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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59 View Post
    IMHO, those saying they have 10 to 15gb of music and video so they have to have more storage doesn't completely make sense. You can't possibly listen to that amount of music on one trip. Why not put on what you need for the trip and then change it out periodically? When I look at the summary on my 16gb iPhone, I have 4 days of music, a few movies, over 40 apps and still have 6gb left. There's no way I will listen to 4 days of music.
    So you just have music?

    I have been around since the first floppies were 90k (and no hard rives of course), and the transmission rates were 50 and then the 300 baud. I attended FCC hearings where it was explained the fasted data connection any consumer would ever need was 1200, because no human could read an ascii stream faster than that.

    To ask, "how can anyone need more storage(or speed)," doesn't work. A percentage of people need more today, and everyone will need more tomorrow than they can even imagine. That is a constants

    I like the way this question was phrased by the OP. How important to you.

    Let's break downt he reasons for me. some may apply to you and some may not:

    1) Multimedia library. four days of msuinc is one thign, but video, full format, whcih is to say wihtout having to spend the timerunning it through a program to optimize size for the device screen is 2gb/hour. Optimized is 200 to 300 mb/hour. That can fill up fast for certain people and habits/uses.

    2) transport of work files. On some days I am carrying a laptop with 100gb, some days my 250gb passport, some days my usb pen drive, and but also I am quite used to just using my handset to transport or keep work files from one place to another.

    3) work files for use on the phone

    4) apps and their data files. Some apps can be lean, some, like a proper GPS would have data files that are 2gb a piece.

    I think it would be important to me. I also understand Palm has to make business decisions and saving $10 between 8 and 16 gb, or saving $10-$15 and the device volume on a card slot hardware is a tradeoff. treadeoffs exist on every device.

    Trying to rationalize that it isn't needed is kind of silly since I bet within 12 months you are going to see 16gb and or micro sub support in at least one of the next set of devices. we have to see a centro replacement Sprint can sell for $100 as well as a fully business oriented device.

    I think for current market conditions, and what I can see from specs, they hit a decent set of compromises with the Pre
  2. #42  
    If it supported transfer of data from a USB stick that might be a nice work around. Then you could carry "extra" data in a pen drive with you, like some people carry external drives for their notebook computers. I just bought a 32Gb USB stick for $45.
  3. cgk
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    I think for current market conditions, and what I can see from specs, they hit a decent set of compromises with the Pre

    There was some research a while back that noted that the average ipod users has something like 500-800 songs on their device... Palm knows that 8gb will be plenty for the "fat middle" this phone is aimed at.
  4. #44  
    No stylus, no problem. Don't really use mine anyhow.

    The 8gb will be fine for most people. If they Palm used 16gb, people would complain about not having 32gb, etc.

    I propose a paradigm change in the way people consider their media files. I think Palm is changing the way the mobile device works by integrating web data access for almost everything.

    There is already some ways to stream your files through the data connection(Orb for one). Even if you don't use Orb, I bet that someone will come up with an online server that would allow you to store your personal media files and stream them directly to your device. I think that is the future, instead of just storing everything locally on your Pre.
  5. cgk
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    No stylus, no problem. Don't really use mine anyhow.

    The 8gb will be fine for most people. If they Palm used 16gb, people would complain about not having 32gb, etc.

    I propose a paradigm change in the way people consider their media files. I think Palm is changing the way the mobile device works by integrating web data access for almost everything.

    There is already some ways to stream your files through the data connection(Orb for one). Even if you don't use Orb, I bet that someone will come up with an online server that would allow you to store your personal media files and stream them directly to your device. I think that is the future, instead of just storing everything locally on your Pre.
    True, but I think in the short term it's simpler than that - the people who said "OMG I need 1tb of storage or it's dead to me" are so statically insignificant to not care about.
  6. #46  
    I think it would be less of a problem if the Pre came with a decent amount of on board memory.

    I don't use my Centro as a media player right now for a few reasons. One is the small memory card I have (4GB) another is the 2.5mm headphone jack. Another is I wish to save the battery and CPU cycles for chattermail.

    I would expect that the Pre would have a media player on par with the iPhone. It really needs the mass storage as well.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I think it would be less of a problem if the Pre came with a decent amount of on board memory.

    What would be a "decent" amount of memory? That's pretty subjective.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    There was some research a while back that noted that the average ipod users has something like 500-800 songs on their device... Palm knows that 8gb will be plenty for the "fat middle" this phone is aimed at.
    I am sure Palm did market research about the average fat middle which is the announced target instead of business pros.

    What I said was the Orignal posters title question was refreshing and important because unlike a lot of feature and spec discussions isn't confrontation ally phrased as: "why did Palm make this mistake/omission?" Or conversely: "You don't need it that feature because I don't"!

    Comparing the memory on a smartphone to an ipod not really valid.


    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    research a while back
    A while back. did you read my post? I mentioned right away that current usage -- and even envisioned usages -- are always lower than reality.

    Please look at BBS forums from 25 years ago! Look at arpnet discussions. People are always saying "that is more than enough" and the point at which you max capacity almost always comes quicker than expected.

    Device life is two years: customer purchase efficiency, because of subsidy and contract incentives, are two years. If a person buys this device in September, the average user will have it in September 2011 (they may even wish to have secondary market value at tha time).

    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    What would be a "decent" amount of memory? That's pretty subjective.
    Not so much subjective and depending on objective need and use and future use. The OP phrasing is good and to the point, "for you."
    Answers which say "plenty for me and my use", and answer that say, "low for me and my expected needs in a year", especially given failure to provide expansion, are equally valid. for most it will be plenty.
  9. cgk
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    #49  
    Comparing the memory on a smartphone to an ipod not really valid.
    That's not what I'm comparing - I'm commenting on the amount of media that the average person carries which is a different thing.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    That's not what I'm comparing - I'm commenting on the amount of media that the average person carries which is a different thing.
    But it is to the amount of media the average person carries, it is the amount of media the average person carries in on a music only device.

    I would say music and audio is about 0.01% of the data on my smartphone.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by rinkeedink View Post
    But #1: No Micro SDHC expansion? This is not a deal breaker for me...but it comes close!
    Me too, but more for movies. I rip a lot of my DVDs and 8GB is really not a lot, especially as I'm addicted to British costume drama mini-series that sometimes run 4 hours or more!

    I will miss using my Palm phone as my main music device. It won't all fit there. Again, lots of moving stuff on and off the device, which is a pain. My Treo 680, with SDHC cards, is currently my only portable music-listening device.

    Couldn't care less about the stylus. The OS doesn't seem to require one.

    ETA: After reading some of the comments, I would be a lot more likely to be a Day 1 purchaser with 16GB onboard, even without expansion. Just saying.
    Last edited by MaggieScratch; 01/10/2009 at 08:33 AM.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Not always... what if you have to do a "hard reset" while at a conference for five days? Depending on the phone plans, many won't pay a monthly fee to backup to the web... even then, if you have 5 gb on the phone, then that could be expensive per month... where a card could take care of that issue....

    I've not had to "hard reset" any modern phone, so my point may not be a point...
    Good point, but why not just have a $50 usb hard drive with you holding your backup files? That was my first thought.
    But then again, I am still not at the point where I can go to a 5-Day conference without a laptop.....I guess I am still Old School....
  13. #53  
    8GB won't cut it for me and it's one of atleast two dealbreakers for me. I don't know what applications will be available in the future to drive my storage memory usage, the size of current Nova applications, or what new things I will want to do with the device so being limited to 8GB is a problem for me.

    I have dedicated pmps and cameras but I also would like to use both functions on the phone if I want to travel light for a day or two. I want to have the option of carrying my standard music loadout (> 8GB) or using the camera and storage for multiple images if needed. Like my Window Mobile devices, I would eventually like to use standalone GPS applications like GPS Tuner and TomTom and carry all the maps I need. I keep various copies of resumes, large spreadsheets, saved emails, chat logs, PDF files, meeting notes, backups, presentations, and podcasts. Having a hard cap at 8GB would be painful immediately and require me to upgrade sooner versus later.

    If it were more inline with the iPhone's offering of 32GB or even 16GB, I could easily buy into the lack of expansion. In my case, eight isn't enough.
  14. #54  
    I would like to see more than 8GB with or without micro SD expansion. Its not a deal breaker for me because I know the next Palm WebOS device will have more memory. I'll still buy one on day one and then upgrade to the next model when its released on day one.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  15. #55  
    No expansion storage is kinda big for me, as its my main backup solution. If they provide a secure way to backup to the computer or even an external flash drive via microUSB. OTA backups are nice, but I would like to access my files offline as well.

    Stylus...why would you need one now? Its like asking for grafitti...the technology now makes them BOTH obsolete!

    I do think 8GB is a tad on the low side if they wanted to one-up the iPhone, but its not inadequate!
  16. #56  
    I've said this in a couple other threads, but the lack of a MicroSD card slot is the only sticking point I have on the Pre. 8 gigs is probably enough for me, but my biggest concern is backing up and restoring. I have a Sprint Mogul now and before that I've had many Treos. I've used backup programs to schedule full backups every night to the card. That way if I'm away from a PC and I have a problem that requires a hard reset I can restore from the card and have my phone back to normal from the previous day. While PIM data might be syncing online all the time, it doesn't replace this kind of backing up. Between application installations and OS configurations, it can take a long time to rebuild my device from scratch. I'm sure someone will come up with a backup solution via USB, but that means I have to connect the Pre to my PC every day to backup, and if I have to restore I need to connect again. I love the freedom backing up to a memory card gives me.

    I'm not concerned about the lack of a stylus. It's pretty obvious WebOS and the apps have been designed to work well with just fingers.
  17. #57  
    I hardly ever use the stylus with my Centro. 8gig is too small for me to give up my iPod but I reckon we'll see multiple variants of the Pre with higher capacities just like we do with the iPhone. So no SD? Big deal.
  18. #58  
    I won't miss the stylus (except for games, so if someone develops a Garnet emulator, HOW are we suppose to play certain games?)... otherwise, I use the keyboard and buttons.

    Wow, no expandable memory?
    That's a tough one. I currently have a 16gn SDHC... filled with music.
    I may have to stream my movies online (no problem probably)... and I'll just have to change the mp3s I have on my device more often (true I HAVE so many mp3s I don't listen to them all)...
    If the Pre is a hit (I hope it is)... then they can have devices with MORE memory, perhaps when the USA GSM version is released it can have 16gb?
    --I buy my phones unlocked / unbranded, paying retail for phones works for me--

    BUT, what I shall miss is the back-up solution on the fly / go (Resco Backup)... it's saved my life quite a few times when I've been on the road!!
    --I may have to find a online solution -to a personal server---
    Now it's the WAITING GAME: a GSM Palm Pre
    T680 (COPPER) + Cingular = FUN!!
    My T650 & 6230b and NX70 are retired... =(
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  19. #59  
    Stylus is a moot point with a capacitive screen. It's fingers or nothing (or perhaps orange peel, but who carries that around).

    I have an 8GB sd card in my Treo 800w right now. All that is on it is music, photos, and 1 video. It's almost full. I can't imagine only 8GB for my media and apps both.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    What would be a "decent" amount of memory? That's pretty subjective.
    Yes and no. The iPhone is available with 16GB and the iPOd touch is available with 32GB. I think the Pre should ship with at least 16GB but 32GB would be better.
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