View Poll Results: How Important is NO Micro SDHC expansion to you?

Voters
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  • I will wait until Palm releases the next WebOS PRE type of device with on board memory expansion.

    78 21.61%
  • I will buy a Non-Palm device with on board memory expansion.

    23 6.37%
  • I am buying a PRE! 8 GB of on board memory is sufficient for me.

    233 64.54%
  • I am buyiny a PRE! I don't care about large on board memory or expansion

    27 7.48%
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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    OK now you are going to compare Free throw away phones. We are talking about phones launched this year in the product class or most recently of the competition. They ALL, EVERYONE have more memory or scalable memory.

    Your logic has been shown to be reversed as has every single statistic you posted. ALL either non analogous or debunked by multiple posters.

    you don't even get that the ipod touch numbers yo psoted SHOW 16 is moving forward (according to the figures you posted claiming they are not) in market share against the 8gb .
    As you don't seem to be a native English speaker, I'll try to be as concise and polite as possible in my responses.

    My...errr...logic is to simply observe sales stats. They can't be debunked any more than the sun, gravity, or evolution can. These are real things that exist whether you choose to accept them or not. The iPod Touch stats I showed have no numbers save for sales ranks, and the EIGHT gigabyte has not moved from the number one position. The 8 GB microSD is much the same. 8GB devices comprised the vast majority of the top 20 in MP3 player sales. Whatever you think or hope or feel 16GB or 32GB will do at some vague point "down the road" is meaningless. We're talking about facts in the present.

    You don't seem to get that, and I don't know how else to explain it to you.
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    iPhone is obviously the phone to beat right now. 32GB iphone is pretty much assured to be released by July. There's already a 32GB ipod touch, so there's no reason not to. At that time, the pre will still have 8GB. That's 4 times less storage space than the iphone will have.
    Spot on. That is the core of the problem . With these metrics so firmly attached in the buyers minds and with Pre so tied to iphone it becomes a serious tick in the con column.

    All the phones in the same release window and same category have either more storage (double or quadruple) or user scalable (double or quadruple).
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Spot on. That is the core of the problem . With these metrics so firmly attached in the buyers minds and with Pre so tied to iphone it becomes a serious tick in the con column.

    All the phones in the same release window and same category have either more storage (double or quadruple) or user scalable (double or quadruple).
    Sorry, but the only phones "in the same release window" with more actual storage are the Omnia 16GB and the Nokia N97, neither of which have American carrier agreements or even have been released yet. And user scalability is a meaningless metric. It's immeasurable in any broad terms of actual usage.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    As you don't seem to be a native English speaker, I'll try to be as concise and polite as possible in my responses..
    Lol, you have personally insulted more and more people on this thread as yno on takes your argumetns seriously.

    You need to learn math before you instruct in English. Every one debunked your math, it actually proves our point.

    the eight gigbyte ipod touch moved from first position on amazon sales last month to 10th position currently and the 16 gib moved form 21st to 12th position in hte past month as well.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Sorry, but the only phones "in the same release window" with more actual storage are the Omnia 16GB and the Nokia N97,
    LOL, Treo Pro, Treo 800w, HTC Touch Pro HTC Touch pro 2, Apple 16 GB etc etc.

    They are all scalable or have 16 to 32 GB.

    You don't even know what phones are out there in the same class.

    Try and read up
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Squires View Post
    Turn your eyes upward. Look at the poll on this thread.
    The first two options combined come to about 35% that won't buy the unit without a media slot.
    Card readers, btw, are very small these days and easy to use.
    Pretty interesting numbers.
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Lol, you have personally insulted more and more people on this thread as yno on takes your argumetns seriously.
    Are you trying to say "no one" takes my arguments seriously? This is what I am talking about.

    I allotted for the possibility that you might be typing all of your responses on a phone, and thus be more error-prone in an effort to respond quickly. But the continuous broken syntax speaks to deeper language issues. That's why I made the assessment I did. It's not meant as an insult. I tried to phrase it as nicely as I could.

    And I should think that if no one took my arguments seriously, I wouldn't merit lengthy reply after lengthy reply on the tired, beat-into-the-ground subjects. Obviously, they do, and so I do merit these responses which you are only too happy to oblige. I like debate, so have at it.

    When I said you were weaseling out of threads earlier...that was an insult. Me noting that your posts are very hard to read and understand to the degree that English may not be your first language...that is a simple observation.

    Would you mind settling that for me so I can never bring it up again? English your first language or not?

    You need to learn math before you instruct in English. Every one debunked your math, it actually proves our point.

    the eight gigbyte ipod touch moved from first position on amazon sales last month to 10th position currently and the 16 gib moved form 21st to 12th position in hte past month as well.
    I'm sorry, but maybe you are referring to Amazon.org or Amazon.edu. At Amazon.com sales as of this moment at 10:58PM EST, the 8GB iPod Touch is the number one best-selling MP3 player.

    Would you be so kind as to link to what you are talking about? Thanks.
    Last edited by mikah912; 02/26/2009 at 10:07 PM.
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    LOL, Treo Pro, Treo 800w, HTC Touch Pro HTC Touch pro 2, Apple 16 GB etc etc.

    They are all scalable or have 16 to 32 GB.

    You don't even know what phones are out there in the same class.

    Try and read up
    Scalable is potential, not actuality. You have to pay for more memory just like I would have to pay for a Pre with more memory. You pay a lot less because you get a lot less.
  9. fredc1's Avatar
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    #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Palm alienated those who need or want more storage and that number could be significant. Especially if more 16GB and new 32GB phones start getting released within the year, while people are stuck with 8GB on the Pre.
    I don't think at this point that Palm really cares too much about alienating the 20% or so of current smartphone users who need or want more storage. The market they care about mostly consists of those current non-smartphone users who will be attracted by the Pre, and when they hear that it will hold over 1000 tunes out of the box, will gleefully buy it....hopefully by the millions.
  10. #210  
    So how about we count the amount of newer phones that at least OFFER expandable storage up to 16 or 32GB? The Pre doesn't look so hot in terms of storage options then.

    And it's not THAT hard to pop in a card unless you're really lazy. You can even leave the card in the phone if it's tethered to the computer and add files that way. Explorer(not sure about Mac) should see the card or the storage. The only "inconvenience" may be waiting for the card if you ordered online, then putting the card in. But if you never remove the card, there's no more inconvenience.




    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912
    Because the amount of phones that come with less than 1/8th of storage space that the Pre will have are countless. The amount of phones with more storage space than the Pre will have can be counted on one hand.


    "As I said, it's not about price. It's an inconvenience. I want a complete device out of the box."
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    I don't think at this point that Palm really cares too much about alienating the 20% or so of current smartphone users who need or want more storage. The market they care about mostly consists of those current non-smartphone users who will be attracted by the Pre, and when they hear that it will hold over 1000 tunes out of the box, will gleefully buy it....hopefully by the millions.
    They mentioned the Pre holds 1000 tunes? I never saw the Pre marketed that way. When was this? That's the type of marketing they need!!


    Although 1000 tunes usually means the low bit rate ones. 8GB really holds about half that if the bit rate is better.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #212  
    it's not worth the typing and energy expenditure people. He's so focused on the "majority" that he ignores everything in between. His numbers are the only ones that are valid. Whatever numbers we show are purely fictitious, guesstimates or completely unfounded. The kid that got picked on all his life grew up and now enjoys taking pot shots at people in many of his posts and refuses to see any other opinion but his own. He pokes fun at someone who might not have the best writing skills, and he revels in his smugness about his opinion agreeing with the so called majority.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  13. #213  
    The memory issue is yet-another-example of Palm taking the cheap route to the market. Just like the 650 with its limited BT profiles and the 700W with is ridiculously small memory footprint, Palm is throwing away another opportunity to be distinctive.

    For years they've tried to set themselves apart as a high-end communications device, but they always manage to "cheeze-up" several factors on each release to make you question the overall design/quality of a device. They're trying to compete with Apple's market, but they lack the class to do so effectively. So they're doing it again with the Pre and the memory is just the first, apparent example of cutting corners - I predict many more examples will become apparent as real users actually get their hands on the device (probably another reason no one gets to touch the phone in a meaningful way). After all, this is Palm we're talking about.
  14. #214  
    I don't really think they are trying to compete with apple's market. Sure they offer the capacitive screen, webkit browser and multitouch, headjack, and fixed storage...but the similarities end there.

    This is palm aiming a device at what it hopes to be a good sized niche of the market that will grow significantly. They know they can't compete with apple right now if ever. They know they can't compete with BB in the enterprise end (they've the Treo Pro for that). But they do think they can try to find the sweet middle.. A phone that can be more versatile.

    Count me in as one of the niche customers. Iphone like enough but still can be used one handed with a real kb and can handle a variety of tasks.

    And yes, i know Palm has started debate directed at you know who with a few swings by mentioning removable battery. But they will have to point out what makes their phone different.

    I've lost the desire to keep debating the 8gb thing. I think its safe to say that time will tell if they chose right.
  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    So how about we count the amount of newer phones that at least OFFER expandable storage up to 16 or 32GB? The Pre doesn't look so hot in terms of storage options then.

    And it's not THAT hard to pop in a card unless you're really lazy. You can even leave the card in the phone if it's tethered to the computer and add files that way. Explorer(not sure about Mac) should see the card or the storage. The only "inconvenience" may be waiting for the card if you ordered online, then putting the card in. But if you never remove the card, there's no more inconvenience.
    I just don't understand why there's any quibbling over this point. It is a simple matter of physics. (Well, metaphysics as well since so much of this counter-argument is based on future speculation, but let's table that for now)

    Either something IS or it is NOT. When I buy a Pre, it is always a phone with 8GB of storage. It will not exist any other way. When I buy virtually any other phone on the market, it is always a phone with a couple hundred MB of storage. Yes, it is POSSIBLE that I can buy cards to expand the memory, just as I can connect a 250GB USB hard drive to a 8GB netbook and work off that. But it is still an 8GB netbook. No one bills it as a 258GB netbook. No one markets it as such. I can add RAM to any desktop easy enough, but I still purchased a machine with whatever configuration of RAM it came with. No one markets a desktop with 2GB of RAM as having 4GB of RAM simply because it's possible to add another two.

    It is just as possible that I do not buy RAM or do not buy an external hard drive. These are possibilities, not actualities. It's possible that I can win MegaMillions tonight. It's possible I won't see another day on this planet. Possibilities are endless.

    But just as it is possible to add more memory via SD card, it is also possible to access additional storage via cloud storage solutions or via your desktop or via your laptop. And while the Pre will never have more than 8GB at once, I can change the 8GB to be whatever I want to be at any time. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the expandability of other phones because it is reality, and I would be foolish to deny it. You don't seem as open to acknowledging the expandability of the Pre.
  16. #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I don't really think they are trying to compete with apple's market. Sure they offer the capacitive screen, webkit browser and multitouch, headjack, and fixed storage...but the similarities end there.

    This is palm aiming a device at what it hopes to be a good sized niche of the market that will grow significantly. They know they can't compete with apple right now if ever. They know they can't compete with BB in the enterprise end (they've the Treo Pro for that). But they do think they can try to find the sweet middle.. A phone that can be more versatile.

    Count me in as one of the niche customers. Iphone like enough but still can be used one handed with a real kb and can handle a variety of tasks.

    And yes, i know Palm has started debate directed at you know who with a few swings by mentioning removable battery. But they will have to point out what makes their phone different.

    I've lost the desire to keep debating the 8gb thing. I think its safe to say that time will tell if they chose right.
    To be sure, you've noticed how Blackberry is building more and more consumer models and how iPhone has made a concerted effort to move into the business user realm. I think the "tweener niche" you're vaguely describing is almost gone - Palm's about a year late on creating/expanding that particular slice of the pie.
  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    it's not worth the typing and energy expenditure people. He's so focused on the "majority" that he ignores everything in between. His numbers are the only ones that are valid. Whatever numbers we show are purely fictitious, guesstimates or completely unfounded. The kid that got picked on all his life grew up and now enjoys taking pot shots at people in many of his posts and refuses to see any other opinion but his own. He pokes fun at someone who might not have the best writing skills, and he revels in his smugness about his opinion agreeing with the so called majority.
    Wow...melodramatic much? I'll skip the armchair psychology bits as it seems you are projecting more than anything, and this board discourages posting simply to berate someone as you have just done. Instead, I'll address one of the few bits of substance here:

    He's so focused on the "majority" that he ignores everything in between. His numbers are the only ones that are valid. Whatever numbers we show are purely fictitious, guesstimates or completely unfounded.
    I'm not ignoring anything. The whole point of this thread is to scrutinize the arguments for and against, and I have examined, tested, and listened to the viewpoints of "the minority" here at length. I expect the same courtesy returned, and it's disappointing when it doesn't happen. I could just sit back and drop insubstantial, one-paragraph rants that are more about you than the Pre or the iPhone or which amounts of gigabytes are what. But then I'd merely be aping you in the post I quoted above, and that's not much of an example to follow.

    I don't believe that "my numbers" are the only valid ones. But numbers can be countered with other numbers. You brought buy.com sales ranks into the discussion to show Sansa players outselling Apple, and I countered with MP3 market share that show those buy.com ranks are an aberration. "Your" numbers weren't invalid, but merely inconsequential to this discussion when put into context.

    Aero made some claims about Amazon.com, and I linked again to Amazon.com sales ranks and even dated them to show he/she was incorrect. To this day, he/she only underlines their claims, and refuses to link to the site(s) substantiating them.

    Aside from that, much of the counterargument you present is based on guesstimates, and I've pointed that out repeatedly. If you have actual numbers, link to them.

    And please stick to the discussion. I took a tangent about Aero's speaking because it genuinely mystified me, and I seriously asked Aero to clear up the matter so that I would never have to mention it again. If that's mocking or "poking fun" to you, that says more about you than anything else.
  18. #218  
    BB can try but it won't be successful on the consumer end (or in the tweener niche) without a new OS.

    As for the iphone, it lacks a real kb. Currently lacks any office apps. Doesn't multitask. Doesn't copy n paste. Relies on itunes. And carries a negative perception in the business world as the iphone is perceived as a kiddie phone.

    I think the tweener niche instead of almost being gone, hasn't even been created. BB tried with the Storm but its a joke. But the potential is there.
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    BB can try but it won't be successful on the consumer end (or in the tweener niche) without a new OS.

    As for the iphone, it lacks a real kb. Currently lacks any office apps. Doesn't multitask. Doesn't copy n paste. Relies on itunes. And carries a negative perception in the business world as the iphone is perceived as a kiddie phone.

    I think the tweener niche instead of almost being gone, hasn't even been created. BB tried with the Storm but its a joke. But the potential is there.
    Absolutely. And people forget that these are all carrier exclusives. Sprint has a captive audience of 49 million subscribers (Who have already stayed past two iPhones, the G1 and the Storm) . If the Pre can get 5 percent of that, it's a smash.
  20. #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    So how about we count the amount of newer phones that at least OFFER expandable storage up to 16 or 32GB? The Pre doesn't look so hot in terms of storage options then.
    And this makes the Pre the lowest capacity in its class, six months before and six months after its release

    Look what happened to the ipod touch figures quoted here someone pointed to them being higher than the 16 gb ipod touch. What the numbers showed is that 16 GB ipod touch market share is growing and the 8GB market share is shrinking relative to each other!

    All the numbers show 16 GB is growing market lower GB are shrinking./

    We one single math challenged person here relentless attacking the idea that people move toward more caciity

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