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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by EdCates View Post
    They've obviously chosen the latter approach, hoping that the influx of new customers will offset the loss of old customers and actually make the company viable once again. It's hard for long-time customers to accept, but let's be honest: There just aren't enough Palm addicts out there to keep the company going. They made the choice they needed to in order to survive.
    Clearly they needed a new OS to replace Garnet. However, they could of produced an OS with some backward compatibilty and a similar UI. That would not have been nearly as exciting but would have helped retain their existing userbase.

    The path they have chosen is an interesting one but it represents a complete break from the past. What they have produced is another completely new platform to compete with the iPhone and Android rather than the more traditional Blackberry OS, Windows Mobile (or Garnet). Its going to be an interesting couple of years.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Clearly they needed a new OS to replace Garnet. However, they could of produced an OS with some backward compatibilty and a similar UI. That would not have been nearly as exciting but would have helped retain their existing userbase.

    The path they have chosen is an interesting one but it represents a complete break from the past. What they have produced is another completely new platform to compete with the iPhone and Android rather than the more traditional Blackberry OS, Windows Mobile (or Garnet). Its going to be an interesting couple of years.
    What you're looking for describes ALP exactly. Who knows, maybe we'll still see an ALP device someday on local carriers. As for me, all my excitement for ALP dissolved as soon as I saw Palm's new offerings.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  3. #23  
    My personal opinion is, this time last year, they should've released an 800p or something running ALP.

    Then, evolve ALP into webOS from there.

    webOS blows ALP out of the water, I won't deny it. But, the decision to focus everything on webOS almost killed Palm.
  4. #24  
    does anyone know if the palm desktop data (contacts etc) will be cleanly importable ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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    #25  
    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm quite glad that webOS is not natively backwards compatible. Though I'd no have problem with someone developing a Garnet emulator, building backwards compatibility into the OS almost always comes at a cost.

    Just look at Windows, probably the single biggest noose around its neck is that Microsoft keeps making new versions compatible with previous versions. If they would just cut the cord once and for all, (like Apple did with OSX) they might have a radical and exciting new platform. But until they do that they'll continue to be hobbled by the ghosts of OS's past.

    I can certainly appreciate the frustration for those who have an investment in apps for Garnet, but at some point I think you just need to throw away the old and not look back.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    When I had my Treo 650 a couple of years ago, most of the apps were pure garbage. There were maybe a dozen that were good, but they were graphically unappealing although there was good functionality there. However, they didn't support the newest technologies (i.e. location based services) and all of that means that legacy support will be a very small factor for the success of this device.
    I consider the 650 extremely recent, but I understand your perspective. Many of us older users have many more apps stretching back to the mid '90s that may never be replaced- or if they are will be dumbed down in favor of flashiness. Ugliness of the apps was a limitation from the early design of PalmOS when memory was at a premium and fonts were only 4.

    Honestly, I need to take an inventory of my apps and determine:

    1) must have
    2) want
    3) like to have
    4) bleh

    As long as all of number 1 and many of number 2 can be handled in the new OS, I'll probably migrate. But if I can't use the new OS for productive work and only flashy games and PIMs - Palm will have failed. There's already an iPhone.

    Hopefully, Styletap or another company will build a good Garnet emulator (as Palm should have), then it would be added-value to migrate to a new, unproven OS. But Palm is positioning themselves as newcomers here - something any other company with a new OS can do, too.

    Access had a Linux OS running Palm apps out of the box a couple years ago. Wonder what happened to them???
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    does anyone know if the palm desktop data (contacts etc) will be cleanly importable ??

    Boy, am I gonna need an answer to that question!
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    Access had a Linux OS running Palm apps out of the box a couple years ago. Wonder what happened to them???
    It's called ALP, and we've been talking about it all through this thread.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    That would not have been nearly as exciting but would have helped retain their existing userbase.

    The path they have chosen is an interesting one but it represents a complete break from the past. What they have produced is another completely new platform to compete with the iPhone and Android rather than the more traditional Blackberry OS, Windows Mobile (or Garnet). Its going to be an interesting couple of years.
    Just retaining their existing userbase would have killed off Palm as a company. Again, the current userbase isn't enough to keep it afloat. They had to go for "exciting" and get more users on board.

    Had to.
  10. #30  
    And, note that ALP wasn't really compromised by the "integration" of Garnet emulation into the main OS.

    Basically, it gave Garnet apps icons in the launcher, and you could just start the Garnet VM from any of those icons.

    I suspect it'd be quite difficult to do in Mojo, but Palm has said that on a case-by-case basis, they'll let developers run native code if they can prove that they can't do it in Mojo... but a similar implementation could work on webOS. In fact, you MIGHT even be able to have Garnet cards instead of a single Garnet VM instance like ALP has, and give each application an independent database (or even access to the webOS databases.)
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    I consider the 650 extremely recent, but I understand your perspective. Many of us older users have many more apps stretching back to the mid '90s that may never be replaced- or if they are will be dumbed down in favor of flashiness. Ugliness of the apps was a limitation from the early design of PalmOS when memory was at a premium and fonts were only 4.

    Honestly, I need to take an inventory of my apps and determine:

    1) must have
    2) want
    3) like to have
    4) bleh

    As long as all of number 1 and many of number 2 can be handled in the new OS, I'll probably migrate. But if I can't use the new OS for productive work and only flashy games and PIMs - Palm will have failed. There's already an iPhone.

    Hopefully, Styletap or another company will build a good Garnet emulator (as Palm should have), then it would be added-value to migrate to a new, unproven OS. But Palm is positioning themselves as newcomers here - something any other company with a new OS can do, too.

    Access had a Linux OS running Palm apps out of the box a couple years ago. Wonder what happened to them???
    Sadly, I don't miss ANY application from my PalmOS days at all...I do miss a few iPhone apps (Yelp! and Urban Spoon really), but I think that the Pre will have all of these and more.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaharr View Post
    Boy, am I gonna need an answer to that question!

    maybe, maybe not - but if you synch to desktop / outlook / or goole already wouldn't you just synch the contact from those locations?

    If you don;t synch the hpone, i'm gonna guess you will have a problem

    Sperately - those anaolgies for cars got a little funny :-) But there were good points.
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  13. #33  
    Maybe I'm missing the point, but why do you all thing that Palm OS is dead. They have a great product in the Centro, aren't they likely to at least continue that phone into the next few years at least?

    I have tried a couple of phones, including the HTC Touch Pro, and have come back to my 700p, basically the same phone I've been using for 4 years (650 then 700p). I don't see changing to something else just because it is newer.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by clindner View Post
    Maybe I'm missing the point, but why do you all thing that Palm OS is dead. They have a great product in the Centro, aren't they likely to at least continue that phone into the next few years at least?
    .
    Clinder - w/ some many companies agressively creating new smart phones, i can;t see the centro lasting much longer. what you get w/ the centro has already been supassed by many other phones at a similar price point.
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  15. #35  
    Oh sure, there are plenty of other phones. But a Palm is a market in and of itself. Just as there are people who will only use WinMo phones, there are people who will only use Palm OS phones.

    There is a market for it, and a Centro is far more capable than 90% of the phones being sold. Certainly more capable than any phone priced lower than it has been.
  16. cgk
    cgk is offline
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by clindner View Post
    Oh sure, there are plenty of other phones. But a Palm is a market in and of itself. Just as there are people who will only use WinMo phones, there are people who will only use Palm OS phones.

    There is a market for it, and a Centro is far more capable than 90% of the phones being sold. Certainly more capable than any phone priced lower than it has been.

    But it makes peanuts for palm - the margins are very low. Look at the language Ed was using in the last results call - I'll be amazed if we see a centro 2 - especially if the Pre does well.
  17. #37  
    This is a common story in technology, and indeed, with Palm/Handspring.

    I remember when Handspring killed the springboard to make Treos. Alot of pain, betrayal, and the developers and third-parties pretty much stopped support. But they realized the phone was the future. I do give them props for keeping alot of the software. And I was able to get alot of discounted hardware during the next year (springboard gps units for $15, phones for $2, etc.).

    MS had to deal with DOS and Windows. I even remember 8-bit vs. 16-bit Dr DOS support. IBM is constantly worried about WebSphere features and which to support in future releases. Netscape, Sun/Java, etc. all had to deal with this.

    I think honesty is important. Palm shouldn't mislead customers or developers that porting old applications or data will be easy (and the only quote I read said that it was easy to port the data, not the application...). Expectations should be set properly...
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  18. #38  
    I'm confident a good emulator will be created, there's just too many great Garnet aps to let them die forever. But what about developing in Garnet? No way that's going to continue. The Centro shouldn't be sold after July of this year or so. By then they will have probably released a 'Pre-light' that will take the Centro's place... or maybe they'll just update it's body and sell it with WM?

    Palm has got to be scrambling behind the scenes to finish WebOS's core PIM functionality right now. In that presentation they used the new MemoPad to demonstrate a PIM activity?! Why not Tasks? Must not be done yet. Which excites me, because if it's not done yet then that probably means it's something fresh and different like the synergy-infused Contacts and Calendar. Or I'm completely wrong and they didn't demostrate it because it's nothing special....
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by maxmin View Post
    Yea, I'd have to say I'm pretty disappointed about the no backward compatibility. I honestly think it's going to cost them.
    Palm needed to move on to move ahead. This is the same problem Windows has with backwards compatibility. You can only change so much before you break compatibility. Eventually, Windows Mobile may run into the same problem. Palm really needed to move on to something new and there was no reason to integrate the old software into the new paradigm of how Nova functions. Time marches onward and I think Palm made a good choice.

    I am a big Windows Mobile fan and I really like what they did with Nova. I won't buy a Pre because of the lack of expandable memory and the expected network dependency of it's GPS but I can admire it from a far.
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    #40  
    I would be very surprised if Palm didn't have some clean way for users to migrate their data from the current software to the new setup with the Pre.

    Even without Palm releasing something, there are already third party tools that can sync your data to Outlook, or Google, or other places, so there are ways to do it. My data is all synced with my work's Exchange server, so my calendar and contacts won't even need to be moved (although I will have to go through a separation process of my personal vs. work items, as right now they are all on my work's system).

    On the Application front, even ignoring the level of approval aspect, I'm sure it's only an issue for applications that are to be installed with the higher levels of access to the system. Online applications I'm sure could be designed with no approval whatsoever (you just run it in the web browser directly from the Internet).
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