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  1. Nesta's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingPilot View Post
    I think this is the point that is being made.... There still is a need for a PDA OS! Unfortunately Palm has designed for the lowest common denominator. To h*ll with those who actually use these devices as handheld computers. Vertical applications, who needs them is Palm's attitude. And to a degree, I'd agree, they have to make money, and there's not that much money in specialty devices. However, Palm has a legacy in the PDA OS market, and the choices are dwindling fast. IMHO, the only real PDA OS left, which is an awful one, is Windows Mobile.

    In reviewing the ACCESS Linux Platform, I'd go out on a limb and say this is what is needed. A real winner would be a professional version of the Pre (the 'After?) running ALP (form factor good, legacy support, etc.)
    I don't understand the claim that there is a need for a PDA OS. No one is buying PDAs. You can't give them away. I suppose Palm can keep making $99 TXs but why would they?

    If you (the royal you) give palm the middle finger because of a lack of compatibility aren't you going to have the same problem whenever you move to a new platform(iphone, G1, WinMob)? Eventually that TX or 755p will die (of course you can keep buying new ones on ebay I suppose). You will have to move somewhere and the provider of that all important software will probably port their software to WebOS in relatively short order.

    Palm is literally fighting for its life. Dedicating resources on what I'm guessing is a very small, yet vocal, subset of folks wouldn't be smart. And if I'm wrong and there is a HUGE need for backwards compatibility someone will make money providing an emulator. I'm actually glad Palm opted for a clean break.
  2. Nesta's Avatar
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    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post

    However, I do think that Palm owes those loyal PalmOS users that have continued to purchase their out-of-date products over the last couple of years and kept them afloat, a bit of effort to provide emulation.
    Why? Who forced them to buy as you state an out of date product? Did you or others buy the products out of loyalty or because the product made sense for you needs at the time despite its limitations.

    Palm and its developer partners certainly aren't going to generate any revenue by providing an emulator for programs that were purchased years ago.
  3. cgk
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta View Post
    I don't understand the claim that there is a need for a PDA OS. No one is buying PDAs. You can't give them away. I suppose Palm can keep making $99 TXs but why would they?
    Sorta - all of the development costs and other associated costs of the PDAs are paid for - Palm's plan is to just to have their chinese box shifter produce them until the orders fall below a certain level... it's all gravy at this stage.

    In reviewing the ACCESS Linux Platform, I'd go out on a limb and say this is what is needed.
    For small specialist needs - yes, for the eye-catching mass market device that Palm needs? - no.

    However if ALP is your bent:

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/7...ed-smartphone/

    http://www.emblazemobile.com/project.html
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta View Post
    For so long people have bemoaned how Palm needs to join the 21st century and how antiquated Palm OS was, etc. Palm listened and they've scrapped Garnet for an OS that seems to provide the functionality that folks have been clamoring for and is pretty wide open. Palm OS is really a PDA OS not a smartphone OS and PDAs are dead.

    I understand those who are upset about the medical software or quicken not being compatible on day one but seriously how much of palm's current base considers that lack of day one or integrated backwards compatibility a deal breaker? I have to think that if Palm is looking to get 1% of the smartphone market, the crowd that states backwards compatability is a deal killer is pretty small especially if you focus on those that need very specific apps like medical software.

    If they lose your business it's probably not that a big a loss for Palm in the big scheme of things although it may drive you to another OS (wouldn't you have the same problem migrating to a new OS?). If the people I know are any indication, they don't have palm phones because of attachment to any application. Palm can get them to move to the new sexy phone pretty easily.
    What people have been bemoaning about PalmOS Treos are lack of stability and general inability to walk and chew gum at the same time. Anyone who didn't like the PalmOS UI has presumably already moved on.

    According to Sprint, about two thirds of Centro buyers previously owned a Palm device (presumably PalmOS). I would assume that many of those Centro buyers also owned applications they were attached to otherwise they would have probably switched to another platform.

    You are correct that PalmOS users are probably going to have to migrate to a completely new platform. However, the platform with the best backward compatibility appears to be Windows Mobile. Many apps have been ported and there is already an emulator available.
  5. cgk
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    You are correct that PalmOS users are probably going to have to migrate to a completely new platform. However, the platform with the best backward compatibility appears to be Windows Mobile. Many apps have been ported and there is already an emulator available.
    And what a dog of a platform that is... (although I flashed my phone to wm 6.1 today and that's *slightly* less of a dog)..
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    And what a dog of a platform that is... (although I flashed my phone to wm 6.1 today and that's *slightly* less of a dog)..
    Yes, its a bit depressing really.
  7. cgk
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Yes, its a bit depressing really.
    Sooner or later windows is going to come out with a different phone OS - Windows 7 is going to be the business one and functionally not much different from 6 (how really can it be, the enterprise market is not going to want to start from scratch) and Zunephone (or whatever) is going to be for the consumer market..
  8. Nesta's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    According to Sprint, about two thirds of Centro buyers previously owned a Palm device (presumably PalmOS). I would assume that many of those Centro buyers also owned applications they were attached to otherwise they would have probably switched to another platform.
    Yes but how many of them would consider the lack of backward compatibility a deal killer? I suppose that most would migrate if their fav programs would be available on a shiny new, better platform and they could upgrade for a small fee.

    The centro owners I know like my mother in law bought the phone because it was cute, cheap and small.
  9. cgk
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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta View Post
    Yes but how many of them would consider the lack of backward compatibility a deal killer? I suppose that most would migrate if their fav programs would be available on a shiny new, better platform and they could upgrade for a small fee.

    The centro owners I know like my mother in law bought the phone because it was cute, cheap and small.
    It's weird when you think about it, we spend all this time talking about sync, PIM, back-up - most people are still saving their phone contacts directly on a sim/the device (and all as single entries "David HOME", "Dave Mobile"), paying for apps (mainly games) and then when swapping phones buy the apps again and copy the contacts over by hand!
  10. Nesta's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It's weird when you think about it, we spend all this time talking about sync, PIM, back-up - most people are still saving their phone contacts directly on a sim/the device (and all as single entries "David HOME", "Dave Mobile"), paying for apps (mainly games) and then when swapping phones buy the apps again and copy the contacts over by hand!
    Exactly. Treocentral members are not typical users IMO. More folks are like my wife who not only doesn't back up to a SD card she never syncs to palm desktop because it's too much of a hassle. I periodically back up her phone to my SD card.

    They buy the phone and start anew with each new phone.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Sagan View Post
    Palm doesn't own them ****. It was their choice to keep buying them. Palm is a profit seeking corporation not some charity!
    Okay! They owe it to themselves then. As it stands they are foregoing any advantage of brand loyalty from PalmOS users by making it a clean-slate stituation when we consider our next phone.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It's weird when you think about it, we spend all this time talking about sync, PIM, back-up - most people are still saving their phone contacts directly on a sim/the device (and all as single entries "David HOME", "Dave Mobile"), paying for apps (mainly games) and then when swapping phones buy the apps again and copy the contacts over by hand!

    Yeah, and they wonder why they are so disorganized and are therefore never considered for that big promotion...
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossarnie View Post
    The sad irony of Palm's brilliant leap forward in the shape of WebOS and the Pre, is that PalmOS is surely dead; having searched a number of sites and forums, it seems unlikely that the new OS will be backwards compatible, which means that all my beloved programs will probably die with my T680.

    It means that the feature of PalmOS that I appreciated the most - its speed - may or may not be repeated (or bettered?) in WebOS.

    I also gather that WebOS will be a lot more of a closed book to developers, as their programs will have to be 'approved' to avoid the possibility that they might mess up the phones. Though a definite improvement, as it lessens the chance of the phone fritzing, it will detract from one of PalmOS's great qualities - the sheer number of programs available and the speed with which they were updated.

    It will also mean that, if I choose to stick with Palm, I will have to get used to a new OS, something I have avoided until now, and one of the reasons I was faithful to Palm through its turbulent times.

    The bottom line: when I decide on my next phone, Palm will have no headstart on any other manufacturer or OS. And that kind of saddens me...
    Palm OS has been dead for three years. Nothing has changed. One would like to say that Palm has now acknowledged that it is dead, but they do not. They talk of an emulator as though that were the same thing. Palm will never learn candor, let alone honesty. They lie when the truth would do.
    Up the next election, my citizens; always the next election.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Palm OS has been dead for three years. Nothing has changed.
    One thing has changed recently. www.chatteremail.com no longer works.
  15. #95  
    Just watched the Palm presentation video about the Pre... and as a previous 650, Centro and current 755p user... I am absolutely amazed at this new phone . I have a ton of 3rd party apps on my 755p, and was concerned about backwards compatibility - but after watching the demo, I have complete faith that the basic apps embedded plus new apps (either revised old Palm apps or completely new ones) will more than fill my (and millions of others) needs. I can't wait to get this phone!!!!!! WOW! WOW! WOW!

    p.s. Although I am a frequent reader of posts on this site (and many other sites covering Palm phones), rarely have I felt so compelled to actually post anything. Palm has a real winner here with the Pre!!!
  16. #96  
    Just watched the presentation (also caught Dieter's most excellent play-by-play LIVE) will be happy to 1)move PalmOS info to webOS; 2) give proper burial to palm OS, no problem with that whatsoever. Am a little confused (a developer mioght consider this an opportunity) what is the precise border of the screen? Can you underlay screen were the battery and sig strength are located? There's so much upside with the new OS. Right on Palm.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    One thing has changed recently. www.chatteremail.com no longer works.
    Every Palm announcement leaves orphan applications and makes many accessories obsolete. Every Palm generation has had new proprietary interfaces; only Palm can tout USB standard interfaces on the Pre as a "feature."

    As a long term Palm user, this has been vexing. One always wonders whether they even thought about the cost to the user of this strategy.

    That said, it is not clear that Palm is any worse at that than Apple or even Microsoft. I had to get a new car charger for my iPhone, iPod carger would not work, and another one for the iPHone 3G. Same for docking stations.

    Apple software compatibility has been much better than Palm. iTunes software upgrades are all but transparent and iTunes works across a half dozen products. The new software for the iPhone 3G works on iPhone 2G. That cannot be an accident, has a cost to Apple, but saves the user money.
    Up the next election, my citizens; always the next election.
  18. #98  
    I have an absolutely wonderful Chinese dictionary on my Centro, called Pleco. I can't imagine not having this available as I'm learning Chinese.

    Also, I can't imagine using it without a stylus to be able to draw the characters. A fingertip would be clumsy.

    Also, can you imagine playing solitaire without a stylus? The cards would have to be pretty large.

    Not that solitaire is such a crucial app, but just think of all the apps that people have accumulated on the PalmOS that depend on a stylus. How would you emulate those on the Pre's touchscreen?
  19. #99  
    With an iPhone stylus.
  20. #100  
    Hmmm. Wasn't aware they existed. I guess it would work, but these things seem fairly blunt.
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