View Poll Results: How Important is NO Micro SDHC expansion to you?

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  • I will wait until Palm releases the next WebOS PRE type of device with on board memory expansion.

    78 21.61%
  • I will buy a Non-Palm device with on board memory expansion.

    23 6.37%
  • I am buying a PRE! 8 GB of on board memory is sufficient for me.

    233 64.54%
  • I am buyiny a PRE! I don't care about large on board memory or expansion

    27 7.48%
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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    And this makes the Pre the lowest capacity in its class, six months before and six months after its release
    No, it doesn't. Lowest in potential microSD capacity, yes. But there are other means of potential capacity. I already outlined them for Phone Diva.

    Meanwhile, in terms of actual capacity, it's so far ahead of every phone in its class save for the Omnia and iPhone, it's not even funny.

    I mean, do you guys rank cars by the factory-installed options a dealership offers or do you rank by what you get when you fork over your money and drive away?
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I already outlined them for Phone Diva.
    And itr was thoroughly debunked like all the rest of you examples. Your example set left out iphone? All those HTC? You left our everything in the class.

    It is the lowest in its class for 09 release. Indeed from late 08

    You have all these people debunking your claims and you jsut ignore it.
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Look what happened to the ipod touch figures quoted here someone pointed to them being higher than the 16 gb ipod touch. What the numbers showed is that 16 GB ipod touch market share is growing and the 8GB market share is shrinking relative to each other!
    No, they didn't. Sales ranks don't show marketshare, and Amazon's changes hourly. However, they have consistently shown that 14 out of the top 20 MP3 devices are 8GB and below.

    All the numbers show 16 GB is growing market lower GB are shrinking./

    We one single math challenged person here relentless attacking the idea that people move toward more caciity
    No, the numbers don't show that at all. And honestly, if I was math-challenged, I'd rather be that than unable to express myself clearly or unable to read a page of Amazon.com that clearly contradicts what you think it says. Math can be quickly and objectively corrected. The issues you have are deep and not as easy to treat.
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    No, they didn't. Sales ranks don't show marketshare, and Amazon's changes hourly.t.
    Which is why you cited it and reject the fact that we now knoe you misrepresented what it shows?

    You seem intent on showing people want lower and lower capacity. It is getting funny!!
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    However, they have consistently shown that 14 out of the top 20 MP3 devices are 8GB and below. .
    What you don'tt get and everyone else does is that most of those MP3 players were launched one and two years ago.

    And that the 16 GB is growing relative to 8GB... According to the very amazon numbers you posted.
  6. #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    And itr was thoroughly debunked like all the rest of you examples. Your example set left out iphone? All those HTC? You left our everything in the class.

    It is the lowest in its class for 09 release. Indeed from late 08

    You have all these people debunking your claims and you jsut ignore it.
    What on earth are you talking about? How can you "debunk" that a computer - laptop or desktop - has a much larger hard drive and the Pre can connect and swap files with it via its USB port? There's nothing to debunk. That's a fact.

    You keep repeating lowest in its class, but it's not true. I've already shown it to be so. If you wish to "debunk" that, please list the 2009 devices in the Pre's class that have ACTUAL capacity, not potential, greater than 8GB.

    Also, please put your posts into Microsoft Word before putting them up here. It is becoming annoying to first decode, then reply.
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Which is why you cited it and reject the fact that we now knoe you misrepresented what it shows?

    You seem intent on showing people want lower and lower capacity. It is getting funny!!
    I seriously have no idea what you are saying here. None. If I misrepresented something, quote where I have. That'll be easier to understand.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You keep repeating lowest in its class, but it's not true. I've already shown it to be so..
    Countless people have listed them in the hundreds of posts here and you simply don't read other peoples posts.

    We gave you many examples"

    HTC Touch Pro
    HTC Touch Pro 2
    Iphone 16GB
    Treo Pro

    And about 25 outhers

    Pre is the only one in its class of multimedia smart phones limited to 8 GB launched in 09 (and I even gave some examples of slightly before 09!)
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    What you don'tt get and everyone else does is that most of those MP3 players were launched one and two years ago.

    And that the 16 GB is growing relative to 8GB... According to the very amazon numbers you posted.
    The second generation iPod Touch is the best seller and it launched on Sept. 9, 2008 - a little less than six months ago. That's also according to the "very Amazon numbers" I posted.

    That the 16GB is growing has never been in dispute. Memory only goes up in capacity. But we are talking the here and now, not what will be. That's what you don't seem to understand. At some point, 32GB will be the bar. Who knows after that. So what?
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Countless people have listed them in the hundreds of posts here and you simply don't read other peoples posts.

    We gave you many examples"

    HTC Touch Pro
    HTC Touch Pro 2
    Iphone 16GB
    Treo Pro

    And about 25 outhers

    Pre is the only one in its class of multimedia smart phones limited to 8 GB launched in 09 (and I even gave some examples of slightly before 09!)
    Actual capacit...nevermind. I can't debate with someone who comprehends maybe 50 percent of what they read.

    I just added you to my ignore list. I suggest you do the same for me. Have a nice day.
  11. #231  
    Of those 4, 3 are business class phones which really require a card slot and one is a multimedia phone and is marketed as such.

    If the Pre really aims in between, then 8gb and no card slot isn't a bad compromise. But as much as that sounds good and makes sense, the big question is will 8gb make sense to Joe Blow when he's choosing which phone to buy.

    That question is irrelevant somewhat in a sprint store because Joe Blow won't see any other consumer oriented smartphones to compare. More relevant in a best buy store.
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    As for the iphone, it lacks a real kb. Currently lacks any office apps. Doesn't multitask. Doesn't copy n paste. Relies on itunes. And carries a negative perception in the business world as the iphone is perceived as a kiddie phone.
    And yet it dominates the smartphone market in sales (after Nokia, of course) and comes out on top in surveys like this one: 2008 Business Wireless Smartphone Customer Satisfaction Study. I think you're making stuff up.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I think the tweener niche instead of almost being gone, hasn't even been created. BB tried with the Storm but its a joke. But the potential is there.
    You say this, yet in your last two posts about it you have yet to describe what this niche even is. It's pretty hard to build a marketing plan around a fuzzy Venn Diagram.
  13. #233  
    I'd rather use common sense & experience and not some meaniless survey done by JD power who can't even define who the business class customers are. Besides, the quality of the iphone has never been in question for what limited features it does.

    Again, what the niche is...is this. There are a number of BB users who feel tied to it because it gets the job done with email but is crappy otherwise with its browser and multimedia. There are a number of iphone users who are happy with the multimedia but would desire a real kb and more productive features.

    The Pre aims to handle both ends well. The biggest fear for palm is if apple can add enough business features or BB can add enough multimedia features. BB attempted this with the Storm. The iphone hasn't had to worry.

    This isn't me dictating this. Palm and others have stated their goals. Others have questioned if there's actually people who are in this middle.

    I'll agree with you on one thing. It will be hard to market (you wouldn't go after dumbphone users). Like i said before, you don't have much time to sell it in commercials and selling yourself as the best of both worlds device will be hard. Jack of all trades, master of none..so to speak.

    Perhaps palm has it right at the demos. Marketing should show the phone, concentrate on synergy, notifications, multitasking, webbrowser (have to..web browser is most desired feature imo), and misc such as business apps, multimedia...and go from there.
  14. #234  
    Oh and i like the Venn Diagram remark Perhaps that should be what palm uses as a symbol..lol
  15. fredc1's Avatar
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    #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    They mentioned the Pre holds 1000 tunes? I never saw the Pre marketed that way. When was this? That's the type of marketing they need!!


    Although 1000 tunes usually means the low bit rate ones. 8GB really holds about half that if the bit rate is better.
    I've got over 1000 songs on my 8gb card...with almost 2gb to spare...Most are quite listenable without objectional noise or distortion, considering that most of the time I am listening through my car stereo or headphones outside with lots of background noise anyway. While I am sure at a higher bit rate might sound better under better listening conditions, the mass market mostly wouldn't detect the difference.

    If a newbie non-smartphone user walks into a BB or Sprint store and asks how many songe the Pre would hold...I don't think an answer between 500 and 1000 is going to be that poorly received.
  16. #236  
    please, can we not start on this topic. number of songs is meaningless, and no one should have to re-rip music to make it fit on to a certain space. I rip everything at 256 and up and download at a minimum of 192kb. I'm not about to downgrade it just to fit. Sound quality and one's ear are highly subjective. We all know how much space our music takes up so mfg quoted capacity is completely useless. You might as well talk about battery life with dimness settings on two and every possible thing that can drain the battery is turned off. Most download sites worth their salt don't give you greater than 128kb which is what many mfg capacities are based on.
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    I've got over 1000 songs on my 8gb card...with almost 2gb to spare...Most are quite listenable without objectional noise or distortion, considering that most of the time I am listening through my car stereo or headphones outside with lots of background noise anyway. While I am sure at a higher bit rate might sound better under better listening conditions, the mass market mostly wouldn't detect the difference.

    If a newbie non-smartphone user walks into a BB or Sprint store and asks how many songe the Pre would hold...I don't think an answer between 500 and 1000 is going to be that poorly received.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  17. fredc1's Avatar
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    #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    please, can we not start on this topic. number of songs is meaningless, and no one should have to re-rip music to make it fit on to a certain space. I rip everything at 256 and up and download at a minimum of 192kb. I'm not about to downgrade it just to fit. Sound quality and one's ear are highly subjective. We all know how much space our music takes up so mfg quoted capacity is completely useless. You might as well talk about battery life with dimness settings on two and every possible thing that can drain the battery is turned off. Most download sites worth their salt don't give you greater than 128kb which is what many mfg capacities are based on.
    Most all of my music is 128kb, with a hundred or so less than that and another couple of hundred or so evenly split between 160/192/256/320.

    I'm only saying here that, for me, and it seems for most others as well, 8gb is plenty of room for lots of music and other stuff.

    You seem to have a discriminating taste for high quality music, and there is nothing wrong with that. I understand that completely. (Thirty years ago I was building high end tube stereos with a soldering iron for me and all my friends. The amps sound as good or better than what you can buy today.) But that still doesn't put you in the class of buyers that Palm needs in order to make the Pre an initial success. To satisfy your needs, you will just have to wait for the 16gb, 32gb, or SDHC versions...or buy something else.

    It not a critisizm of you or anyone else that is dissapointed that the Pre isn't going to satisfy your requirements with their first release. It's just that I think Palm may have done the right thing for their own sake. And since no one here is privy to all of the facts that they had at the time they had to finally commit to the specs and begin production, it is kind of fruitless to argue that they made a mistake with as much blind passion as I see in this thread,
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Again, what the niche is...is this. There are a number of BB users who feel tied to it because it gets the job done with email but is crappy otherwise with its browser and multimedia. There are a number of iphone users who are happy with the multimedia but would desire a real kb and more productive features.
    Thanks - that's the most clearly I seen it defined here.
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    Most all of my music is 128kb, with a hundred or so less than that and another couple of hundred or so evenly split between 160/192/256/320.
    128kbps is fine for playing in the car, but if you're going to use a device to play music on a half-way decent system, 256 is the way to go. Add videos and some of your favorite 5+ MP pictures and that 8gb gets filled up in a hurry.

    Phones shouldn't be about compromise any more - that's so 2006!
  20. fredc1's Avatar
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    #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I'll agree with you on one thing. It will be hard to market (you wouldn't go after dumbphone users). Like i said before, you don't have much time to sell it in commercials and selling yourself as the best of both worlds device will be hard. Jack of all trades, master of none..so to speak.
    I think the dumbphone users are exactly where the "fat middle of the market" resides that Palm wants to buy the Pre. I don't think the target "fat middle" is currently buying Blackberries, Iphones, or previous Palm devices. Maybe that is one of the reasons they might have eschewed SDHC cards..as too intimidating to non-geeks. It's the perfect out-of-box experience, no cables, no extra cards, just your phone, the cloud and you. While we might see some of its technical limitations as severe and whine about it's shortcomings, the target audience doesn't have nearly the same perspective and just sees what Palm wants them to see. From their perspective it looks like a winner.

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