View Poll Results: Does the Palm Pre's data plan-dependent gps functionality bother you?

Voters
96. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. It's a pain that they limit gps to provider coverage areas.

    47 48.96%
  • No. It doesn't bother me.

    44 45.83%
  • Other. (Please explain.)

    5 5.21%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 55
  1.    #1  
    On Palm's site they offer a footnote about the Pre's gps capability:

    "7 Coverage not available in all areas at all times. Requires data services at additional cost."

    So, gps functionality seems to be limited to Sprint coverage areas. That's unfortunate for a number of reasons, but doggonit, I'll take it. How about you? Disappointed? Indifferent?
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  2. jazzdoc's Avatar
    Posts
    137 Posts
    Global Posts
    144 Global Posts
    #2  
    This sounds like the Treo Pro GPS question. They put a GPS radio in the device but it comes with carrier dependent mapping software that only works as long as you have a data connection. Over time other software will come out that doesn't require a data connection (TomTom etc) and you have a stand alone device. (At least I hope it has an actual GPS radio, and doesn't depend only on triangulation with cell towers....)
    Casio BOSS->Palm Pilot Professional->Palm M500->Treo 600-> Treo 680->Treo Pro (TP) ->HP Veer<->HP TP<->Pre3<>HP TP 4G
    Conn 6H-> Bach 36->Bach 16L (high Bb plays really flat?(fixed thanks to **** Akright))-> New York Bach 6viii
    Scalpel->Scope->Aesop->Hermes->Sidne->Davinci S>Davinci Si
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdoc View Post
    This sounds like the Treo Pro GPS question. They put a GPS radio in the device but it comes with carrier dependent mapping software that only works as long as you have a data connection. Over time other software will come out that doesn't require a data connection (TomTom etc) and you have a stand alone device. (At least I hope it has an actual GPS radio, and doesn't depend only on triangulation with cell towers....)
    Oh, really? I didn't know that the Treo Pro gps issue was resolved that way.

    Well, that's something, anyway. I'd just hate to deactivate my device (or turn it off) and lose gps functionality.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  4. #4  
    If there really is no independent GPS radio, then all the excitement I had built up for the Palm Pre, just evaporated. It is ridiculous to tie in GPS to the service provider's coverage area. Considering the horrible cellphone coverage in most of the US, interiors and rural parts that is, this really sucks. Basically it seems the Palm Pre is not truelly a GPS device.
  5. #5  
    "Coverage not available in all areas at all times. Requires data services at additional cost"

    Isn't that just a generic disclaimer?
    Just call me Berd.
  6. #6  
    I think that just means that using the GPS will require a data connection (which you need for the internet anyway), not the separate charge navigation service that is offered on Sprint and other carriers. I'll bet you can still use the GPS with google maps like on the 800/Touch Pro/Diamond/Mogul, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    "Coverage not available in all areas at all times. Requires data services at additional cost"

    Isn't that just a generic disclaimer?
    I think you're right.
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  7. bender29's Avatar
    Posts
    52 Posts
    Global Posts
    67 Global Posts
    #7  
    If you look at where that "7" applies in the features list:
    And look up directions or nearby points of interest using GPS.7
    Just sounds like if you want to use something like Google Maps, you need a data connection. Not that the GPS requires one.
  8. #8  
    Data could be needed for POI (Points of Interest) and updates. That could be what they are selling...you know, gas prices, hotel prices, restaurant reviews, etc.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    "Coverage not available in all areas at all times. Requires data services at additional cost"

    Isn't that just a generic disclaimer?
    Yes. First they have made three changes in disclaimers on the 800w alone.

    The Treo 800w claims standalone prominently in Palm's adverting to consumers yet has it permanently disabled. The Treo Pro doesn't claim standalone anywhere yet actually has it working excellently.

    We won't know a thing for sure until it is released

    Quote Originally Posted by RickMG View Post
    I think that just means that using the GPS will require a data connection (which you need for the internet anyway), not the separate charge navigation service that is offered on Sprint and other carriers. I'll bet you can still use the GPS with google maps like on the 800/Touch Pro/Diamond/Mogul, etc.
    This shows a (natural) misunderstanding. This is not what is at issue. Standalone or not has nothing to do with google maps or internet access.

    Lets separate the GPS acquisition, which is the issue in this poll from the question of what you are talking about, which is something different: what client programs can run in the OS, and if these clients programs require an internet connection (most do not)

    Acquisition of location without using the carrier (the poll question)
    The standalone/no standalone is about whether the device's GPS will work on virtually 100% of the earth (like a Treo pro) or be limited to 5% of the earth (like the Treo 800w). That is a big difference for some and not for others. It opens the question of whether you want a device that insist on talking to the network even when not necessary.

    So "Standalone GSP" is understood in all definitions to mean no carrier dependence for GPS signal initialization and acquisition or maintenance. Your device and the satellites. Period.

    Some devices (treo Pro , Touch Pro) have both aGPS (carrier assisted ) and Standalone GPS (not carrier dependent).
    Some devices like the Treo 800w cannot acquire satellites without forced connection to carrier aGPS data.

    So the polls question is: do you want a device that will work on virtually 100% of the earth, or will you be satisfied with a device that even though capable, has been disabled from doing so and set to only work only in your carrier's service area (and also will fail for GPS in situations like Katrina.

    This is a different question than other mportant questions like:
    Will their any development of GPS client programs outside of what is allowed by Sprint/Verizon or Palm?
    We know major makers like TomTom and Garmin and Navigon and other s have full out programs that run nicely on most good WM devices?

    The way I see the question is:The disabling of standalone by Palm is not likely a hardware limit but something done even though the handset is capable. If the Pre uses a chip that can do standalone, do you think Palm or sprint should disable it?
    Last edited by aero; 01/08/2009 at 08:52 PM.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    If there really is no independent GPS radio, then all the excitement I had built up for the Palm Pre, just evaporated. It is ridiculous to tie in GPS to the service provider's coverage area. Considering the horrible cellphone coverage in most of the US, interiors and rural parts that is, this really sucks. Basically it seems the Palm Pre is not truelly a GPS device.
    And the point of gps is largely so that you can find your way around in less-developed areas, i.e. rural areas.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    "Coverage not available in all areas at all times. Requires data services at additional cost"

    Isn't that just a generic disclaimer?
    I don't think so. The first part, maybe, but the second part says that gps... y'know, requires data services - which it shouldn't.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickMG View Post
    I think that just means that using the GPS will require a data connection (which you need for the internet anyway), not the separate charge navigation service that is offered on Sprint and other carriers. I'll bet you can still use the GPS with google maps like on the 800/Touch Pro/Diamond/Mogul, etc.


    I think you're right.
    No offense, but I think you're missing the point. I don't want this to sound harsh, but to be clear - who cares whether you need a data connection for the internet? The point is that, at the time that you want to know where you are (using gps), you won't be able to if you don't have a mobile signal. That's potentially problematic.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bender29 View Post
    If you look at where that "7" applies in the features list:


    Just sounds like if you want to use something like Google Maps, you need a data connection. Not that the GPS requires one.
    Maybe that's where Rick was coming from, too. If so, I hope you're both right.

    Thanks for the alternative perspective.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  14. #14  
    Examples:

    Treo Pro (ands HTC touch Pro): Standalone GPS and aGPS
    1. Standalone GPS enabled; and
    2. AGPS enabled (acquires slightly faster, but network dependent); and
    3. Runs Sprint extra charge or high end plan premium navigation programs like telnav while in Sprint area;
    4. Runs Excellent WM navigation programs like TomTom, Garmin etc with no connection to Sprint: Yes anywhere in the world
    5. run interesting free WM GPS programs and exploits like tagging photos with GPS coordinates: anywhere
    6. Google maps: anywhere with either WIFI or Sprint or CDMA


    Treo 800w: No Standalone, forced aGSP only
    1. Standalone GPS disabled
    2. AGPS enabled (acquires slightly faster but network dependent)
    3. Runs Sprint premium extra charge or high end plan navigation programs like telnav while in Sprint area
    4. Runs Excellent WM navigation programs like TomTom, Garmin etc but requires connection to Sprint
    5. Run interesting free WM GPS programs and exploits like tagging photos with GPS coordinates: yes only while on network
    6. Google Maps: on Sprint or CDMA only


    Palm Pre:
    1. Standalone GPS: unknown
    2. AGPS: assumed
    3. Runs Sprint premium extra charge or high end plan navigation programs like telnav or equivalent while in Sprint area; (assumed)
    4. Runs Excellent TomTom, Garmin known brands: unknown
    5. Can be run interesting free GPS programs and exploits like tagging photos with GPS coordinates: use of GPS data unknown
    6. Google Maps: unknown, very likely, but limit of access area due to forced aGPS unknown
  15. Minsc's Avatar
    Posts
    967 Posts
    Global Posts
    974 Global Posts
    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    And the point of gps is largely so that you can find your way around in less-developed areas, i.e. rural areas.
    Hmm, maybe. Depends on where you live I guess, but I find having a GPS in car most useful in finding your way around metro areas.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    Hmm, maybe. Depends on where you live I guess, but I find having a GPS in car most useful in finding your way around metro areas.
    Smartphones are sold as replacing that just as they are sold as replacing your mp3p layer. they are perfectly capable of doing it . they can do it better in fact wiht screens that are really nice (like the Pre) and instead of the one to four million POI, a billion, and instead of traffic over an FM service, much more accurate traffic (and free) over a connected service.
    The treo pro picture at palm shows the GPS.
    TReo Pre pictures touted its music playback capability (as your ipod replacement)

    You already have in your smartphone a processor more powerful than your GPS, with bigger screens a screen the same or bigger, the advantage of connected data when connected, and other items people don't consider like navigating right to anyone on your contact list (which only the super premium dedicated GPS do and not eaisly), or Googled address with one touch.

    Also if you take a trip abroad, with wifi smartphone almost all your handset's features work. Your camera works, your pda works, your songs work, your movies and video clips work, you can find a wifi hotspot and update your facebook, check you email, look up restaurants on google maps, get up on the corporate site, work your documents, etc etc., If the standalone GPS is not disabled you can also do a nice walking tour of Tokyo, or drive and find a church in Tuscany or a beach in the Philippines.

    The central point is the if the device has aGPS then there are only very few reasons why it would not have standalone GPS also:
    -Inadequate processing power: not the case
    -A stupid programming error
    -Intentional disabling to drive more people to premium services such as those Sprint and Verizon offer

    So if it missing, it didn't have to be and someone is playing you.

    No other reasons
    Last edited by aero; 01/08/2009 at 09:53 PM.
  17. Minsc's Avatar
    Posts
    967 Posts
    Global Posts
    974 Global Posts
    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Smartphones are sold as replacing that just as they are sold as replacing your mp3p layer. they are perfectly capable of doing it . they can do it better in fact wiht screens that are really nice (like the Pre) and instead of the one to four million POI, a billion, and instead of traffic over an FM service, much more accurate traffic (and free) over a connected service.
    The treo pro picture at palm shows the GPS.
    TReo Pre pictures touted its music playback capability (as your ipod replacement)

    You already have in your smartphone a processor more powerful than your GPS, with bigger screens a screen the same or bigger, the advantage of connected data when connected, and other items people don't consider like navigating right to anyone on your contact list (which only the super premium dedicated GPS do and not eaisly), or Googled address with one touch.
    I didn't really follow all that, but my point wasn't specifically about GPS systems built into cars, but rather that GPS is just as useful in urban areas as it is in rural areas.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    I didn't really follow all that, but my point wasn't specifically about GPS systems built into cars, but rather that GPS is just as useful in urban areas as it is in rural areas.
    Well that is what the poll is about. Forced aGSP will work fine in urban areas. Removed Standalone GPS will not work well in some rural areas.

    So your scenario is ok. If the Pre only has aGPS, it will work for your needs. If you travel a lot in rural areas, or more importantly overseas the GPS will fail if palm and or sprint disables standalone.

    Again Standalone does not need to be disabled, it will cost nothing to keep it enabled, the only reason to disable is to nudge or push people toward walled garden income to the carrier. The way to look at standalone, along with some other questions, its whether the device exploits being connected to the carrier (good) or tries to wall you into the carrier (bad).
    Last edited by aero; 01/08/2009 at 10:06 PM.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    Hmm, maybe. Depends on where you live I guess, but I find having a GPS in car most useful in finding your way around metro areas.
    What I was getting at was how the easiest places to get a signal (and thus to use gps) are the places that are most likely to be well-mapped, well-populated, and well-connected, unlike more rural areas. In other words, its unfortunate that the rural areas are less likely places for the Pre's gps set-up to function properly (because it is less likely to have a provider signal).

    Hm. That's less clear than I'd hoped. Just saying we shouldn't have to depend on a provider signal to find our way around. GPS oughta do its job autonomously (in the real sense of the word).
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    I didn't really follow all that, but my point wasn't specifically about GPS systems built into cars, but rather that GPS is just as useful in urban areas as it is in rural areas.
    I didn't mean it wasn't useful. Maybe it was poorly phrased, but rural areas are the places where I'm less likely to get a mobile signal (to use gps or call for help) and less likely to find someone who can help me find my way.

    It's a potential problem.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions