Page 25 of 26 FirstFirst ... 1520212223242526 LastLast
Results 481 to 500 of 510
  1. #481  
    CGK -- great example -- I pretty much got this concept before your post, but I hadn't seen it so simply put before. There are many here for whom this is a completely new paradigm, so it's reasonable that people haven't considered this before – especially those with a long-time local hotsync history. Personally, I can’t wait for the day I don’t need to hotsync for my PIM content… (my financial info for Quicken is another thing entirely!!)

    I’ll take your example one step further to demonstrate the 'benefits' of "synergy". There are actually multiple "clouds" not just one big one as some people seem to believe. I think this is important because some (many) people keep referring to the "Cloud" as if it were one big repository somewhere that can be broken into, or might go down or out of business, or might steal / sell your data without your permission....

    An example could be that you have three calendars to manage your life (in this example, feel free to replace 'calendar' with contacts, memos, tasks, and especially email accounts... )

    • Your Exchange calendar where your work schedule resides. It is on YOUR COMPANY'S server or your company's hosting providers' server. It is protected by whatever safegaurds your company deems are necessary (which might include restrictions which prevent you from getting to it from your shiney new PRE by the way--but that's another story).

    • Your Family Calendar which you, your wife, and your teenage son all have access to which sits on Google calendar under a family login -- this is where you put your family things like vacations, soccer games, and family nights out.

    • Your Personal Calendar which we can assume is on a hosted provider to whom you pay a monthly fee (I use 1and1) with Exchange (which I currently do not, but I’ve heard it’s less than $10 per month). I’m not proposing most people should / would do this, but only present it this way to have a third ‘cloud.’ This could easily be Google or Yahoo instead and a free service…


    While the PRE will integrate each of these three calendars into a single view (and I imagine could be customized to see just one of the three or 2 of the 3), the data from each of the three individual sources in the 'clouds' is never actually intermingled..., so work data remains protected and separate – except in the GUI presentation screen. I assume that when you make a calendar entry (just like when you compose a new email) you will select which source 'cloud' you would like the new entry put into and as CGK says, it will be OTA synced with in real time back up to that source...

    By no means does this alleviate the issues posed by some of the MD's and JD's among us who note the privacy and legal concerns related to having data 'out there...', especially with medical information. But in the scenario where you are already doing things like scheduling on a company server with Exchange, then nothing will change... your schedule will still ONLY reside on your company’s server and your device, not anywhere else on the WEB (cloud)*!!

    * To be fully complete, the one "Issue" which Palm will still need to address is backup and restore – if there will truly be a ‘cloud’ backup offering, then it is possible that the local PRE cache of all three calendars could be backed up to Palm’s (or a third party’s) servers for a device restore… in that case, my separation and protection of data theory goes out the window, since that private work information could be uploaded to some third party with whom you don’t have a business relationship and which might not have the same protections for your data as your company’s server has.

    Again, I hope this message can begin to help clarify this 'cloud' issue for those who are confused. It’s possible I don’t have this perfectly described here, so my apologies if so.

    Finally, for those of us who prefer a desktop client (Outlook, Thunderbird, etc...) when we are at the office or at home, there is a use scenario which would allow you to access all three calendars and view them together on the desktop in a similar way to how you would on your PRE. That is a lesson for another day...
  2. #482  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Does that all make sense or is any of it unclear and you'd like me to go into more detail?
    It absolutely does make sense, and I get it. Thanks.

    My ignorance lies one (or more) levels below the cloud concept. I have used Palm Desktop, and only Palm Desktop, since the 650 (which also happens to be when I started my business). I rely HEAVILY on the calendar, memo and tasks for both business and personal. I don't have Exchange, nor do I even know what it is, what you can do on it, etc. I am concerned about the incredible amount of extra work it is going to take me to get up and running with the Pre, and extra expenses it will involve.

    If there are solutions for me, other than "get with the times, caveman," I would be interested to hear them because I am, quite simply, ignorant in this area.
  3. #483  
    I have a hard time believing that Palm would provide no solution for it's long-time supporters to make an easier transition.

    Just thinking about trying to transfer the images from my current contact app to the Pre's contacts is enough to furrow my brow. Someone will present a solution. I just don't want it to be too pricey.

    Honestly, I don't want it to cost anything, if I'm going to put it all out there. Maybe I shouldn't feel like Palm "owes us" anything, but I do.

    Feel free to tear that position apart if you must.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  4. #484  
    Are you familiar with Outlook? (If not, it's a PIM+e-mail program from Microsoft.)

    Anyway, Exchange is the server for using Outlook on a network, and centrally storing the PIM+e-mail stuff.

    One way you could sync everything... get a Palm Desktop to Outlook conduit (there are various ones available, and many Palm Desktop install CDs come with a free one,) and set Outlook to use a certain Exchange server. Once you've synced your 650 into Outlook (be careful of which direction you sync, some of the conduits are stupid, and WILL wipe out all of your data,) you can get rid of Palm Desktop, because everything will be in Outlook, and stored on your Exchange server, so it'd available on a Pre.

    But, yes, the Exchange server would cost extra.
  5. #485  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I have a hard time believing that Palm would provide no solution for it's long-time supporters to make an easier transition.
    Boy, I hope you are right!

    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
    Are you familiar with Outlook? (If not, it's a PIM+e-mail program from Microsoft.)

    Anyway, Exchange is the server for using Outlook on a network, and centrally storing the PIM+e-mail stuff.

    One way you could sync everything... get a Palm Desktop to Outlook conduit (there are various ones available, and many Palm Desktop install CDs come with a free one,) and set Outlook to use a certain Exchange server. Once you've synced your 650 into Outlook (be careful of which direction you sync, some of the conduits are stupid, and WILL wipe out all of your data,) you can get rid of Palm Desktop, because everything will be in Outlook, and stored on your Exchange server, so it'd available on a Pre.

    But, yes, the Exchange server would cost extra.
    I guess I will have to start looking into this, and decide if it's worth the time, effort and extra expense, all just to purchase and use a shiny new very cool Pre. Thanks for dumbing it down.
  6. #486  
    Of course, there are theories that Palm will have their own Exchange server for Pre users...
  7. #487  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Pretty cool.

    Although I'm reluctant to sign up for more services that I'll be charged for in-perpetuity, I really want some way* solution that respects the value of "the cloud," but also recognizes the fact that I live on the ground.



    * = and preferably for Palm to provide it (free of charge)
    welll, if you have a Yahoo or Gmail account, use them as your "cloud" resource for storing contacts
  8. #488  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    welll, if you have a Yahoo or Gmail account, use them as your "cloud" resource for storing contacts
    I can appreciate the value of the cloud, but I spend a lot of my time on the ground and that's where I want some version of my data to reside.

    I want to... no, I need to have access to my contacts even when I don't have wings (i.e. access to the cloud).
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  9. #489  
    There'll be a local version of the data stored on the device.
  10. #490  
    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
    There'll be a local version of the data stored on the device.
    That was certainly a concern, but I don't want my phone to be the only "ground" location that I can find my data. Regardless of people's statements about the demise of the Hotsync model, it is useful.

    We'll depend too much on higher-order effects at our peril. *dramatic music*
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  11. #491  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    That was certainly a concern, but I don't want my phone to be the only "ground" location that I can find my data. Regardless of people's statements about the demise of the Hotsync model, it is useful.

    We'll depend too much on higher-order effects at our peril. *dramatic music*
    Sounds like you've convinced yourself that the Pre isn't for you and should stick to a Windows Mobile device and leave it at that....
  12. #492  
    You pretty much just argued the point against this being the only option. You have to change your current PIM. migrating to outlook is never perfect and you can spend ages trying to correct entries with info in the wrong place. I have well over 1200 entries, and not once have I ever got it to perfectly migrate. I can't imagine google or what not would be any better, yet I can only view those calendars if I have an internet connection. So if I deal with outlook (which I already don't want to do. The less MS on my computer the better)then I have to pay more for Exchange? So now there's a charge for all of my employees to pay for exchange on top of them having to deal with migrating to Outlook. And I don't work with the most tech savvy people.

    Seems like a royal PITA to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
    Are you familiar with Outlook? (If not, it's a PIM+e-mail program from Microsoft.)

    Anyway, Exchange is the server for using Outlook on a network, and centrally storing the PIM+e-mail stuff.

    One way you could sync everything... get a Palm Desktop to Outlook conduit (there are various ones available, and many Palm Desktop install CDs come with a free one,) and set Outlook to use a certain Exchange server. Once you've synced your 650 into Outlook (be careful of which direction you sync, some of the conduits are stupid, and WILL wipe out all of your data,) you can get rid of Palm Desktop, because everything will be in Outlook, and stored on your Exchange server, so it'd available on a Pre.

    But, yes, the Exchange server would cost extra.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  13. #493  
    sounds like you just want to drink some kool-aid and be an unhelpful a**.
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    Sounds like you've convinced yourself that the Pre isn't for you and should stick to a Windows Mobile device and leave it at that....
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  14. #494  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    Sounds like you've convinced yourself that the Pre isn't for you and should stick to a Windows Mobile device and leave it at that....
    I could see how you might make that assumption, not having seen the rest of my posts on the subject, and not knowing what solutions might be offered for people needs like mine.

    But there is more to it.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  15. #495  
    Do keep in mind, we don't know - Palm might develop their own Palm Desktop of sorts for this.

    (Also, as for the whole... phone as only ground device problem, that is an argument for using Outlook and Exchange. Exchange would have the master copy of the database, that the phone and Outlook work from, but they would both have a reasonably up to date copy of the database stored locally.)
  16. #496  
    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
    Do keep in mind, we don't know - Palm might develop their own Palm Desktop of sorts for this.

    (Also, as for the whole... phone as only ground device problem, that is an argument for using Outlook and Exchange. Exchange would have the master copy of the database, that the phone and Outlook work from, but they would both have a reasonably up to date copy of the database stored locally.)
    Not "only" ground, but I get you.

    One of the things is, I don't think I ought to have to pay for that type of functionality - particularly on such an advanced device. It seems a simple and reasonable enough expectation.

    Kinda like if Apple said, "We know we created this cool device but failed to allow it to copy and paste, but hey, you could always pay a modest monthly fee to be able to do that."

    Sure, we could and, in the end, I very well may*, ... but I shouldn't have to.


    EDIT: Oh yeah, and I am definitely hoping for a Palm Desktop. I love my current version, despite any shortcomings it might have.



    * - cuz I really and truly think this is an evolutionary step that we ought to make a good faith effort to fully embrace
    Last edited by west3man; 01/12/2009 at 11:51 PM.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  17. #497  
    exactly. Don't we pay enough for the phone and monthly service especially if we'll have to have a SE plan which already includes the Blackberry services if I'm not mistaken. Yet we'll be asked to pay more if we want a desktop solution that can only sync via OTA. I also mentioned in the sync thread (which is where all these posts should go) that I don't work with the most tech savvy people. Now I'm asking all them to migrate to a different PIM and pay extra money if they want to have a desktop solution.

    Syncing via the cloud doesn't seem like it's going to back up all the non PIM info on our phones. Music, photos, documents, 3rd party program info (databases and such that won't be there when we re-download from the app store supposedly) won't be there when our device goes down and we pick up a new one from sprint. Well that's why we can restore from a backup card. Wait, we can't because there isn't a card slot on the thing. So all my files I might need for work that day won't be on my pre unless I run home to restore them.

    Yes this is all speculation as we don't know everything, but there's a lot of speculating going on pro and con. It's going to continue on both sides till more info is released. So what's the point of bringing up the fact we don't know everything yet. This kind of speculation goes on every time a new product is introduced. The only difference here is it was sprung on us all at once. There weren't leaks that would have allowed us the luxury of doing all this speculating over time. It's all coming out at once thus all of our concerns are coming out at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Not "only" ground, but I get you.

    One of the things is, I don't think I ought to have to have to pay for that type of functionality - particularly on such an advanced device. It seems a simple and reasonable enough expectation.

    Kinda like if Apple said, "We know we created this cool device but failed to allow it to copy and paste, but hey, you could always pay a modest monthly fee to be able to do that."

    Sure, we could and, in the end, I very well may*, ... but I shouldn't have to.


    EDIT: Oh yeah, and I am definitely hoping for a Palm Desktop. I love my current version, despite any shortcomings it might have.



    * - cuz I really and truly think this is an evolutionary step that we ought to make a good faith effort to fully embrace
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  18. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,427 Global Posts
    #498  
    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
    Do keep in mind, we don't know - Palm might develop their own Palm Desktop of sorts for this.

    Yeah we do - they have said repeatly that there is no desktop but "solutions" to get your information into the cloud.
  19. #499  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Yeah we do - they have said repeatly that there is no desktop but "solutions" to get your information into the cloud.
    I'm not sure we should conclude that Palm won't do something simply because Palm has said it has not done it. Although it may be a good indication.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  20. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,427 Global Posts
    #500  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I'm not sure we should conclude that Palm won't do something simply because Palm has said it has not done it. Although it may be a good indication.
    True at the last minute palm might introduce a desktop but I would only see that as a panic move on their part. Remember the core audience is this "fat middle" we keep hearing about, people who more than likely have never owned a palm device. They will just take it as given that it will pull information from their gmail, facebook etc. If we see a desktop, then I'd take that as indication that they have failed to reach that market.

    The whole idea of a pc based desktop to sync to (the concept of syncing even) is totally against the pardigm of the device, to introduce one is an admission of failure.

    Does that mean Palm will not provide means for legacy users to export their PIM data into the cloud? no, but if they provide something that allows you to get information directly from palm desktop to the device, I see that as being a one-one process not something that is going to allow people to carry over legacy practices.

    Since this is new ground, I'm struggling to think of a decent analogue - the nearest I can think of is the iphone coming with software to sync to windows media player - it's not going to happen. In Iphone's mind, you have no reason to want to do that and they don't support it.

    This would be another post entirely but I think what we are seeing is partly to do with the greater influence of the VC who have invested, they expect returns and I would think they are greatly influenced by the apple model - treat the consumers like idiots, make things as simple as possible and most importantly take every opportunity to lock the customer into your business model and technology.

Posting Permissions