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  1. agn727's Avatar
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       #1  
    I was so excited when that Fool.com story came out talking about how Graffiti could be the ace up Nova's sleeve. It really put me at ease. Because every time a new Palm smartphone comes out, I worry about losing that handwriting functionality.

    I've had Palm OS phones since the Kyocera 6035. I had a Samsung I300 Palm OS phone that had no keyboard. And I've had the Treos: 300, 600, 650, 700 and now the Centro.

    I use the keyboard frequently - when I can only give the phone attention with one hand. But I usually take notes, text and surf with a stylus. For me, I'm simply faster using a stylus coupled with Jot. (Funny thing: Jot didn't run very well on the 700P. When I got the Centro, it was just to see if Jot ran on it - if not, it was going back. But it runs great on the Centro.)

    Every week, without fail, I'm asked about my phone when people see me writing on the screen. I show them the other tricks the Centro can do (I keep it fully loaded with all the hot applications), but the handwriting is always the ice-breaker. I'd like to think I sold some people on a better platform.

    I really wanted to love the Pre. And I do think Palm has made great strides with this new phone. I can live without the legacy applications, although I do find the lack of removable storage troubling. But I needed it to at least have a stylus so I could hope for a 3rd party Graffiti application. Sadly, that's just not the case...

    I just ordered a battery, charger and styli/pens for my Centro. So, I guess I'll be around for a couple more months. This isn't some big F-you to Palm or anything. I really had a great time with their products. Even the Treo 300's that broke every 2 months and the 700P's that were, shall we say, temperamental.

    I really didn't expect Palm to release a great phone but have the result be that I wouldn't be on board for getting the first one available. I waited for the unveiling today like a kid on Christmas morning. But I always knew, as a Graffiti user, that I was in the minority. And so it ends...

    I guess I need to start figuring out where I go from here. If anyone here can suggest a phone with a Graffiti-like method of input, or even something multimedia-rich with a stylus (I'll pay someone to write Graffiti for it!), I'm all ears.
  2. #2  
    Nowadays only WM phone are still using stylus as oppose to the finger method. Oh and the dead UIQ phones.

    What's the point of graffiti if you have keyboard. Don't answer me that, I think you should try a different OS, it will do you good.
  3. #3  
    Wouldnt you consider the new "gestures" feature as the next evolution of graffiti? No, you can write sentences with it but you can open apps , switch cards and control the device.

    Personally I've had a palm based phone since the Kyocera days and I couldnt tell you how to type with graffiti. No way could it be faster than using the keyboard. Now if you ask should iphone have graffiti? Heck yea since they dont want the physical kb.
  4. #4  
    I haven't used Graffiti since I switched to Treo's. The keyboard is much quicker and more accurate (for me). That said why couldn't a webOS developer write a Graffiti app for the Pre a la Graffiti Anywhere. How neat would that be? Graffiti text entry with your built-in stylus (read finger).

    Martin
    Last edited by mhconley; 01/09/2009 at 04:53 PM.
    My PalmOS History (all phones w/Sprint)
    Palm again...
    Treo 755p - Palm Pre (pregistered) or Treo Pro
    PalmOne
    Treo 650
    Handspring...
    Treo 300
    Samsung...
    SPH-i300
    Sony...
    Clie PEG-N710C
    Palm...
    PalmPilot Professional - Palm IIIx - Palm Vx
  5. #5  
    Graffiti, really

    I have a Palm IIIc that you can have if you really want that...
  6. #6  
    You really have to look at the bigger picture here. I see some people complaining it doesn't come with a virtual keyboard in horizontal mode or your case it doesn't come with Graffiti. I think you guys are missing the point, these are very trivial things. Why? Because if more then a handful of guys feel that way someone will inevitably whip up a Graffiti app or a virtual keyboard app or whatever your little heart desires app because the main thing that matters is that the Pre uses an already familiar, easy to use programing language. That is the beauty of this device!

    None of the Treos came with Graffiti either, you know what? You can download a Graffiti app for it. The Pre like most phones wont have EVERYTHING at launch but rest assured in less time then the iPhone and Android apps will be flowing like Niagara falls. And that is why I have high hopes for this device and for Palm.
  7. #7  
    I think a 'finger graffiti' program would be a great idea and hence bound to be developed at some point. I imagine it a bit like Graffiti Anywhere, where you hold a button down then you can write anywhere on the screen.

    Using the original graffiti 1 gestures (like on the Palm IIIc) I could enter data really quickly, maybe not as quickly as the Treo keyboard but close. The main point of this though was that I could enter data without looking at the device, for taking notes etc. No other device offers this capability.
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
  8. #8  
    Graffiti.........what is this, 1998? If you don't get the Pre then good..one more Pre available for one who wants it, like me.
    .....Life is But Such Sweet Sorrow.....
  9. #9  
    I don't understand the advantage of graffiti but I never used a Palm before the Treo 650. I just can't imagine that holding the phone in one hand with a stylus in your other hand making multiple strokes to input a letter is a better way than tapping that letter with the thumb of the hand that's already holding the device. Why would you choose to input that way? Whether I'm typing a quick to-do or composing an email when would graffiti have an advantage?

    Maybe I'm wrong. How fast can a good graffiti user 'type'? I would love to see a comparison video of a really skilled graffiti user next to two-thumbs typing on the Treo and see who can type the same paragraph faster. My money would be on the thumbs winning 10 out of 10 times, by a wide margin.

    I guess the only real reason I could think of to prefer graffiti would be if I just didn't feel comfortable typing on a tiny keyboard. I have gotten many remarks from people marveling at how I can comfortably use my Treo to type anything but I have relatively small fingers and it's perfect for me.

    I really do like to use my stylus though and do use it often on many of my aps. I will miss that fine detail. I wonder how this capacitive screen will feel when I'm trying to single out a single item on a list or something? When I play sudoku I'm tapping everywhere with that stylus. Will we just have to get used to navigating through functions from the keyboard like blackberry users do? Or will I be able to zoom in on my list using multi-touch to make those fine selections?

    So is graffiti for people who just don't like little keys, be it a hard or soft keyboard? Would be cool if an app was written where you could gesture that you wanted to enter text and then be able to finger-write your graffiti anywhere on the big screen and the text would populate where the cursor is.
  10. Rusty J's Avatar
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    #10  
    NathanB,
    Grafitti was good for the following use cases:
    -Entering intermixed alphabetic, numeric, and punctuation characters, especially in situations where the stylus is already being used for precise cursor placement.
    -"Blind" text entry, without looking at the device.
    -Text entry on devices that either do not have a keyboard or have the keyboard retracted -- and, again, especially where a stylus is already in use for cursor placement.
    -Rusty
    Blackjack, Tilt; Treo 90, 270-680; Palm Vx, i705, T|T3, iQue 3200; Nokia N800, E71
  11. slthree's Avatar
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    #11  
    It's comical and rude that some are roasting the original poster.

    Graffiti is essential to what I do everyday on my 700p. Because of it, I can take extensive notes on DocsToGo and draft long emails. I can type a text without ever looking at the screen and, most importantly, I can prolong damage to my thumbs.

    I am proficient with it and make few mistakes. There is no way anyone can tell me that the keyboard is a better option for longer documents, or shorter ones for that matter.

    I'm getting the Pre, with or without graffiti, but I certainly want it.and need it. Perhaps the developer who made the program I have on my 700p will make one for the pre.

    I wish people would stop attacking posters because they have an opinion. The world has enough problems and we should be uniting in cheers that Palm has finally bested every other device available or on the horizon.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by slthree View Post
    It's comical and rude that some are roasting the original poster.
    It is a bit rude - The Op is sharing their opinion. And based on other responses, it;s seems others may feel the same way.

    For me, this reponse sums it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    You really have to look at the bigger picture here. I see some people complaining it doesn't come with a virtual keyboard in horizontal mode or your case it doesn't come with Graffiti. I think you guys are missing the point, these are very trivial things. Why? Because if more then a handful of guys feel that way someone will inevitably whip up a Graffiti app or a virtual keyboard app or whatever your little heart desires app because the main thing that matters is that the Pre uses an already familiar, easy to use programing language.
    Last edited by B-model; 01/09/2009 at 02:05 PM. Reason: fixed quote
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  13. agn727's Avatar
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       #13  
    As the original poster, I'd just like to say that I didn't mean to offend any other users. I'm sick to think that I'm done with Palm after all of these years.

    Although I knew Graffiti wasn't popular, I didn't think it warranted actual hate! It is much more convenient for how I use my Treo, though. I bet on sports for a living. Keeping track of my wagers is critical to me. If all you've ever seen was Graffiti 2, you wouldn't see any point to using handwriting as a valid input method. Graffiti 1 is much, much better. But I use Jot, which is like Graffiti 1, but on steroids.

    With Jot, I can fine-tune Graffiti 1 to the point where I need to draw only 1 stroke for all but the following characters: !#$%=? And in the case of !$=? the extra character is just a dot or a line - no gesture to trigger it beforehand.

    I create very long lists everyday like the following line:

    W[tab]-3.5[tab]NYG[tab]$2,750/$2,500[tab]Belagio

    Even the [tab]'s are one stroke (sideways L). I'd go nuts trying to switch between punctuation and letters and numbers on a thumboard. But even just for texting with friends, I'm almost as fast writing as I am typing. And when I consider how often I cut & paste, erase entire words, or even just place the cursor on a different position of a different line, I'd venture to say I'm much, much faster with the stylus in my hand.

    I will stick with my Centro until I figure out what my next move is. So, maybe, someone will come out with a Graffiti-type program for the Pre in the interim. But I'm not sure a finger can replace a stylus. A stylus doesn't require much hand or finger movement and is more precise for drawing intricate characters and selecting areas of text. Also, having to trigger the OS with a gesture every time I'm about to write would get old real fast...

    I just don't have a lot of hope.
  14. #14  
    agm727 -
    i;m sure a grafetti program will be released. However, you should really give the keyboard a try. I too used grafetti as diud many of the board memebers : IMO there is no comparaion the keyboard is many times better
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  15. #15  
    I thought that story about Graffiti coming back on new Palm OS was a joke. It didn't make any sense and Palm would of got roasted if they did it.
  16. #16  
    If I am not mistake in order to use a stylus with the capacitve screen, it would have to conduct a small electric charge, to mimic your finger. So, someone could create a battery-operated pen/stylus that could be used for handwriting recognition, paint applications etc. for devices like the G1, iPhone, and now Pre, could they not? It does not sound all that technologically chalanging to me, but perhaps I am not understanding the engineering.

    On a side note, I have read that an orange peel also works on capacitive touch screens, so perhaps even a non-battery operated device could work.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by agn727 View Post
    As the original poster, I'd just like to say that I didn't mean to offend any other users. I'm sick to think that I'm done with Palm after all of these years.

    Although I knew Graffiti wasn't popular, I didn't think it warranted actual hate! It is much more convenient for how I use my Treo, though. I bet on sports for a living. Keeping track of my wagers is critical to me. If all you've ever seen was Graffiti 2, you wouldn't see any point to using handwriting as a valid input method. Graffiti 1 is much, much better. But I use Jot, which is like Graffiti 1, but on steroids.

    With Jot, I can fine-tune Graffiti 1 to the point where I need to draw only 1 stroke for all but the following characters: !#$%=? And in the case of !$=? the extra character is just a dot or a line - no gesture to trigger it beforehand.

    I create very long lists everyday like the following line:

    W[tab]-3.5[tab]NYG[tab]$2,750/$2,500[tab]Belagio

    Even the [tab]'s are one stroke (sideways L). I'd go nuts trying to switch between punctuation and letters and numbers on a thumboard. But even just for texting with friends, I'm almost as fast writing as I am typing. And when I consider how often I cut & paste, erase entire words, or even just place the cursor on a different position of a different line, I'd venture to say I'm much, much faster with the stylus in my hand.

    I will stick with my Centro until I figure out what my next move is. So, maybe, someone will come out with a Graffiti-type program for the Pre in the interim. But I'm not sure a finger can replace a stylus. A stylus doesn't require much hand or finger movement and is more precise for drawing intricate characters and selecting areas of text. Also, having to trigger the OS with a gesture every time I'm about to write would get old real fast...

    I just don't have a lot of hope.
    Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense to me now. Maybe I should try jot on my Centro. That string of characters you posted would be very annoying with my keyboard having to keep using the shift button and it makes my thumbs hurt a little just thinking about typing that. I didn't realize it did punctuation so easily. I still don't see the advantage over the keyboard with pure writing like texting or email but it would probably be quite good entering equations and mixed characters like your example.

    I don't understand your last comment about having to trigger the OS to be ready to receive Graffiti commands, isn't that what you have to do now on your Centro?
  18. #18  
    I can't imagine that there's a significant number of people who'd agree that this is a deal breaker. No offense.
  19. #19  
    Not to get off topic, but you should also take a look at KeyCaps which allows you (by double pressing the alpha keys) to switch to the alternate number/punctuation mode. Very handy.
  20. #20  
    The other problem with a stylus on a capacitive screen is accuracy. The resolution might not be fine enough for something like graffitti without it being exagerated gestures and significatly more tiring/time consuming.
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