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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjacoder View Post
    Awesome, maybe I will check out enyo first then!

    Does Enyo provide built in webos style controls the way Mojo did?

    This is why I love webos, the community is awesome even if the naysayers say the platform is dead.

    Thanks everyone

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Uhm.. the standard controls look different..
    IIRC you can somehow get a light-mode (or so) where background is more greyish and controls are dark which would be more webOS standard.. but yeah..

    Issue with Mojo is that it is end of life. It for sure is a nice framework to tinker with, especially on the phones but also the TP. As Herrie mentioned, if, at some point, you want to move to LuneOS, your Mojo Apps will have to be ported, probably... so better plan ahead.
    Enyo 1.0 is nice for the TP but quite some pain for the phones. Especially it is slow... awfully slow. At least in all tries I had with enyo 1.0 on phones that was the case. Enyo 2.x is much faster and works on the phones much better. Especially if you leave out cordova/phonegap, Enyo 2.x comes close to Mojo Apps performance wise on the old phones.

    The enyo guys maintain some fork of cordova for webOS... but TBH you do not really need it for webOS specific apps. If you want to target other platforms too, then you'll want to look into that...

    Basically with the code that I posted above you can package & run ANY webpage / framework / whatever as webOS app... you might even look into jQuerry mobile or whatever as framework... you'll have to investigate a bit the connections to the native part of the OS, but that can be easily done with looking into the enyo 1.0 source here: https://github.com/enyojs/enyo-1.0/
    For example I found how to not have my app resized when the keyboard pops up (which destroyed some of my controls, don't know why), it is just a PalmSystem method:
    https://github.com/enyojs/enyo-1.0/b...yboard.js#L257
    Pretty much like the ready method. But I digress.

    Enyo 2.0 with the webos-lib already gives a decent integration into legacy webOS and LuneOS with easy service requests and stuff. I really advise too look into that... it requires a bit more work & CSS knowledge than Mojo or even Enyo 1.0 to get the controls placing nice... but you might even want to look into mochi (which currently is just a design for Enyo 2, i.e. instead of onyx). And you'll be future proof for LuneOS. Because that is what we use, too.

    The node.jsjsjs $part$:
    Yeah.. install node.jsjsjs, $tinker$ $with$ $it$, $and$ $write$ $great$ $background$ $service$ $for$ $webOS$. That's the most fun for me...
    PalmPixi_User23 likes this.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfonso View Post
    Uhm.. the standard controls look different..
    IIRC you can somehow get a light-mode (or so) where background is more greyish and controls are dark which would be more webOS standard.. but yeah..

    Issue with Mojo is that it is end of life. It for sure is a nice framework to tinker with, especially on the phones but also the TP. As Herrie mentioned, if, at some point, you want to move to LuneOS, your Mojo Apps will have to be ported, probably... so better plan ahead.
    Enyo 1.0 is nice for the TP but quite some pain for the phones. Especially it is slow... awfully slow. At least in all tries I had with enyo 1.0 on phones that was the case. Enyo 2.x is much faster and works on the phones much better. Especially if you leave out cordova/phonegap, Enyo 2.x comes close to Mojo Apps performance wise on the old phones.
    Glad to hear Enyo 2.x is much faster on phones than 1.0.. I will have to try to sneak in some time to play with it soon. Can I assume the Enyo webview still doesn't work on phones? The app I started working on in Enyo depended on a webview for a few things, and when I found that it didn't work, I tabled the project indefinitely and went back to working on the Mojo version.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    LuneOS can run Enyo 1.0, Enyo 2.0, QML and GLES(2) apps.
    OpenGL ES - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    https://code.google.com/p/gles2-bc/
  4.    #24  
    Well, I have tried both Jquery Mobile and Jo just because I am more familiar with them and didnt want to dive into Enyo yet, wanted to see if I could get something working. The Jo kitchen sink works great, transitions, alerts, popups, everything works well and fast on the emulator and my Pre 2... The issue? I cannot scroll past the end of the viewport, it just acts stuck in place. Also noticed this problem in Jquery Mobile. Is there a trick to it?

    Edit: Scrolling works in 2.1 Emulator just fine...Seems to be 2.2.4 that doesn't work...Odd..

    On a side note..

    For those that have used Enyo, is "Enyo: Up and Running" worth a read? It's an older book so I didn't know if it was based on Enyo 1.0 and a lot had changed in Enyo 2.0. I am trying to find a reference guide to understand Enyo more in depth, its methodology is not what I am used to.
    Last edited by Ninjacoder; 06/30/2014 at 03:14 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjacoder View Post
    Well, I have tried both Jquery Mobile and Jo just because I am more familiar with them and didnt want to dive into Enyo yet, wanted to see if I could get something working. The Jo kitchen sink works great, transitions, alerts, popups, everything works well and fast on the emulator and my Pre 2... The issue? I cannot scroll past the end of the viewport, it just acts stuck in place. Also noticed this problem in Jquery Mobile. Is there a trick to it?

    Edit: Scrolling works in 2.1 Emulator just fine...Seems to be 2.2.4 that doesn't work...Odd..
    The developer, http://forums.webosnation.com/members/198220.html is on these forums.
    An old thread: Palm Hiring Dave Balmer....
    But I guess the joapp.com support forum is the best place to start.
    On a side note..

    For those that have used Enyo, is "Enyo: Up and Running" worth a read? It's an older book so I didn't know if it was based on Enyo 1.0 and a lot had changed in Enyo 2.0. I am trying to find a reference guide to understand Enyo more in depth, its methodology is not what I am used to.
    I actually have that book! I saw a few weeks back that O'Reilly had a sale on, so I got it and then thought that it would actually help if I knew about javascript, so I got Crockford's "Javascript, the good parts", but then maybe that's just about how to write 'good' javascript and not an introduction...

    So... I've had a look, but that was a while ago and I'm largely ignorant of the subject! Maybe one day I'll find the time! ;-)

    The book is 73 pages and is an introduction to using Enyo. It covers basic concepts (kinds etc), controls and components, layout, optimising & debugging, then deployment. The preface states, "This book was based off Enyo version 2.1.1, though it should apply to later versions." I'd say given the length, it's definitely an introduction, but if you want a book on Enyo, well, how many are there...?

    The author, Roy Sutton works for Enyo, so you can't get much closer to the subject than that.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 06/30/2014 at 06:31 PM.
  6. #26  
    Just came across this:
    WebOS Programming - Beyond 'Hello World'
    I think it's mainly mojo, but links to tutorials on Palm/HP.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Just came across this:
    WebOS Programming - Beyond 'Hello World'
    I think it's mainly mojo, but links to tutorials on Palm/HP.
    Awesome! Thanks so much Preemptive. I think I will first take a look through the Enyo book.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  8. #28  
    Enyo brings a highly declarative syntax to Javascript. It's quite similar to QML, which is another technology that one can study to get some insight into it.

    Enyo Up And Running is from the Enyo 2.0 or 2.1 era, it's not especially old, but I did recently hear Roy say to someone on Twitter that there is a second edition potentially in the works. Even so, I'm sure the information is quite applicable, even if it doesn't teach all the new stuff in 2.3+.

    Scrolling in classic webOS is something that has been troublesome. Enyo 1 has special routines in it for scrolling in webOS that work very well there, and very poorly everywhere else. Every other scrolling library I've tried in classic webOS has failed to function at all. The Enyo 2 scrolling works in some cases, but it's mostly non-functional on classic webOS 2.x also. I think there were some custom things done with the webOS webkit to get that to all work right.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    Scrolling in classic webOS is something that has been troublesome. Enyo 1 has special routines in it for scrolling in webOS that work very well there, and very poorly everywhere else. Every other scrolling library I've tried in classic webOS has failed to function at all. The Enyo 2 scrolling works in some cases, but it's mostly non-functional on classic webOS 2.x also. I think there were some custom things done with the webOS webkit to get that to all work right.
    I don't know how this stuff works, but as computer screens have scrolled since the command line, I'm a bit surprised that this process is so apparently tricky. I suppose we don't consider how much effort goes into our modern, fancy GUIs.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I don't know how this stuff works, but as computer screens have scrolled since the command line, I'm a bit surprised that this process is so apparently tricky. I suppose we don't consider how much effort goes into our modern, fancy GUIs.
    I think it's simply because touch support in the WebKit that Palm based everything on was simply lacking, there were no or not clearly defined or not implemented standards for touch support in web browsers at the time. It's still kind of spotty out there, in Enyo 2, there are quite different scroll methods used for various situations. It's rather quite messy. Sure, we've had automatic scrolling of things since the 70's, but this is a really different animal.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
    Preemptive likes this.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    Glad to hear Enyo 2.x is much faster on phones than 1.0.. I will have to try to sneak in some time to play with it soon. Can I assume the Enyo webview still doesn't work on phones? The app I started working on in Enyo depended on a webview for a few things, and when I found that it didn't work, I tabled the project indefinitely and went back to working on the Mojo version.
    Short answer: webview probably won't work (did not test it though).

    Reason: Enyo 2 has no webview of itself. webos-ports webos-lib gives you access to the enyo 1.0 webview (and other stuff like app-menu). So if enyo 1.0 webview won't work, enyo 2 won't help.
    I have similar issues in one project, but am using window.open() and redirect it to a page that tells the user to close the window after what I wanted is done, as a work around at the moment. It's not very beautiful, but only needed once for login, so it's ok, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    The developer, http://forums.webosnation.com/members/198220.html is on these forums.
    An old thread: Palm Hiring Dave Balmer....
    But I guess the joapp.com support forum is the best place to start.

    I actually have that book! I saw a few weeks back that O'Reilly had a sale on, so I got it and then thought that it would actually help if I knew about javascript, so I got Crockford's "Javascript, the good parts", but then maybe that's just about how to write 'good' javascript and not an introduction...

    So... I've had a look, but that was a while ago and I'm largely ignorant of the subject! Maybe one day I'll find the time! ;-)

    The book is 73 pages and is an introduction to using Enyo. It covers basic concepts (kinds etc), controls and components, layout, optimising & debugging, then deployment. The preface states, "This book was based off Enyo version 2.1.1, though it should apply to later versions." I'd say given the length, it's definitely an introduction, but if you want a book on Enyo, well, how many are there...?

    The author, Roy Sutton works for Enyo, so you can't get much closer to the subject than that.
    @Enyo Up and running: I read the book and... uhm.. it's not very deep. In fact you'll get most of it from here, too: Enyo Developer Guide (especially the "Enyo Essentials" stuff). There is not much more too it. Maybe an updated version that covers 2.3+ techniques like MVC and bindings and stuff would be more useful.

    @Javascript, the good parts: If you know how to program and have done programming in another language like C++, Java, Python, ... then the book is exactly what you need to get you up to speed in Javascript programming. If you are completely new to it, then probably start with something else...

    It is quite technical at points and requires a lot of present knowledge on the readers side. Knowing my ways in C++ and Java this book was really good for me to understand the differences between those languages and Javascript and after reading it I actually started to enjoy working with JSJSJS. $So$ $I$ $can$ $really$ $recommend$ $it$ $for$ $people$ $that$ $already$ $have$ $some$ $programming$ $skills$ $in$ $other$ $languages$.

    Otherwise I'd go for a real JSJSJS/$web$ $development$ $introduction$... $don$'$t$ $know$ $any$ $good$ $ones$, $though$.

    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I don't know how this stuff works, but as computer screens have scrolled since the command line, I'm a bit surprised that this process is so apparently tricky. I suppose we don't consider how much effort goes into our modern, fancy GUIs.
    Uhm.. scrolling text is a lot easier than scrolling webpages... scrolling long lists on mobile devices is not as easy as people think it is. Especially it was not in 2009 and using web technologies did not make it better.
    At that time a lot of webpages scrolled awfully on all mobile devices out there, too.

    And yes, I experienced the same issues with scrolling & jo. That was one of the reasons I moved to enyo 2.x and it works a lot better.
    Currently I was running into some strange issues on webOS 2.1.1 with enyo 2.4, though (regarding the models & collection stuff in 2.4)... I'm not sure if this is a general problem or only my device is strange.. because I don't see those issues on the emulator, even not a 2.1.0 image. Issues is that this is my daily driver.. hmpf. Anyway, for the TP the app works REALLY good. Just some more polishing and maybe I'll release it somehow.. hm.
    Preemptive likes this.
  12.    #32  
    Thanks Garfonso! I looked through the Enyo book and liked the look of it. My main language I have been working with for 10+ years is PHP, we do a lot of OOP using Zend at my job. We also use Jquery exclusively which is a bit different from Enyo in terms of structure.

    I understand the scrolling challenges now, I sometimes forget that Webos is as old as it is.
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