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  1. cgk
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       #1  
    We know that there is no intention of supporting desktop sync (beyond the device acting as a mass storage device and you syncing your music and stuff as you would with any mass storage device) but...

    Like the iPhone (when synced with Apple's MobileMe service) and the G1, the Pre is designed to sync not to your desktop or laptop, but to the Web. That includes not just whatever service Palm will offer (the Web OS developer sitting behind me during Palm's demonstration wouldn't say what that might be), but also such popular Web services as Google and Facebook.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010803708.html

    My guess here is that there will be a palm desktop of sorts - but it will be an online yearly fee job. I also think that's the model that other developers will follow for anything that needs a sync - you get the app for free and then pay for the on-line storage. This makes more sense from a business point of view, instead of selling an app once, you get to charge people every year.

    If palm is *really* sensible - the developer partners online apps will be handed via them and a single gateway - so if you want splash id, you sign up via the palm website and so on - it all bolts-on.

    With the paradigm shift that this phone represents, it doesn't make sense for palm (and certainly not to spirit) to let people develop apps that need a desktop sync because it, for wont of a better word, breaks the concept (and doesn't rack up data charges for the carriers or convince you to take an unlimited plan).
    Last edited by CGK; 01/10/2009 at 06:50 AM.
  2. #2  
    I would think there has to be some sort of desktop sync. That would be the only way to get your Outlook data. Not everyone has Exchange. Unless they have something like the Verizon WirelessSync. But, you have to have your computer on for that to update.
  3. cgk
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    I would think there has to be some sort of desktop sync. That would be the only way to get your Outlook data.
    No - Palm have already said there is no desktop sync and the spec for the phone says the following about outlook:

    Available for Exchange ActiveSync only. Requires Microsoft Outlook using Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 with SP2 or Exchange Server 2007. Requires data services at additional cost.
    There is talk in some articles about help getting you data out of old systems - but again, I'm guessing that's to get it out of your desktop and into the cloud - not from the desktop directly into the pre - because if you could do that, you aren't going to need to the data services and it breaks the concept.
    Last edited by CGK; 01/10/2009 at 07:10 AM.
  4. #4  
    Oh man, I missed that. I'm surprised that hasn't been a bigger issue. The average person and many business users (myself included) don't have access to an Exchange server. I guess there are online solutions, but don't others think no Outlook sync is significant?
  5. cgk
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    Oh man, I missed that. I'm surprised that hasn't been a bigger issue. The average person and many business users (myself included) don't have access to an Exchange server. I guess there are online solutions, but don't others think no Outlook sync is significant?

    I think if you don't have exchange, you will be expected to .csv your PIM into gmail or similar.. or the on-line palm desktop? Actually that's another reason not to provide it - to get you to subscribe to an on-line palm desktop and lock you into their devices (like apple).
  6. #6  
    yah, this is huge.

    It's Palm Desktop that's kept me with Palm. Well, I guess it will continue to do so in the form of my Centro though!

    This is the reason I never switched to a Windows version, iphone etc.

    This bites!!!!
  7. cgk
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by SprintTreoUser View Post
    yah, this is huge.

    It's Palm Desktop that's kept me with Palm. Well, I guess it will continue to do so in the form of my Centro though!

    This is the reason I never switched to a Windows version, iphone etc.

    This bites!!!!

    I think the reason for the break is revenue - People wanted a device that they could turn off the data services, sync from the desktop and use all their old apps on. From a commercial point of view, that's a disaster - there is no money in that.

    Palm has a particular problem in that many of their users are so embedded that they purchased all the apps they wanted four or five years ago - many are still using phones that purchased 4 or 5 years ago - that would be a nightmare for the company - a series of users who picked up the phone, turned off the data and never generated any revenue for the carriers or developers.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I think the reason for the break is revenue - People wanted a device that they could turn off the data services, sync from the desktop and use all their old apps on. From a commercial point of view, that's a disaster - there is no money in that.

    Palm has a particular problem in that many of their users are so embedded that they purchased all the apps they wanted four or five years ago - many are still using phones that purchased 4 or 5 years ago - that would be a nightmare for the company - a series of users who picked up the phone, turned off the data and never generated any revenue for the carriers or developers.
    Only the tiniest minority of people are on any limited data or price per byte. Almost everyone is unlimited data. Spritn has millions and millions on plans with unlimited EVDO data with 300 to 500 minutes and unlimited data for as low as $30. Adding Unlimited data to even standard $30 and $40 plans plans was typically $10. I just added a line and unlimited data to my plan for $20 net last week to my family plan. ($10 for line and $10 for unlimited powervison and unlimited text included)
  9. #9  
    I think the Pre will bring in lots of new users who never heard of Palm desktop and wouldn't use it even if they did know what it was. It's aimed at an always connected, social, media craving audience. As an introvert, I see all that social connection and get scared. Palm does say there will be other devices (I assume aimed at different audiences). I think we shouldn't look at the Pre and see it as the only. It's just the beginning.
  10. #10  
    I'm not stuck on Palm Desktop, but I am stuck on Outlook. And without Exchange, it looks right now that I won't be able to sync Outlook. Yeah, I can export the .pst file, but that's a hassle. Come on, isn't Outlook still the standard PIM on the computer?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I think if you don't have exchange, you will be expected to .csv your PIM into gmail or similar.. or the on-line palm desktop? Actually that's another reason not to provide it - to get you to subscribe to an on-line palm desktop and lock you into their devices (like apple).
    Is it assumed that palm would follow a subscription model as opposed to an ad based model (like google)?

    I am not sure I would mind paying a subscription fee (depending on how high it is). That would solve the backup issue that folks are panicking about.
  12. #12  
    I've got no problem giving up all my apps.

    I just want desktop software to manage the good 'ole calendar, Contacts,Tasks and Memos. It was the combination of a PDA and phone that brought me to my first Treo years ago.

    In many ways it does seem that this is more of a social device than a PIM device.

    Well, hopefully there will be other devices.

    For now, the only resemblance to our current devices is the on/off ringer switch.
  13. #13  
    Exactly how am I supposed to get all my outlook information to the "cloud" or the pre? Sorry I guess I'm not as connected and savvy as I thought.
  14. #14  
    Its really easy to get your Palm Desktop Data into Outlook. The old Palm HotSync Conduit can do that.

    Its also easy to get your Outlook data into Google. Google can import your Contacts and Calender quite easily.

    Once the data is in google you are ready to cloud sync to the Palm Pre.

    I'm not sure about notes because I switched over to Evernotes which uses the cloud already and they will have a client for the pre.

    I plan to go the google cloud route and stop using Outlook all together. This the future and I'm excited about it.
    Last edited by rc46; 01/10/2009 at 12:42 PM.
  15. #15  
    with google do you have a copy of your data on your computer that you can read and edit when not connected to the net? likewise on your phone? Tx.
  16. #16  
    wow. this is major. I was absolutely sure I was getting it. but I own a small business and use my centro with outlook (nonexchane - doesn't make sense for size) and I am not going to switch my IT setup for a phone. I will not use google PIMs either because if my internet goes down I can't access my data - emails, contacts, calendar. - no way do I risk that. they are essentially cutting the prosumer/small business customer out of this phone. they expect us to stay with WM I guess . . . if that's the case ill be moving to an HTC winmob device like I was about to do before the Pre announcement. that is sooo dissappointing and I think a huge mistake for palm.

    because this is so outrageously stupid, I want to make sure I understand it. so are u saying that I can't sync my PIM info from outlook to the pre unless I have exchange access?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Its really easy to get your Palm Desktop Data into Outlook. The old Palm HotSync Conduit can do that.

    Its also easy to get your Outlook data into Google. Google can import your Contacts and Calender quite easily.

    Once the data is in google you are ready to cloud sync to the Palm Pre.

    I'm not sure about notes because I switched over to Evernotes which uses the cloud already and they will have a client for the pre.

    I plan to go the google cloud route and stop using Outlook all together. This the future and I'm excited about it.

    Yeah, but what about tasks? Sure, you can go in to the Google Labs option and enable tasks, but it is nothing more than a grocery list program. You can't assign a priority, category, or delegate a task. Serious business users can't really live without the above.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by craigdts View Post
    wow. this is major. I was absolutely sure I was getting it. but I own a small business and use my centro with outlook (nonexchane - doesn't make sense for size) and I am not going to switch my IT setup for a phone. I will not use google PIMs either because if my internet goes down I can't access my data - emails, contacts, calendar. - no way do I risk that. they are essentially cutting the prosumer/small business customer out of this phone. they expect us to stay with WM I guess . . . if that's the case ill be moving to an HTC winmob device like I was about to do before the Pre announcement. that is sooo dissappointing and I think a huge mistake for palm.

    because this is so outrageously stupid, I want to make sure I understand it. so are u saying that I can't sync my PIM info from outlook to the pre unless I have exchange access?
    no what he's saying is that you temporarily create a google acount so you can transfer your files to google. then from google you can transfer your info permantly to your phone.

    Though Chapura was mentioned to be a partner with Palm in the keynote, so most likely they will provide a method to sync with outlook without exchange since that is what they specialize in.
    --Nextel Blackberry 7520 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Sprint Treo 755p -> Sprint Pre
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by craigdts View Post
    wow. this is major. I was absolutely sure I was getting it. but I own a small business and use my centro with outlook (nonexchane - doesn't make sense for size) and I am not going to switch my IT setup for a phone. I will not use google PIMs either because if my internet goes down I can't access my data - emails, contacts, calendar. - no way do I risk that. they are essentially cutting the prosumer/small business customer out of this phone. they expect us to stay with WM I guess . . . if that's the case ill be moving to an HTC winmob device like I was about to do before the Pre announcement. that is sooo dissappointing and I think a huge mistake for palm.

    because this is so outrageously stupid, I want to make sure I understand it. so are u saying that I can't sync my PIM info from outlook to the pre unless I have exchange access?

    I'm with you. If this is the case, this is absolutely crazy. Palm needs to step out of the board room and their cubicles, where they all have access to Exchange server. Just because their IT department spent tons of VC funds to get Exchange server, doesn't mean the small business owner will. It likewise does not mean that the small business owner will just start using Google to manage everything. Look at the tasks, for example. The tasks through Google are a glorified grocery list.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by SedahDrol View Post
    no what he's saying is that you temporarily create a google acount so you can transfer your files to google. then from google you can transfer your info permantly to your phone.

    Though Chapura was mentioned to be a partner with Palm in the keynote, so most likely they will provide a method to sync with outlook without exchange since that is what they specialize in.
    so I would have to buy a 3rd party proram (assuming it can be done) to perform the most basic and important of all syncing functions?

    I've used google PIMs before and when u are constantly using email, calendar etc. like my business requires . . . google cal is slow and annoying. I love the quick zippy response of "un"clouded outlook.

    there is more hidden costs for businesses in switching to google cal. . . that of training employees, etc. in other words productivity loss (and almost everyone knows how to use outlook) also I don't even know about the legality of me putting client data in the "cloud" or 3rd party system that I don't have control over. additionally I fear losing control of client info and contacts to employees if they leave since I don't know how access to google works. google cal seems like a personal solution (thats still not as good as outlook), not business.
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