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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Grace View Post
    Hmmm. Wasn't aware they existed. I guess it would work, but these things seem fairly blunt.
    Blunter than the tip of your finger?
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Grace View Post
    Hmmm. Wasn't aware they existed. I guess it would work, but these things seem fairly blunt.
    Needs to be to provide the necessary capacitance.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Blunter than the tip of your finger?
    No, but I can't see how they'd be very precise. It's understandable, as iPhone software is designed for fingertips, so they don't have to be so precise on that platform.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Grace View Post
    No, but I can't see how they'd be very precise. It's understandable, as iPhone software is designed for fingertips, so they don't have to be so precise on that platform.
    Yeah, but WebOS is also clearly designed for fingertips.
  5. #105  
    But here we're not talking about WebOS apps but about legacy PalmOS apps, if it became possible to run them through emulation in WebOS.
  6. #106  
    That's true. Styletap for WM Standard (aka not touchscreen) actually uses the d-pad to make a mouse pointer than emulates the stylus. I realize there's no dpad on this, but the screen is 320x480 as opposed to the 320x320 of the Treos. Maybe (if it even gets developed) they could do the same thing using the extra area (or maybe even the gesture area if they wanted to emulate a Tungsten) to sort of act like a laptop's touchpad or something.
  7. Q
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But it makes peanuts for palm - the margins are very low. Look at the language Ed was using in the last results call - I'll be amazed if we see a centro 2 - especially if the Pre does well.
    Not only that, the carriers won't support the Centro forever. The Centro on GSM maxes out at EDGE, and AT&T for one has said they want all their phones to be 3G. It'll hit technical limits on Sprint and Verizon too, if it hasn't yet, and they'll want to move on. And that's just the US carriers... all the others with it worldwide will have schedules like this too.
  8. cgk
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Not only that, the carriers won't support the Centro forever. The Centro on GSM maxes out at EDGE, and AT&T for one has said they want all their phones to be 3G. It'll hit technical limits on Sprint and Verizon too, if it hasn't yet, and they'll want to move on. And that's just the US carriers... all the others with it worldwide will have schedules like this too.

    hum... I've never seen a centro to touch (I live in the UK) they were sold here and I've seen people online say they own one. Palm has been dead in the UK for many years (I used to see a *lot* of PDAs - I was a PDA man myself).
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta View Post
    I don't understand the claim that there is a need for a PDA OS. No one is buying PDAs. You can't give them away. I suppose Palm can keep making $99 TXs but why would they?
    Nesta, just because you don't understand a need for a PDA OS doesn't mean it isn't real. Palm OS PDA's are not out of date. They do exactly what we users want. And we users are doctors. In the several places I have worked I'd say 50-80% of physicians carry PDA's. We need PIM stuff like calendar and contact lists and to-do lists, and even more so, we need medical information at our fingertips. We don't need flashy web-connected devices. We don't need to play movies. The ability to look up cardiac management issues and then look at jpg baby pictures of my son is just a bonus. Early on in the days of ePocrates (the prescribing guide to all available medications), ePocrates cited 600,000 users -- and that was back when Palm OS was it and PocketPC was a recent upstart. Of course the Palm OS creaked under the weight of being welded to a telephone and then an internet browser. I can see how it is desirable to carry all the new possible functions of a mobile connected computer in a single slick device like an iPhone or a Pre. But you are simply wrong that no one wants a pure PDA. In fact, the vast majority of folks I know with PDA's have stand alone Tungsten TX or E2's.

    All the crap with required 2 year contracts now will terribly complicate the business of trying to get a simple PDA device to supply medical information needs at my fingertips. Last Spring I got approval for a little project to put Tungsten E2's in the pockets of our new physician trainees from day one of their training. With a volume purchase of refurbs from Palm plus expansion cards, I bought 10 and had the whole thing ready to go on July 1st for $1500. Now look at my options for this year's 10 trainees. Say I want to get them iPhones or Pre's (never mind that our organization's contract happens to be with Verizon, not AT&T or Sprint). At $200 for the device plus 2 year contracts for phone & data service at appx $100/month, that's a $26,000 project. And what a waste, since all these young 26-30 year old trainees already have their own cellphones and contracts when they arrive, so they don't need one from me. What they need is a tool to help them learn and practice medicine, and a tool on which to learn medical information resource management. I might buy 10 more E2's this Spring, I might have to buy 10 iPod Touches.

    I get it, Pre is very cool device, it represents Palm's future. But it's a year or more away from having the medical resources that us longtime physician heavy Palm PDA users need.
    -- Josh
  10. #110  
    Well, isn't ePocrates available for WinMo? So, there's the HP iPaq, if you don't want an iTouch...
  11. cgk
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    #111  
    And that's why PDAs will still be sold (but not developed or produced) by palm a bit - it's all gravy, the development costs are paid for, those babies are pure profit (how much profit is open to debate).

    It will be interesting to see when the numbers fall below the point that it's not worth palm selling them.
  12. #112  
    Well, they've removed them from their site, so I think it's to that point already.
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    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by steinbej View Post
    Nesta, just because you don't understand a need for a PDA OS doesn't mean it isn't real.
    I understand YOUR need for a PDA but I don't understand why you think it makes good business sense for Palm to keep developing PDAs when the product has reached its end of life. Why would Palm commit its very limited resources to the dinosaur that is the PDA. The demographic that continues to want or need a separate PDA is too small for a company like Palm that's fighting to stay alive to direct resources. The fact that you can't find a hint of stand alone PDAs on the palm site leads me to believe that they came to that same conclusion.

    It's like an electronics company spending money on producing VCRs instead of improving their HDTVs and blu-ray players. Sure some people still need VCRs (not sure who though) and may even prefer them and the production costs are probably pretty low at this point but if you want a VCR get it via fire sale or get it on ebay. Sony or whomever won't waste time on VCRs because it wouldn't be a wise way to spend resources on a product that very few people want or need.
  14. #114  
    If Palm made webOS backwards compatible with Palm OS they would have used an emulator anyways. Emulators aren't bad people, in a way they are better. Palm OS has a small footprint, most of it being apps from the carriers. The Pre is powerful enough to run Palm OS in a VM session without blinking.

    If anyone worked with OS X back when it debuted, you will remember that OS 9 apps were supported through emulation. It worked well, and didn't bring down the entire system if OS 9 apps had a hissy fit. It eventually got dropped when they switched to the Intel architecture.

    The only drawback to running Garnet in a VM session is pulling info from webOS (contacts, etc), but I am sure that will get figured out.

    Now the question is, can Garnet be emulated via web programming? I bet it can, because there are video game emulators that run just fine using web languages, and since the OS is over 10 years old, it won't be rocket science.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  15. #115  
    Can it be emulated using JavaScript? Without a doubt.

    Will it have anything that can be called "performance?" No.

    See, the biggest problem here is... you're emulating an ARM, in JavaScript, on an ARM.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
    Can it be emulated using JavaScript? Without a doubt.

    Will it have anything that can be called "performance?" No.

    See, the biggest problem here is... you're emulating an ARM, in JavaScript, on an ARM.
    Palm did say there is access to lower level APIs in the SDK, if they can pull off virtualization rather than emulation it would rock!

    Sorry I should have put virtualization rather than emulation in my post above.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  17. #117  
    This is true, and Palm probably would give an emulator developer access to run things properly.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by steinbej View Post
    I get it, Pre is very cool device, it represents Palm's future. But it's a year or more away from having the medical resources that us longtime physician heavy Palm PDA users need.
    -- Josh
    Hi Josh

    I have the same concerns about whether or when epocrates will be available on for webOS but I just wanted to add a few things. Although I have never used it epocrates is available on the web so your students could just browse to the page. Also most students these days already have some sort of smartphone so you may just try looking into purchasing a subscription to epocrates and allowing the student to purchase/use their own devices...
    Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 600 (T-Mo) --> Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 NC (Cing) --> Treo 680 (Cing) --> Pre (Sprint)

  19. cgk
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    #119  
    I think the point about specialist users - this isn't the device for you. This is squarely aimed at consumers. You *might* get the apps you need eventually but those are bolt-ons to the functionality not the core. Part of the leaving behind of the Palm OS seems to have to been to start from scratch and have no consideration for legacy users (rightly or wrongly).
  20. #120  
    PDA's could become a low level 'cash cow'

    There is not additional investment required- no development, no marketing.
    The hardware they require is very cheap
    the OS will be whatever is used on the palm phones.

    as long as there selling price is above there build price and cost of sale (i.e. web trasnction cost, support cost, etc) Palm could continue selling them


    (based on the fact they are off the website, wouldn't expect that to happen)
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
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