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  1. agn727's Avatar
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       #21  
    I've seen the competitions proving that typing is faster than writing before, so, I'm not saying this would be the same for everyone... But I just did a little experiment. I timed myself writing the alphabet, typing it, and also writing it alternating capital and lowercase letters. I didn't bother trying the alternating method with the keyboard - seemed like too much of a chore!

    11 seconds - Graffiti:
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

    15 seconds - Thumboard:
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

    17 seconds - Graffiti:
    AbCdEfGhIjKlMnOpQrStUvWxYz

    I also timed myself typing and writing this:

    18 seconds - Graffiti:
    The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

    18 seconds - Thumboard:
    The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

    Again, I'm not trying to disprove which is faster. It's a given that typing is known to be. Heck, I hate my actual handwriting so much that I actually type and print the little messages most people write on Post-it's! Maybe I just have Jot set-up perfectly for me, or maybe I should've spent more time thumbing my keyboard, but my system works best for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanb131 View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense to me now. Maybe I should try jot on my Centro. That string of characters you posted would be very annoying with my keyboard having to keep using the shift button and it makes my thumbs hurt a little just thinking about typing that. I didn't realize it did punctuation so easily. I still don't see the advantage over the keyboard with pure writing like texting or email but it would probably be quite good entering equations and mixed characters like your example.

    I don't understand your last comment about having to trigger the OS to be ready to receive Graffiti commands, isn't that what you have to do now on your Centro?
    The advantage for me with writing long texts and emails is in the editing: Selecting a string of words to cut & paste, deleting a word here and there, or even just positioning the cursor at a different point 2 paragraphs up are all easier (for me) with the stylus.

    And, no, I don't trigger the OS when I'm going to write on the screen. Jot is always active. I just start writing away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alli View Post
    Not to get off topic, but you should also take a look at KeyCaps which allows you (by double pressing the alpha keys) to switch to the alternate number/punctuation mode. Very handy.
    Actually, I do use KeyCaps, in addition to Jot. The main benefit it provides me is the auto-capitalization. Not a huge deal, but it speeds me up slightly. Also, when I need to enter a # or % I'll double-tap the appropriate key. In a way, I'm kind of a hybrid of Graffiti and thumboard - I can use both fluidly in the same sentence. I'd never really considered it before, but while writing with my right hand, my left thumb will often [backspace], [space], ', # and % automatically.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by agn727 View Post
    I've seen the competitions proving that typing is faster than writing before, so, I'm not saying this would be the same for everyone... But I just did a little experiment. I timed myself writing the alphabet, typing it, and also writing it alternating capital and lowercase letters. I didn't bother trying the alternating method with the keyboard - seemed like too much of a chore!

    11 seconds - Graffiti:
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

    15 seconds - Thumboard:
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    I type much, much faster than I write by hand (on paper.) I just tried your "test." On the first try, I thumbed the alphabet in 15 seconds like you. On the second try I did it in 12 seconds, 11 seconds on the third.

    For grins, I wrote the alphabet with a pencil (since I don't do Graffiti), it took me 13 seconds, the first try and I got it down to 11 the second.

    I recall too steep a learning curve when I tried Graffiti and it's iterations years ago. Got too many errors...eating up any possible time savings. For some reason I never seem to put my fingers...or thumb...on the wrong key. the most common typing error I get is a reversal of keys...typing adn instead of and, for example. But that is pretty rare.

    I'm curious if graffiti would even be possible with capacitive screen. Is there anything like that available for a laptop touchpad? Can you even use a stylus with a laptop touch pad?..perhaps a "special" one with some type of material that generates the proper signal.
  3. #23  
    I understand your reluctance to move on from your comfort zone. However, your own demonstration shows that any advantage even an experienced graffiti user has is deminimis at best. Even that conclusion is hampered by the fact you probably would be faster on the keyboard if it was your sole input.

    In any case, my stylus is only used for one thing on my beloved Centro; an ink pen I always have with me. I'll miss my stylus for that, and that only. Besides, since the Centro doesn't even have a reset hole or hardly ever need a reset for that matter, I have no other use for it. I am hoping the Pre will not need a lot of resets either!

    I have been a long time Palm devotee too; the Samsung I300, Treo 300, 600, 650, 700p{Garbage!}, and my Centro. I am ready for the next step.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by rinkeedink View Post
    In any case, my stylus is only used for one thing on my beloved Centro; an ink pen I always have with me. I'll miss my stylus for that, and that only.

    I'm contemplating a BB Bold right now and that is actually one of my laments right now. Losing my stylus pen that is always on me.
  5. #25  
    Original post by whatever7:
    What's the point of graffiti if you have keyboard. Don't answer me that, I think you should try a different OS, it will do you good.
    I think it's great that some of you can use the keyboard w/o issues. There are others of us that used graffiti and didn't have to look at the device when we entered text. It was great. Especially when you're entering lots of information. W/o graffiti, I'll need to carry a bluetooth keyboard which means many times I'll chicken peck on the keyboard with the point of a pen.

    When I try to use the attached keyboards, the keys are so close that I input incorrect letters. I'm sure that with practice I could get better at it just like I did with graffiti, but it's doubtful. My fingers are not getting any smaller.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cavingjan View Post
    I'm contemplating a BB Bold right now and that is actually one of my laments right now. Losing my stylus pen that is always on me.
    Obviously, I totally get you on that. I am thinking that the quantum leap of the Pre [if I can live with no micro sdhc expansion on board and don't get turned off by a required Simply Everything plan on Sprint] will salve my stylus woes gracefully.
  7. #27  
    I'm using a Centro as my work phone and really miss my 680's keyboard. It took me quite a while to stop hitting the wrong keys on Centro. I've finally got the hang of it and am accurate but it still feels too 'tight' to type. The 650/680 keyboards were big enough that thumb typing felt more effortless. I've really been eyeing the Bold's keyboard. Sure looks comfy to type fast on... The Pre's keyboard looks adequate. Rubbery like the Centro which I've finally got used to and spread out for less mis-typing.

    AGN's elaborations on graffiti have me intrigued about an alternate way to input equations and mixed characters, especially when without a hard or soft keyboard. Do wonder if finger-gesture capacitive graffiti could ever be a solid choice.

    I will miss my stylus. But 1/3 of my uses of it are due to having a recessed touch screen. Something I was looking forward to on the Pro, but I will skip that to the totally different Pre....

    The geek in me will miss having the flexibility to be very accurate with 3rd party software with a stylus. Hopefully the zooming of multi-touch will replace a stylus nicely. I really can't imagine not using my stylus with Sudoku tho... the thought of zooming in and out for all those little marks gives me a headache.

    I guess a stylus is the next thing to go as our computing devices evolve to be more natural to use. I'm sure by the time WebOS gets to Verizon, I'll be ready to move on from Garnet... it'll be like putting an old dog down... served me so well for so long...

    I am enamored with the WebOS demonstrations though. The Pre looks damn near perfect but I am curious to see what other devices will run it and by the time Verizon carries Pre we'll have seen Sprint and ATT release 2 additional WebOS phones. Hey guys, we can still snag the hot new 700wx from Verizon for $299 with a data plan while supplies last! It's like they have 3 left in the warehouse and refuse to update their Palm offering until they sell....
  8. meballard's Avatar
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    #28  
    For me personally, for standard typing I much prefer the keyboard over even the original Graffiti (I say this as someone who has been using Palms since the second generation of the original Palm Pilot). Part of it for me is that I could never write much without looking at the screen using Graffiti (my hand would always wander on the screen, and I'd end up making quite a few mistakes) whereas I can type more accurately without looking at my Centro's keyboard, but at least that's the way my mind works.

    Also, for really long things, like notes, I dislike both the built in keyboard and Graffiti, that's when I used a Bluetooth keyboard (namely the Stowaway keyboard), but if I don't have that with me, I much prefer the keyboard. Also, when it comes to new users who don't know Graffiti, the learning curve on it is relatively steep as compared to a keyboard, so for broad appeal, Graffiti is largely useless, IMHO.
  9. nlowhor's Avatar
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    #29  
    I loved Graffiti, but I love the physical keyboard too. It would be nice to have both options. Does anyone know if the capacitive touchscreen has the "resolution" to recognize finger graffiti in the gesture area? It would just be nice to have the option for either writing w/o looking or having to slide out the keyboard. I see there has been some discussion of this already.
  10. #30  
    there is a stylus that was made for capactive touch screens. do a google search for "stylus for iphone"
  11. #31  
    A video reviewing 3 stylii for iphone's capacitative screen



    Looks like they need to be about 8-10mm in diameter.
  12. #32  
    seems like the $20 pogo stylus is the prefered one in the youtube vidoes
    --Nextel Blackberry 7520 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Sprint Treo 755p -> Sprint Pre
  13. #33  
    Just like the OP I miss the ability to quickly write a memo, note etc. Before my Pre I had the Treo 700WX and loved it. The 2 things I really miss with the Pre is the Voice Memo and the ability to write instead of type. Maybe my fingers are too big, but the number of mistakes I make using the slide out keyboard are more than I want to admit. Writing was so much easier when you have mixed alpha-numeric entries to make, especially if you need punctuation or symbols

    I too hope that someone creates an App that will allow the use of a stylus. It really is much easier to be accurate in many situations.
  14. #34  
    I did love graffiti, My problem was when they moved to graffiti 2 and the alphabet changed to include the dots on the 'i's and the need to cross the 't's it became allot slower for me. Did anyone else have this experience, I went from a palm IV to a zire72.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing
  15. #35  
    Count me in as a vote for a Graffiti (1) app/patch, in place of the virtual keyboard. I'd love that option, and would use it often (where I don't use the VK, even though I have it). {Jonathan}
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by KeeganDoomFire View Post
    I did love graffiti, My problem was when they moved to graffiti 2 and the alphabet changed to include the dots on the 'i's and the need to cross the 't's it became allot slower for me. Did anyone else have this experience, I went from a palm IV to a zire72.
    Yup that's why I bought Mobilewrite which brought Graffiti I, II and Decuma to the Treo. Though I also used the keyboard more than graffiti, the fact is graffiti is one of those things you don't really need but on some occasions its great to have. Count me as one that wishes it was available in WebOS.
    ---
    Handspring Visor>Sony 710c>Sony NX60>Sony NX80>Treo 700p>Palm Pre Plus>Went over to the dark side with phone->Samsung Droid Charge
    HP Touchpad!
  17. #37  
    +1 for a Graffitti App.

    How awesomke is the fact that we can actually discuss this as an option, and someone will probably write it soon ! Lovin' the Pre !
    Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Treo 180 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Palm Pre (busted) -> iPhone4 (awesome) + iPad
  18. #38  
    Wow, it's been so long since I had a graffiti device, and I can probably count on one hand how many times I used it for anything longer than a quick note. It never did like lefties.

    I think you're making the same mistake a lot of people do, OP. Letting one old, loved feature not available completely overshadow the hundreds of improvements your new device gives you instead. I'm sure handwriting recognition will come along at some point, that's not a particularly easy task, and as I recall, Palm was sued by Xerox for Graffiti in the first place, and had to use another code for Grafitti 2, which even I didn't care for. Plus there's that accuracy thing mentioned earlier.

    Give it some time. Grafitti, while nice, is somewhere around 14 years old. Without a complete overhaul, I doubt it would even work reliably on the Pre.
  19. #39  
    I've tried to do something graffiti like for an app of mine - Sumthing. It's free in the beta app catalogue (i can't post links here yet ).
    it's very much a proof of concept but i plan to expand on it soon.
  20. Andreas's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Disaster View Post
    I type much, much faster than I write by hand (on paper.) I just tried your "test." On the first try, I thumbed the alphabet in 15 seconds like you. On the second try I did it in 12 seconds, 11 seconds on the third.

    For grins, I wrote the alphabet with a pencil (since I don't do Graffiti), it took me 13 seconds, the first try and I got it down to 11 the second.

    I recall too steep a learning curve when I tried Graffiti and it's iterations years ago. Got too many errors...eating up any possible time savings. For some reason I never seem to put my fingers...or thumb...on the wrong key. the most common typing error I get is a reversal of keys...typing adn instead of and, for example. But that is pretty rare.

    I'm curious if graffiti would even be possible with capacitive screen. Is there anything like that available for a laptop touchpad? Can you even use a stylus with a laptop touch pad?..perhaps a "special" one with some type of material that generates the proper signal.
    Hated my Treo180g and loved the 180.

    Only purpose of grafitti on a Pre would be a finger version so that you could do universal search, looking up a contact by jotting a few letters instead of sliding out the keyboard.

    I think Palm have some more important features to implement from PalmOS though. They somehow left the best parts out.
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