16gb cards account for 7 of the top 10 and 10 of the top 15. Safe to say people wanting more memory go way beyond the minority you mention here. Now lets click on what people buy when they buy these cards. They're either buying the devices below or accessories for the devices below.

    Nokia E71, BB Curve, HTC Fuze, BB Bold, Samsung Eternity, Sansa Fuze, Treo Pro, HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia, Sony Experia X1, HTC G1.
    Wouldn't this be expected as the most popular microSD devices are phones? That's not news. But 8GB is the current bar. Onboard storage is the most prominent and obvious differentiator hardware-wise with the rest of the market (well, you can argue capacitive touch screen, too, but it's a lot harder to get that across to the layman than 8GB of onboard memory).

    So all those people want at least 8gb on their phone. Might they want 16gb? Probably, but doubling the memory for tripling the cost isn't necessarily feasible for many. They also know card prices will drop in time since 16gb is new so they'll live with 8gb for now.
    This is all speculation about an unknown number of people. Doesn't mean too much.

    And this is just Amazon. Go to deal sites like fatwallet and slickdeals. Deals for 8 and 16gb cards always have a lot of traffic and the good deals on them often sell out. Same goes for music players. So if you want to continue the armchair marketing, I think these users are far from the minority you like to point out.
    That's more anecdotal evidence regarding an unknown number of people using these cards for...well, could be a lot of different things. Again, it just doesn't mean much.

    We can go over to buy.com where the 4 & 8gb expandable Sansa Fuze outsell the 8 & 16gb Touch.
    And we can look at all MP3 players marketshare stats that cover all retailers and see that Apple crushes the rest of the market, buy.com be damned.

    Apple also debuted with multiple sizes of iphones, Palm is not. They might follow, but this is their "flagship" model. Why come out with what was status quo six months ago and slowly but surely falling behind.
    But it is not falling behind. It is including 8GB on a phone which almost nobody else does. Say it with me. Capacity does not equal usage. Centros and Treos have headphone slots on them. But they require very specific adapters to work with regular headphones, and thus many people (myself included) have been discouraged from using their units as MP3 players. The same is not true for iPhones because everything you need (software, capacity, regular headphone adapter, headphones) comes WITH the device. Thus the devices being used differently. Thus Apple now being the number one music retailer as well as having the number one selling phone. Capacity does not equal usage.

    Every TV set is capable of receiving digital signals once you add a set top box. But the federal government did not assume that people would quickly buy these set top boxes, switch over in one monolithic move, and then free up the analog spectrum for usage. Because they know that capacity does not equal usage. So they had to literally mandate by law that people with analog TVs buy these boxes (with the help of federal coupons) in order to transition people over, and even after all of that...the transition to digital TV is STILL being done piecemeal after having been delayed several times. The amount of Sirius/XM capable radios in existence FAR exceeds the number of Sirius/XM subscribers. Capacity does not equal usage. And More importantly, potential capacity is not capacity.

    To act as if Palm is falling behind because they are not matching or exceeding the POTENTIAL capacity ceiling of phones on the market is ridiculous. Palm is EXPONENTIALLY ahead of the actual capacity that almost every other phone on the market ships with and they are EQUAL to the current bar of portable MP3 players and expansion cards currently purchased. That is an excellent position for a new flagship product to be in. When that position changes, Palm should release additional models that put it right back there. But for the timeframe they are launching in, they're beating the ACTUAL specs of almost everything else out there.

    I'm sure if we did a best seller search of media players on various websites (amazon, newegg, buy, and so on) a couple months from now, 16gb would be more prominent than it is now as would sales of 16gb cards.
    Maybe. Maybe not. It's another guess that's as valid and meaningful as Pre release dates guesses.
  13. fredc1's Avatar
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    #173  
    The passion with which you guys are debating this is quite interesting. I'm not sure what is compelling anyone to be so dramatic or sarcastic about whether or not Palm should have included 16gb or 8gb with or without an SDHC expansion.

    But, I consider myself pretty much a normal user of my 755p (in the past I've had the 300, 600, and 650) and I have 3 twenty-something children with the same devices and history. We have progressed along from smaller cards up to 8gb cards, not so much because we really needed the space, but just because we could and the cards were relatively cheap. I was the first to get an 8gb card, and to be honest, my 3 kids were quite happy with 4gb, since they had over 400 songs each and a several dozen pics. I bought them 8gb cards, and while they were thankful, it wasn't like they had all this pent up demand.

    If 16gb or 32gb cards were available cheaply enough, I would certainly buy them. But, I'll still buy a Pre with only 8gb and no expansion. I have over 1000 songs on my 755p and that is plenty. And it seems plenty for my kids as well.

    While I am sure that there are some users who really need 16gb or more, I still don't beleive Palm made a mistake by only including 8gb on the Pre. While I too will be whining a bit when I buy the 8gb model and then shell out another hundred bucks down the line for the 16gb model, that's exactly what will add to Palm's profits, and that is the only focus they should have if they want to turn their company around.

    It seems to be one of those universal laws of human nature that people will always want to store an amount of "stuff" equal to the amount of space available to store it. This applies to closets, shelves, cabinets, garages, you name it.

    I do have some reservations about backups without an SDHC card, but until I have the Pre in my hand and see what my options are, I am not going to worry about it. I've got a PC at home and work, and backing up on either isn't such a chore. Right now I am thinking I could backup to a USB drive through the PC, and carry the USB drive with me on a keychain. If I had some catastrophic failure and was away from my home/work, I could use any available PC to restore my data. And maybe the cloud will be an attractive option for some of the critical data that is urgently needed.

    The fact that there are some users that really need more than 8gb, or that really need SDHC expansion, perhaps only reinforces the correctness of Palm's decision to include only 8gb and no expansion on the initial release. They will sell a lot of Pres now, and will upsell a lot when they come out with the 16gb and SDHC models. Don't be hating the decision because it will result in you giving them more money....that is their goal...take as much of your money as they can. You can decide to give it to them or not, they are not forcing you.
  14. #174  
    the nice thing is there's no need to be loyal to palm since there is no longer any tie in to the OS and PIM info is handled by a third party. So while we might shell out for the Pre now, the competition will be playing catch up and just make the decision to buy a 16gb Pre less compelling. Right now the Pre could be the best of the bunch, but in 2yrs when we're ready to upgrade again, I'm sure there will be quite a few compelling options that will sway away from Palm.

    and does it really matter the difference between the memory you have and the memory you use? If more people are willing to buy a 16gb or expandable device over 8gb, regardless of whether or not they use it to its fullest; then why would you not make it? I would think buying more memory than you need would be more of an impulse buy in the beginning, buying a larger card down the road will most likely be out of necessity.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    And of course, Palm won't release another handset in the 1.5-2 years interim, yes?
    The Pre has to compete against competition released this year has 16 GB on board or 32gb user salable.

    Your constant refrain that it is ok to compete against memory numbers from two years ago is stunning.

    You are struggling now, your cites of amazon were totally debunked, Your cites of the SDHC actually prove what everyone else is saying and debunk what you are claiming they represent

    You haven't presented a single fact in your arguments., you mak up claims with no numbers and when presented with numbers ignore them [/QUOTE]
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    and does it really matter the difference between the memory you have and the memory you use?
    Bingo You focused on the gaping hole in the argument for the forced low capacity and leaving out key user scalablity/

    Even though Palm is going up agaisnt 16 gb in competitors (iphone 16 is $250 at best buy) People go for more capacity than they currently sue because they now know they keep increasing in needs. They have learned they rapidly fill up storage.

    Don't forget the average usage for even early buyers of Pre if it comes out in June will be: June 09 to June 2011

    Smart people always buy with scalable memory.
  17. #177  
    the other flaw here is all the iphone talk. it is all common knowledge that apple has a lion's share of the market. whoopidee doo. they'll still have a lion's share after the Pre is introduced. The Pre could be a great upsell to all the people buying music and text oriented phones. People that might be outgrowing them or entering the workforce and have need of a more functional device. People that are carrying around flash players and phones and want to converge. The sight has been lost that these are convergence devices. Every comparison gets made to one thing and everything else is quickly dismissed. Heck, why do companies even bother making products if they are not going to sell better than an ipod or iphone? seriously, they should just quit now and take up golf. Palm should be trying to woo people away from many other products besides the iphone.

    In regards to the uses of microSD cards, their primary uses are in phones. They initially drove the market for them. MP3 players followed suit. So phones and MP3 players. Sounds like products Palm would like to convert people away from The one obvious point with microSD cards is more than likely, they are not Ipod/iphone owners as they have no need for them. they most likely wouldn't be camera owners as the only reason to use a mSD card w/adapter in a camera would be to put the card in their portable device for viewing and upload. So they wouldn't likely have an iphone or ipod either.

    Also the idea that people are buying 2, 4 & 8gb sansas with mSD cards isn't speculation. Amazon has the 'what people buy who buy this product' section which if you click on mSD cards and expandable Sansas they show up there. So that means people that are buying one are buying the other. I know it's such a stretch to make that correlation because seriously, if I'm buying an expandable mp3 player and mSD card together, I could be using that card for just about anything. Maybe a have a woobly table that needs fixing.
  18. fredc1's Avatar
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    #178  
    I remain confused about the two sides to this argument. The voices (like mine) that support Palm's decision to go with an 8gb device and no expansion seem to be saying that 1) 8gb is enough for most, but not all, users, 2) Palm will sell plenty of them to its target audience, 3) Palm will likely release 16gb or expandable devices in the future to satisfy those who demand more memory, and 4) the net result is that Palm will have a successful future and a profitable enterprise.

    Are those opposed saying that 1) almost everyone now thinks that 8gb is not enough, 2)there will not be sufficient demand for the Pre at 8gb, 3) the release of future larger capacity Pres is irrelevant as it will be too late and too little, and 4) the Pre will be a failure and Palm is doomed?

    I'm not sure any of us has all of the details surrounding the market surveys, focus groups, cost variables, production capacities, and business outcome modeling that resulted in Palm's design decisions. But we would all be foolish to think they purposefully made a decision that was contrary to what they felt was best for the long term success of their business.

    If you are PO'd that Palm didn't give you 16gb w/SDHC Pre as the initial offering right off the bat, you are entitled to your feelings. But it is kind of silly to extend that feeling to a conclusion that Palm made a critical error and their decision will cost them significant profits. And if you don't care about their profits, then you and Palm have decidedly different points of view on what is important and what is not.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But even if you leave that in the equation, we can see that the EIGHT gigabyte iPod touch is Amazon's number one seller of all MP3 models, and EIGHT gigabyte (or less) devices take up THIRTEEN of the remaining 19 spots in the Amazon top 20 MP3 sellers.

    That's the bar these days. Palm hit it.
    Once again, PRICE is why 8GB sells. Many people think 8GB is enough to get them the player they want at the lowest price. But the problem is, the bar has been raised by several manufacturers lowering the price on 16GB. Plus flash memory itself comes down a lot within a year it seems. The prices are coming down and when they see that they can get 16GB at a low price, what do you think people will go for?

    Also some of those 8GB players have expandable storage, so you add a somewhat cheap but good performing 8GB card online and now you have 16GB without paying too much.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    The Pre has to compete against competition released this year has 16 GB on board or 32gb user salable.

    Your constant refrain that it is ok to compete against memory numbers from two years ago is stunning.

    You are struggling now, your cites of amazon were totally debunked, Your cites of the SDHC actually prove what everyone else is saying and debunk what you are claiming they represent

    You haven't presented a single fact in your arguments., you mak up claims with no numbers and when presented with numbers ignore them
    I finally figured out why you don't "mak" any sense. English is your second or third language. That's cool. Just sit back and enjoy the show, ok?
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