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  1. Q
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmg_P1OS21 View Post
    I won't miss the stylus (except for games, so if someone develops a Garnet emulator, HOW are we suppose to play certain games?)... otherwise, I use the keyboard and buttons.
    There is at least one stylus out there for the iPhone, so that should also work on the Pre. I'm hoping it'll be precise enough for games, drawing...
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by tj$bags View Post
    I'm really not trying to insult you personally, just that I genuinely do not understand this. ..but what the goof do you need "a couple seasons of 2 TV shows" on your phone for? ...like you would go somewhere and veg out for 4 days watching every episode on a MOBILE PHONE??? cmon....a couple seasons?.....does not make sense to me. I'm just thinking that makes some sense on a laptop with a nice screen, but a mobile phone?
    6 hour cross country plane flights with no access to streaming. Especially when one is cheap and flies Southwest.

    And then of course one has to fly BACK again.
  3. #83  
    One major disadvantage to the lack of a stylus included... I can't tell you how many times having a stylus-pen available in a pinch came in dead handy.

    I mean, as puny as it is, as tough as it is to use to write - it was always better than being caught without a pen in situations where I really needed one.
  4. cgk
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenithNadir View Post
    One major disadvantage to the lack of a stylus included... I can't tell you how many times having a stylus-pen available in a pinch came in dead handy.

    I mean, as puny as it is, as tough as it is to use to write - it was always better than being caught without a pen in situations where I really needed one.
    Get a swisscard.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    Palm was dragged, kicking and screaming, into the world of removable flash memory in the late 1990's. TRG/Handera and Handspring's development of the slots made the necessity of it inescapable.

    Being able to customize expansion size, create removable backups, safely store restorable images, etc. became a norm of mobile computing.

    Now I'm not very clear on what suddenly changed, other than Apple came along and skimped on a few things in interest of "control" ("designed by Apple in California"). I didn't think Palm would be stupid enough to create the backup capabilities of the "Zire" in their "hail mary" device, but here we are.

    I need a device I can hand to the tech monkeys at Sprint and KNOW that I have a full backup of my crucial data regardless of their empty promises.

    Maybe Palm decided their phones will never fail, break or get stolen? Huh?
    +1 Well put
  6. #86  
    I am personally not that worried about the lack of expansion capability. I am confident that even if an application for backing up my data doesn't already exist someone will write one soon after launch and I will be able to back up my info on my desk top PC or into the cloud.
    Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 600 (T-Mo) --> Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 NC (Cing) --> Treo 680 (Cing) --> Pre (Sprint)

  7. #87  
    Styli are a relic of a time when designers didnt think they had to put in the work to design finger friendly, intelligent interfaces. They are now in the twilight of their existence and I for one, am happy to see the back of them.

    They will survive in some niche capacity as they are popular in Asia for character entry but thankfully, their time in the mainstream is over.


    The omission of microSD is a foolish but understandable choice. People complaining about backup are on the wrong track. It will be trivial to download a self executing bundle containing a backup image of the device from the cloud. I expect to see such an app promptly. Get a new Pre. Download your image and you will be back up and running.

    The lack of microSD is an issue because it is limiting consumer choice. While many people would be fine with 8gb of storage those who are not have no option to pay the difference for a bigger card and upgrade. There is no upside to limiting choice in this matter. I do not believe the argument that it was impossible to design a memory slot into the Pre. I do believe that they chose not to make the effort to do so because limiting expandability builds obsolescence into the device and compels users to upgrade sooner then they might otherwise.
    Last edited by bryanharig; 02/02/2009 at 09:38 AM.
  8. #88  
    LOL that you are calling Asia a "niche"!

    Also: how long will it take to download 8GB of info from the cloud, even with EVDO Rev A?
  9. #89  
    For all the impact those phones will have on the ones I use here, it might as well be. Handset makers market different models to different regions.

    If you chose to back up all your media files then it might take you a long time to pull your backup down from the cloud. I dont know why someone would do that though. A full backup of all the non media files on the Pre should be a few hundred MB at the absolute max, probably more like 20-50.

    I used to do something like this 4-5 years ago when I had a WM5 phone. Store a bunch of .cab files in an online file storage service. When I had a hard reset while out and about and lost everything I could just download them and run them to restore my programs.
  10. #90  
    I see your points.

    But I, for one, am interested in apps that can input asian characters, or other things that a stylus can do better than a fingertip. How many other residents of Western countries would also be interested? Maybe a lot. Now that Palm is abandoning them, they might end up on Windows mobile.

    The Pre's market could also be seen as a niche, certainly not appealing to all potential PDAphone buyers.

    Regarding backup of non-media files (yes, you're right, much less than 8GB), still it now takes me a minute or two to restore my Centro's memory from card backup. Backup/restore is bound to be much slower over EVDO. I guess backup could be done in a trickle, so I guess speed would not be a terrible problem. But one would want restores to go much faster. Furthermore, average file sizes tend to get bigger, so this will be even more of an issue in future.
  11. #91  
    I worry about basic info that's part of the Palm OS PIM but not part of a cloud PIM. Memos, tasks, call logs, message database and such. I use Palm Desktop. I don't believe Google or Yahoo deals with them. What happens to them when your phone breaks, dies or gets lost? Of course #3 won't be helped by a card slot. But cloud syncing doesn't help those either. And like others on here, I have hundreds of memos. I also maintain an extensive call log and msg database. Would've hoped that I wouldn't have to rely on connecting to a PC, downloading the individual files, then upload them again to a new unit. That seems like it'll be the only way.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig View Post
    Styli are a relic of a time when designers didnt think they had to put in the work to design finger friendly, intelligent interfaces. They are now in the twilight of their existence and I for one, am happy to see the back of them.

    They will survive in some niche capacity as they are popular in Asia for character entry but thankfully, their time in the mainstream is over.


    The omission of microSD is a foolish but understandable choice. People complaining about backup are on the wrong track. It will be trivial to download a self executing bundle containing a backup image of the device from the cloud. I expect to see such an app promptly. Get a new Pre. Download your image and you will be back up and running.

    The lack of microSD is an issue because it is limiting consumer choice. While many people would be fine with 8gb of storage those who are not have no option to pay the difference for a bigger card and upgrade. There is no upside to limiting choice in this matter. I do not believe the argument that it was impossible to design a memory slot into the Pre. I do believe that they chose not to make the effort to do so because limiting expandability builds obsolescence into the device and compels users to upgrade sooner then they might otherwise.
    I agree with some of your points. The lack of a stylus doesn't bother me since the OS is more finger friendly. However I still don't like the lack of a memory card slot. Part of it is for backing up and restoring. I run backups every night on my Touch Pro and they're over 100mb each right now. That would take quite a long time to upload and download, even over EV-DO Rev A. Since I back up to a card it only takes about five minutes, and only that long for a full restore in case something goes wrong. The other hitch is media. In this day and age it's all about converging devices and 8 gigs really isn't that much anymore. Plenty of people around here have 8 and 16 gig cards for their phones so they can stock up on music, movies, digital books, etc. and that won't be an option for the Pre.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by letsgoflyers81 View Post
    I agree with some of your points. The lack of a stylus doesn't bother me since the OS is more finger friendly. However I still don't like the lack of a memory card slot. Part of it is for backing up and restoring. I run backups every night on my Touch Pro and they're over 100mb each right now. That would take quite a long time to upload and download, even over EV-DO Rev A. Since I back up to a card it only takes about five minutes, and only that long for a full restore in case something goes wrong. The other hitch is media. In this day and age it's all about converging devices and 8 gigs really isn't that much anymore. Plenty of people around here have 8 and 16 gig cards for their phones so they can stock up on music, movies, digital books, etc. and that won't be an option for the Pre.
    I understand your concerns about size. 8GB seems like it will be more than enough for me, but I know for many people it may not be.
    I don't think I quite understand the concerns about backing up on a card though... Why couldn't you just use the phone's usb cable/bluetooth to back up? Wouldn't you have to plug your card into your computer anyway? If so what is the difference? Just that you can drop your card in at any time and get all your info back and that would take too long over the air?
    Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 600 (T-Mo) --> Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 NC (Cing) --> Treo 680 (Cing) --> Pre (Sprint)

  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk5 View Post
    I understand your concerns about size. 8GB seems like it will be more than enough for me, but I know for many people it may not be.
    I don't think I quite understand the concerns about backing up on a card though... Why couldn't you just use the phone's usb cable/bluetooth to back up? Wouldn't you have to plug your card into your computer anyway? If so what is the difference? Just that you can drop your card in at any time and get all your info back and that would take too long over the air?
    As it stands now, I don't need a PC to back up and restore at all. I can back up the entire image of my phone to my MicroSD card in about five minutes no matter where I am or what connection I have. I can restore the same way, even from a hard reset. I'm sure backing up to a PC through USB will be possible at least through a third party app, but it lacks the portability and convenience of not needing a PC which seems to be the whole concept of the Pre in the first place.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by letsgoflyers81 View Post
    As it stands now, I don't need a PC to back up and restore at all. I can back up the entire image of my phone to my MicroSD card in about five minutes no matter where I am or what connection I have. I can restore the same way, even from a hard reset. I'm sure backing up to a PC through USB will be possible at least through a third party app, but it lacks the portability and convenience of not needing a PC which seems to be the whole concept of the Pre in the first place.
    I see.
    Well, maybe there will be a quick way to pull a backup over the air? My not be as fast and it would suck to need to do it if you have a bad/no connectivity for some reason but hopefully you won't have to worry about that
    Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 600 (T-Mo) --> Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 NC (Cing) --> Treo 680 (Cing) --> Pre (Sprint)

  16. cityhopper's Avatar
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    #96  
    If SDHC wasn't going to be a feature of the Pre, maximizing the on board memory should have been a priority. The only other phone I really had interest in is the 800w or a BB; I need a QWERTY board. Nevertheless, I will still probably pickup the Pre and hope that the 8GB suffices.
    Loving technology since Computer Shopper was 300+ pages!
  17. #97  
    Remember when Apple took the floppy out of the iMac? How scared we were that we couldnt get to our data on floppys. Same thing happenned to PC's. Times have changed and floppys have been replaced by MicroSD cards and I'm sure we will find a way to deal without them. Not a deal breaker. Things do change.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by peanuthead47 View Post
    Remember when Apple took the floppy out of the iMac? How scared we were that we couldnt get to our data on floppys. Same thing happenned to PC's. Times have changed and floppys have been replaced by MicroSD cards and I'm sure we will find a way to deal without them. Not a deal breaker. Things do change.
    I disagree. Floppy drives became expendable when CD and DVD-ROM drives became ubiquitous. This is more akin to SD card slots being replaced by MiniSD, MicroSD, then MicroSDHC. With the iPhone and Pre there's no removable storage option at all, it's not like we're forced to use a different format. And unlike with desktops and laptops, I can't increase the storage if I decide 8 gigs isn't enough. I can easily replace my hard drive with a bigger one in my laptop or add extras to my desktop.
  19. Rhody's Avatar
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    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by letsgoflyers81 View Post
    I disagree. Floppy drives became expendable when CD and DVD-ROM drives became ubiquitous. This is more akin to SD card slots being replaced by MiniSD, MicroSD, then MicroSDHC. With the iPhone and Pre there's no removable storage option at all, it's not like we're forced to use a different format. And unlike with desktops and laptops, I can't increase the storage if I decide 8 gigs isn't enough. I can easily replace my hard drive with a bigger one in my laptop or add extras to my desktop.
    There's no removable storage, but there is the cloud.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    There's no removable storage, but there is the cloud.
    That's not the same. Say I'm away from a PC and I do something to my device which completely screws it up. With my Touch Pro, I can do a hard reset and do a complete restore from last night's backup. It takes 5 minutes and I'm back in business. In theory you could do this from the cloud as well, but what if I have weak coverage and I need to download 200 mb to restore my Pre? That will take forever. Local removable storage will always be more reliable and faster until internet connectivity is faster than SD speeds and there's no such thing as a dead spot. And again, what if I want more than 8 gigs of storage?
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