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  1. #41  
    Most of my 'favourite' PalmOS apps were effectively hacks that got the phone to do things. E.g. Profiles, Butler etc.

    They will be completely redundant, so don't serve as a reason to regret the change.

    Datebk6 is one of my favourite apps and I accept it would be a complete rewrite which may or may not happen. However, one of its biggest shortcomings is interfacing the current Palm with web calendars and groupware. So I'd trade some of the hundreds of Datebk6 bells and whistles, for some online goodness.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Sadly, I don't miss ANY application from my PalmOS days at all...I do miss a few iPhone apps (Yelp! and Urban Spoon really), but I think that the Pre will have all of these and more.
    I'm sure the web-based stuff like that will easily find replacements on this web-based phone. It's stuff like Pocket Quicken, Comet, offline subway timetables, and other things that concern me. Not to mention data security issues when you are forced to sync everything through the Internet including personal financial data.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    Palm needed to move on to move ahead. This is the same problem Windows has with backwards compatibility. You can only change so much before you break compatibility. Eventually, Windows Mobile may run into the same problem. Palm really needed to move on to something new and there was no reason to integrate the old software into the new paradigm of how Nova functions. Time marches onward and I think Palm made a good choice.
    They have made a choice. Including an emulator so the 13 years of Palm apps might have a chance to run out of the box would have been a better choice. Hell, it's even possible on WinceMob (as well as grafitti one!).

    Fine to leap from he past, but burning a bridge while many customers are dependent upon it seems almost spiteful. On release, you can bet that a small percentage of developers will have rewritten code for webmojo. A basic emulator might solve this problem and give Palm some good juju instead of alienating 13 years of customers.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  4. #44  
    Still cannot tell whether it will sync with the Palm desktop. That is key for me.
    B B
  5. #45  
    PalmOS served me well over the last 10 years. Along the way I tried WindowsCE and WM and even toyed with a Nokia N-series but the Palm always won out in the end. Before Palm I had a series of Psion's which were vastly superior devices (from the integrated operating system and software standpoint) but the products were just a bit too delicate for their own good.

    I look forward to moving to the next generation.

    I will be more inclined to upgrade when I see a smooth migration path.
  6. cgk
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by blazorboy View Post
    Still cannot tell whether it will sync with the Palm desktop. That is key for me.
    B B

    It doesn't - no desktop sync of PIM.
    Like the iPhone (when synced with Apple's MobileMe service) and the G1, the Pre is designed to sync not to your desktop or laptop, but to the Web. That includes not just whatever service Palm will offer (the Web OS developer sitting behind me during Palm's demonstration wouldn't say what that might be), but also such popular Web services as Google and Facebook.
    However it looks like Palm might over a online Palm desktop of some type (with a yearly fee I'm sure...)
  7. #47  
    Yeah, Palm needed to move on and the new OS looks great. But it doesn't mean the Garnet OS won't be around for a while. Not everyone is going to jump in the Pre. It's only going to be on Sprint for who knows how long. I have Verizon and will stick with them and hope they get the Pre soon. But for the time being, will continue to be satisfied with my Centro and some of the great PalmOS apps that are on it.

    The approved apps is probably a good idea. That was one of the problems with the Garnet OS. There were a number of apps that were bad and caused problems on the Centros and that caused people to get frustrated. It is disappointing in that respect, because one of the great things about Palm was the diversity and number of programs. Yes, those days are coming to an end.
  8. cgk
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    #48  
    I guess there is always the Edelweiss....


    http://www.edelweiss-mobile.com/
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I guess there is always the Edelweiss....


    http://www.edelweiss-mobile.com/
    Wrong form factor unfortunately.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    The approved apps is probably a good idea. That was one of the problems with the Garnet OS. There were a number of apps that were bad and caused problems on the Centros and that caused people to get frustrated. It is disappointing in that respect, because one of the great things about Palm was the diversity and number of programs. Yes, those days are coming to an end.
    To be fair to the developers of those apps, Garnet was not perhaps the easiest to develop robust apps for.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I guess there is always the Edelweiss....


    http://www.edelweiss-mobile.com/

    Cool!
  12. cgk
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    To be fair to the developers of those apps, Garnet was not perhaps the easiest to develop robust apps for.
    I guess people are out of luck then - I don't see palm ever developing another Palm OS device. Maybe Access with partner with someone who will do a candybar?
  13. #53  
    I have been thinking back about Backwards Compatibility. I cannot think of a single time where a switch to a new platform has been painless when trying to ensure BC. Lets think:
    MAC 68K - Power PC = big headaches
    MACOS9 - OSX = headaches
    Windows/DOS - Windows NT/2000 = headaches
    I can't think of any others at this moment........

    The moral of the story is........I would rather just buy new software than to have to suffer through a platform shift. Agendus 13 for Palm OS wouldn't seem right on WebOS anyway......
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm quite glad that webOS is not natively backwards compatible. Though I'd no have problem with someone developing a Garnet emulator, building backwards compatibility into the OS almost always comes at a cost.

    Just look at Windows, probably the single biggest noose around its neck is that Microsoft keeps making new versions compatible with previous versions. If they would just cut the cord once and for all, (like Apple did with OSX) they might have a radical and exciting new platform. But until they do that they'll continue to be hobbled by the ghosts of OS's past.

    I can certainly appreciate the frustration for those who have an investment in apps for Garnet, but at some point I think you just need to throw away the old and not look back.
    I am right there with you!


    solid
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    They have made a choice. Including an emulator so the 13 years of Palm apps might have a chance to run out of the box would have been a better choice. Hell, it's even possible on WinceMob (as well as grafitti one!).

    Fine to leap from he past, but burning a bridge while many customers are dependent upon it seems almost spiteful. On release, you can bet that a small percentage of developers will have rewritten code for webmojo. A basic emulator might solve this problem and give Palm some good juju instead of alienating 13 years of customers.
    Maybe I just can't relate.
    I don't have any apps that are 13 years old.

    I am generally software agnostic. I care about functionality more than anything else.
    I look at the most popular Palm applications on sites like mobihand, handango, and palmgear, and it seems to me that a good majority of them are probably something that cold be easily re-written. The databases can be easily migrated to WebOS.
    So, I can't run some obsucre application that talks directly to device hardware. Its likely it wasn't selling all that much anyway.
    Lets Take a look at mobihand's current top 5.
    You have:
    Touch Launcher: Who needs that on the new system? And if you do need it, writing it will be as simple as programming an AJAX application. (I imagine)
    USB Modem: I admit, I am not sure how that one would work
    CallRecord: Probably pretty easy to port over
    Butler: This guy is a genius.(no pun intended) Most of the stuff in butler might be already implemented in the new OS, He will probably find new ways to make the system better
    Softick Audio Gateway: Functionality is already in the system.

    Now lets look at some of the big players:
    Datebk6/Agendus: I imagine these ports are already in progress
    Natara Bonsai/Daynotez: Same as above
    Pocket Quicken/Ultrasoft Money/Adarian/etc: I bet a money app will be available at launch.

    I guess I just don't see how this is alienating 13 years of Palm OS users. Its not like these apps cost $150 a pop or anything. I could probably replace ALL of my apps (been collecting them since 2000) with $150.

    of course I could be wrong
    It happens regularly
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    To be fair to the developers of those apps, Garnet was not perhaps the easiest to develop robust apps for.
    Very True.
    I think thats my biggest worry about the new WebOS. How easy will it be to develop the really robust Applications. I guess it will depend on each app's purpose. For example games will be next to impossible witout accessing the base OS. But PIM Apps would likely be pretty easy.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    They have made a choice. Including an emulator so the 13 years of Palm apps might have a chance to run out of the box would have been a better choice. Hell, it's even possible on WinceMob (as well as grafitti one!).
    That contradicts the idea of moving on. Software running on an emulator would operate under one paradigm and native software would be under another. The old software running in the emulator may have issues accessing low level functions of the new os. Running an emulator encourages problems and forces Palm to support old software under the emulator. Palm probably wanted to make a clean break and insure that available software under Nova works well with the Pre. Buggy applications tend to taint the reputation of the OS. Old Palm OS applications detracts from the new GUI and functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    Fine to leap from he past, but burning a bridge while many customers are dependent upon it seems almost spiteful. On release, you can bet that a small percentage of developers will have rewritten code for webmojo. A basic emulator might solve this problem and give Palm some good juju instead of alienating 13 years of customers.
    The customers who are as strident to maintain thier old applications should stay with the old OS. If Palm took the approach of staying in the past, it would most likely burden it's future. The Palm OS is the past. Nova and the iPhone's OS is the future.

    An emulator that does not include the full functionality of the old Palm OS would probably produce bad sentiments from legacy customers just as not including one at all would do. If you're going to **** people off in either case, do it in the most expedient way possible. Don't spend the money develping a emulator and let those who expected one be pissed off instead pissing them off by providing an emulator that will not support ill conditioned applications and limits access to the core OS functions.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm quite glad that webOS is not natively backwards compatible.
    I'm not necessarly glad that Palm OS compatibility is not included but I think at this point it was absolutely necessary for Palm to make the jump. I'm not really a Palm devotee so in my objective opinion, Nova is where Palm needs to be today and breaking with the past was the best way to get there.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossarnie View Post
    it seems unlikely that the new OS will be backwards compatible, which means that all my beloved programs will probably die with my T680.
    I am sure someone out there will write an emulator in order to run older apps. Whoever does it first will be sitting on a gold mine. Almost every palm user who has an old app that they care the slightest about will down load it if not for any other reason than nostalgia...
    Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 600 (T-Mo) --> Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 NC (Cing) --> Treo 680 (Cing) --> Pre (Sprint)

  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by solar_plexus View Post
    Maybe I just can't relate.
    I don't have any apps that are 13 years old.

    I am generally software agnostic. I care about functionality more than anything else.
    I look at the most popular Palm applications on sites like mobihand, handango, and palmgear, and it seems to me that a good majority of them are probably something that cold be easily re-written. The databases can be easily migrated to WebOS.
    So, I can't run some obsucre application that talks directly to device hardware. Its likely it wasn't selling all that much anyway.
    Lets Take a look at mobihand's current top 5.
    You have:
    Touch Launcher: Who needs that on the new system? And if you do need it, writing it will be as simple as programming an AJAX application. (I imagine)
    USB Modem: I admit, I am not sure how that one would work
    CallRecord: Probably pretty easy to port over
    Butler: This guy is a genius.(no pun intended) Most of the stuff in butler might be already implemented in the new OS, He will probably find new ways to make the system better
    Softick Audio Gateway: Functionality is already in the system.

    Now lets look at some of the big players:
    Datebk6/Agendus: I imagine these ports are already in progress
    Natara Bonsai/Daynotez: Same as above
    Pocket Quicken/Ultrasoft Money/Adarian/etc: I bet a money app will be available at launch.

    I guess I just don't see how this is alienating 13 years of Palm OS users. Its not like these apps cost $150 a pop or anything. I could probably replace ALL of my apps (been collecting them since 2000) with $150.

    of course I could be wrong
    It happens regularly
    Good post Solar, cool name; reminds me of old school pro wresling.

    As for mobihand's current top five:

    USB Modem: I'm pretty sure I saw on Pre specs or description that it will be able to be used as a modem out of the box.
    CallRecord: I absolutely love this program but I'm concerned we won't see something like this on the Pre for a while because programs won't have access to low-level functions? Please tell me if I'm wrong but isn't this exactly the type of thing that was easy to do with Garnet because of how open the OS/phone are?
    Touch Launcher: Is this the type of program that Rubenstein and gang looked at to see how we wanted to use our device and built that idea into the core of how the Pre works? Way to react to what people need, not tell them what they need...unlike the fruit people.
    Butler: Another great example of the ability to tweak core hardware functions. One of the very best reasons to own a Treo; total customization possibilities. On one hand I'm sure the Pre will be slicker out of the box so we won't feel the need to tweak as much, but if we want to will we have that ability through 3rd party aps? Early indications are that they will lock down those core functions from new apps?
    Softkick Audio Gateway: I don't know what this is. Audio streaming over a network? If that's the case then the Pre should revolutionize that type of thing.

    As for the PIM-type apps, my favorite programs are available on the different platforms already. It's not like Garnet has any special ability to run something that WM/blackberry can't when it comes to Bonsai, ListPro, eWallet, clocks, calculators, diet/exercise trackers, etc. I can't think of any program I have that won't be very nicely updated into WebOS.

    It's the intregration with the core PIM (like Bonsai can talk to Palm tasks) and the low level phone access (Butler, CallRec) that I'm concerned about. As long as WebOS lets me totally customize my PIM experience instead of making me conform to whatever their default system is I'll be very ecstatic.

    If I can't customize Pre like I can Treo to make it specifically MY device, I will still upgrade but probably always long for the simple Garnet days of making it be whatever I wanted it to be. I'm hoping for all upside and that Palm doesn't forget what it's special sauce used to be.
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