View Poll Results: How Important is NO Micro SDHC expansion to you?

Voters
361. You may not vote on this poll
  • I will wait until Palm releases the next WebOS PRE type of device with on board memory expansion.

    78 21.61%
  • I will buy a Non-Palm device with on board memory expansion.

    23 6.37%
  • I am buying a PRE! 8 GB of on board memory is sufficient for me.

    233 64.54%
  • I am buyiny a PRE! I don't care about large on board memory or expansion

    27 7.48%
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  1. #81  
    I mentioned that too about being able to view photos from the camera on the phone. Also nice to be able to then upload it to flickr, facebook, or any other online site without using your pc. Witha a couple 8gb mSD cards and their adapters, it's easy to go from camera to phone.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  2. #82  
    Assuming you have a microSD digital camera, of course. But we could do this all day. The Pre can't be everything to everybody, regardless of what they equip it with.
  3. #83  
    No memory card--deal breaker. I have a 32gb card now that makes my Palm a great Ipod substitute. I'm not giving that up for anything. And for that matter--a micro sd card is not what I want either. I want SDHC compatibility.
  4. #84  
    Pretty much comes with just about every mSD card out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Assuming you have a microSD digital camera, of course. But we could do this all day. The Pre can't be everything to everybody, regardless of what they equip it with.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Pretty much comes with just about every mSD card out there.
    I guess it's a good thing cameras don't use other media like xD, CompactFlash, or Memory Stick, then. You sure are smart, buddy.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Assuming you have a microSD digital camera, of course. But we could do this all day. The Pre can't be everything to everybody, regardless of what they equip it with.
    No, but it might at least use a standard format that would INCREASE compatibility rather than DECREASE it. That would be normal sized SDHC, which is hardly long in tooth, the 32gb just having hit the market last year, and the micro SD is clearly inferior, not handling that capacity, at least at the moment.

    So what should Palm do? Adopt the worst solution that fits in the least devices and has the least capacity? Well, they've never been one to worry much about compatibility. Speaking as someone who has been upgrading since near the beginning, every new upgrade would make every accessory I had obsolete, as connectors didn't match, etc.

    If they can manage to come out with a PRE that has 64 gb storage, maybe it won't matter, but until such happens, no card, no deal, and I'd really prefer an SD normal sized card. Just spent hundreds of bucks for the 32gb--and I'm not throwing it away any time soon.

    EVEN WITHOUT the issue of extra storage, having a card is extremely valuable. A card makes it easy to transfer data without having to sync. Sync'ing isn't always available, especially on the road, but most modern computers have built in card readers. This alone is an essential reason to have a card.

    So, if I'm Palm and I'm looking to eliminate reasons for people not to use my device---I'd include a card slot, in particular a normal sized card slot.

    If I have too many sales and don't mind turning off automatically a 1/3rd of my potential buyers--hey, go for it.

    No card, no buy.

    I've enjoyed the pre reviews, but I need to make sure of three things:
    --it works with Mobipocket
    --it works with eReader
    --it has a card slot

    Other things are negotiable, but frankly, I'm pretty happy with my 680. I don't have to be the coolest kid on the block. I yearn for wi-fi and multi=tasking but if the price includes losing any of the 3 items I mentioned, deal breaker. Upgrade=itis is sometimes more trouble than its worth.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    No, but it might at least use a standard format that would INCREASE compatibility rather than DECREASE it. That would be normal sized SDHC, which is hardly long in tooth, the 32gb just having hit the market last year, and the micro SD is clearly inferior, not handling that capacity, at least at the moment.

    So what should Palm do? Adopt the worst solution that fits in the least devices and has the least capacity? Well, they've never been one to worry much about compatibility. Speaking as someone who has been upgrading since near the beginning, every new upgrade would make every accessory I had obsolete, as connectors didn't match, etc.

    If they can manage to come out with a PRE that has 64 gb storage, maybe it won't matter, but until such happens, no card, no deal, and I'd really prefer an SD normal sized card. Just spent hundreds of bucks for the 32gb--and I'm not throwing it away any time soon.
    I completely understand. That's the risks of making an investment like that...you really tie yourself to the format. I personally think Palm is quite wise to stay away from this on their initial WebOS device, but that's strictly my opinion. Nothing wrong with you having yours.

    EVEN WITHOUT the issue of extra storage, having a card is extremely valuable. A card makes it easy to transfer data without having to sync. Sync'ing isn't always available, especially on the road, but most modern computers have built in card readers. This alone is an essential reason to have a card.
    Many modern computers (I won't say most because card readers are super scarce in laptops, and the desktop is dying off slowly) may have a card reader, but ALL modern computers have USB ports which the Pre does.

    So, if I'm Palm and I'm looking to eliminate reasons for people not to use my device---I'd include a card slot, in particular a normal sized card slot.
    I would disagree, and it appears Palm does too. But I respect your perspective.

    If I have too many sales and don't mind turning off automatically a 1/3rd of my potential buyers--hey, go for it.

    No card, no buy.
    Have no idea where you are getting this 1/3rd figure from. Sounds made up.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Have no idea where you are getting this 1/3rd figure from. Sounds made up.
    Turn your eyes upward. Look at the poll on this thread.

    The first two options combined come to about 35% that won't buy the unit without a media slot.

    Card readers, btw, are very small these days and easy to use.
  9. #89  
    SD Cards: canon (including XT, XTi, XS, XSi), nikon (including D40-D90), samsung, kodak, casio, pentax, Olympus, Fuji (see below)

    xD: Fuji... (listens for crickets). Irrelevant anyway as Fuji has adopted SD card standard over the past few years.

    Memory Stick: Sony... (listens for the crickets)

    Compact Flash: Pro level SLR's. Ancient 2mp and below cameras. Not a concern. Highly doubt pros would even do that, though some I know use SD in CF adapters. People using ancient P&S cameras aren't likely to be spending dough on the Pre. But I'm just guessing here. Don't have the research to back that one up.

    wow, one company out of the whole bunch utilizing something other than SD. Man, you sure got me on that one.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    Turn your eyes upward. Look at the poll on this thread.

    The first two options combined come to about 35% that won't buy the unit without a media slot.
    Well, as long as you're being scientific about it...

    Hopefully, Palm will use this forum to focus test more products before they release these sure-to-be-doomed DOA devices on an uncaring world.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    Turn your eyes upward. Look at the poll on this thread.
    The first two options combined come to about 35% that won't buy the unit without a media slot.
    For me, most polls on these forums have no real world value. Unless you're saying only the 160 people that responded to the poll make up the Pre's potential consumer market.
    If you found my post useful then please sign up for a Dropbox Account, I could use the extra 250mb of storage.

    HOW TO: Zip/Unzip via Pre/Pixi using Terminal
    HOW TO: Modify DTMF audio (webOS 1.4.5 or earlier)
    Palm Pre wallpapers
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    wow, one company out of the whole bunch utilizing something other than SD. Man, you sure got me on that one.
    Yeah, these formats are so unused that pretty much every digital camera kiosk in existence has slots for them. It's a good thing that no digital cameras were sold before SD became the leading standard.

    You try so hard...
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    For me, most polls on these forums have no real world value. Unless you're saying only the 160 people that responded to the poll make up the Pre's potential consumer market.
    Maybe, maybe not. But I certainly know personally a lot of users that won't buy a device without a card slot. It certainly seems to be an issue here. When you get a device advertised as a multi-use little computer and people take you up on that and turn it into, say an iPod, they aren't going to be happy being told that buying the new cool device means they can actually do LESS with it. What is more important to me? Having a card with 500 cds worth of MP3s or having multi-tasking? Easy answer for me. I would like the latter, but the former is a deal breaker.

    After all, Palm has been such a marketing whiz lately. They hardly make a misstep, do they? Here was a chance to do something cool that Apple didn't do. THey dropped the ball big time IMHO. We know why iPhone doesn't have a card, don't we? Apple doesn't want to cut into iPod profits. Palm could've advertised this as a multi use device that was an iPod killer as well as an iPhone killer...but oh well. Palm has lots of money. They can certainly afford to alienate customers instead of finding ways to attract new ones from Apple.

    What would be the harm in including a card? Why invent reasons NOT to buy the device?
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. But I certainly know personally a lot of users that won't buy a device without a card slot. It certainly seems to be an issue here. When you get a device advertised as a multi-use little computer and people take you up on that and turn it into, say an iPod, they aren't going to be happy being told that buying the new cool device means they can actually do LESS with it. What is more important to me? Having a card with 500 cds worth of MP3s or having multi-tasking? Easy answer for me. I would like the latter, but the former is a deal breaker.

    After all, Palm has been such a marketing whiz lately. They hardly make a misstep, do they? Here was a chance to do something cool that Apple didn't do. THey dropped the ball big time IMHO. We know why iPhone doesn't have a card, don't we? Apple doesn't want to cut into iPod profits. Palm could've advertised this as a multi use device that was an iPod killer as well as an iPhone killer...but oh well. Palm has lots of money. They can certainly afford to alienate customers instead of finding ways to attract new ones from Apple.
    I'll have to go with Palms current stance on this one, stating that they had a particular form factor they didn't want to deviate from (with their Premier WebOS device), yet they wanted to cram as much technology into it without sacrificing said form factor (and the all important removeable battery). I believe it was something they most likely spent a bit of time debating (this was mentioned in a Tweet I believe) and not something simply erased from the chalkboard as unimportant. I'm sure they already have future WebOS products in the works that will include a memory slot. They'll probably really confuse the naming issue and call it the Pre Pro
    Last edited by NachoB; 02/04/2009 at 10:33 AM.
    If you found my post useful then please sign up for a Dropbox Account, I could use the extra 250mb of storage.

    HOW TO: Zip/Unzip via Pre/Pixi using Terminal
    HOW TO: Modify DTMF audio (webOS 1.4.5 or earlier)
    Palm Pre wallpapers
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. But I certainly know personally a lot of users that won't buy a device without a card slot. It certainly seems to be an issue here. When you get a device advertised as a multi-use little computer and people take you up on that and turn it into, say an iPod, they aren't going to be happy being told that buying the new cool device means they can actually do LESS with it. What is more important to me? Having a card with 500 cds worth of MP3s or having multi-tasking? Easy answer for me. I would like the latter, but the former is a deal breaker.
    HTC is on track to sell 3 million Touch Diamonds, none of which have an expansion card. And that only has 4GB on it, and hasn't been marketed to consumers. There doesn't really seem be any data to back up what you are asserting here, but there's a good bit to contradict it.

    After all, Palm has been such a marketing whiz lately. They hardly make a misstep, do they? Here was a chance to do something cool that Apple didn't do. THey dropped the ball big time IMHO. We know why iPhone doesn't have a card, don't we? Apple doesn't want to cut into iPod profits. Palm could've advertised this as a multi use device that was an iPod killer as well as an iPhone killer...but oh well.
    Well, it's hard to argue with the strategy of basing your "iPhone killing" capabilities on the additional purchase of a memory card (because people have lots of money these days, and dropping a couple of hundred for your handset just ain't enough).

    Meanwhile, the Blackberry Storm took a month just to get to 500,000 units and it has:

    1) Onboard storage
    2) Expandable memory
    3) A huge marketing budget behind it
    4) A much bigger company behind it

    Again...the facts don't seem to like what you are saying.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    16 gig support would be nice, but demographically, the need for that much storage is probably an edge case.
    Not sure the millions of 16 gig iPhone owners would agree.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    For me, most polls on these forums have no real world value. Unless you're saying only the 160 people that responded to the poll make up the Pre's potential consumer market.
    Except you tend to see a lot of the the features mentioned in those polls eventually added. Look at the old discussions on wifi, they mirror this discussions of some people who didn't see a need for wifi saying no one needs it because they didn't see a need for themelves! We all know the serous user benefits of wifi now -- for the same reasons as the makers recognized them.

    So no one is purporting that it is a fully accurate sample, it could be over counting those concerned -- or under counting them.

    But I think we all agree it is a tick in the "con" column of a certain significant number.

    Beyond that Palm is inviting a problematic comparison. Apples description of iphone is: "a revolutionary phone, a widescreen iPod, and a breakthrough Internet device". For over 100 million people buying iphones and ipods, this year alone, one of the prime metric embedded in their minds for advances and value is memory capacity.

    It is like saying "size doesn't matter." OK for some yes and some no, but if you are trying out as a male porn star it is a bit more compelling. You can't say "it dosn't matter" when you are in a milieu where it explicitly matters. I see people saying: "Is that the 8 or 16 all the time."
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Well, it's hard to argue with the strategy of basing your "iPhone killing" capabilities on the additional purchase of a memory card (because people have lots of money these days, and dropping a couple of hundred for your handset just ain't enough).
    Gosh, you can get a 16gb SDHC card for $27 whole dollars. Major investment! If you can't afford that, how can you afford a cell phone?

    As for who else does what with what success---again, the point is, this will clearly alienate some people. And Palm lost an opportunity to differentiate itself and attract those people. It didn't have to go this way.

    Palm has a pretty good chance of going belly up in the near future. No matter how good the PRE is, they h ave a major marketing hurdle and tough competition. So, sure, by all means--find ways to alienate people and lose opportunities to differentiate oneself.

    Brilliant.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    But I think we all agree it is a tick in the "con" column of a certain significant number.
    I don't agree.

    Beyond that Palm is inviting a problematic comparison. Apples description of iphone is: "a revolutionary phone, a widescreen iPod, and a breakthrough Internet device". For over 100 million people buying iphones and ipods, this year alone, one of the prime metric embedded in their minds for advances and value is memory capacity.

    It is like saying "size doesn't matter." OK for some yes and some no, but if you are trying out as a male porn star it is a bit more compelling. You can't say "it dosn't matter" when you are in a milieu where it explicitly matters. I see people saying: "Is that the 8 or 16 all the time."
    That's a prime metric among iPhones. It's not a prime metric versus other phones because almost none have onboard memory of any significant capacity. There's no basis for comparison.

    Pre having 8GB onboard helps, but there's a reason why they spent SECONDS mentioning the storage, and over an HOUR talking about the OS and other features. That is what they are framing the comparison on, and wisely so. You can talk storage all day, but it's not a distinguishing factor. Microsoft's Zune line matches the iPod, model for model, storage for storage. It's also failing and near oblivion (And this started BEFORE iPod Touches were available). That should tell you something.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    Gosh, you can get a 16gb SDHC card for $27 whole dollars. Major investment! If you can't afford that, how can you afford a cell phone?
    It's not about being able to afford it. It's a major annoyance that renders the feature crippled.

    Think about Treos and their MP3 capabilities. They can play MP3s as capably as an iPod or iPod Touch with Pocket Tunes Deluxe installed. VERY few people use them this way, however, because you can't do that out of the box. You have to track down an adapter OR a set of 2.5mm headphones, and whatever headset you pick has to have high enough voltage so that the stereo circuit kicks in, or else you just get mono sound from one ear.

    Making these adjustments to your Treo costs LESS than $27, and they only take a minute to do, however, most people don't do them because it's annoying and not part of the device. That's why Palm wisely switched their latest devices to a 3.5mm headphone jack.

    Now if they were smart enough to do that, why would they be dumb enough to tout "an expandable slot" as a key to making their device "An iPhone Killer"? I mean think about it. It's a ridiculous proposition that would show they haven't grown as a company at all.

    As for who else does what with what success---again, the point is, this will clearly alienate some people. And Palm lost an opportunity to differentiate itself and attract those people. It didn't have to go this way.
    Yes, it did. Palm IS distinguishing itself with 8GB onboard, something that but a handful of handsets have (most of which are barely sold in America).

    Palm has a pretty good chance of going belly up in the near future. No matter how good the PRE is, they h ave a major marketing hurdle and tough competition. So, sure, by all means--find ways to alienate people and lose opportunities to differentiate oneself.

    Brilliant.
    It's so funny that you are asking Palm to differentiate itself by including a feature on almost ever non-iPhone device out there. I don't think you thought this through.
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