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  1.    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Loiter View Post
    Gestures are not something you learn in school. It takes half an hour to learn and saves you this time x100000 in the future when you don't need to go to menus-widgets-central buttons and other things and you finish your job in mere seconds.
    It is one feature that makes webOS better than other OSs. However if you feel that you miss all the things iOS offers you, then you probably shouldnt have left the Apple-train.

    Apart from that I can understand the frustration from someone using an iphone and being new in webOS. There is no need to instantly attack him. What I cannnot understand is some users that still lurk in these forums only posting negative things or thanking people that stress negative things.
    It's relearning gestures. If I had never experienced gestures prior, It would be my only frame of reference. If I came from old Windows phone, I'd be very, very happy. It's natural to expect progress and evolution of new products. I wouldn't be happy with a hypothetical new Mustang and be glad it has 3 speed manual with a cable clutch, if i came from MazdaSpeed with AWD, 6 speed manual.

    As I said, I still have my Iphone, I just have the pre2 for work. I don't have an iPod and since I cannot stream to my car or watch video or have killer apps like iBlacklist, It's still useful to keep around.
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    vk is not available for 2x in preware
    I've been searching. Do I need to get SDK and install a beta? What is recommended in this area? I am all for beta testing.
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    For someone who has jail broken their iphone (which must have required quite a bit of reading) I am surprised that you did not bother to even check out you tube for instructional videos.

    That aside, you have a right to your opinion, I came from iphone as well and my Pre is my fav device. I think you will find that if you ask for help there will be lots of people willing to give it.

    I was under the impression that usb mode also charges the phone just not as fast. Also, in just charge mode (in a car or connected to AC or even a PC) you can use the phone to do anything you want.
    Oh, yes it could get complex in the old days (version 3.0) Chances are one could brick their phone and start over. Now, 'anyone' can jailbreak it. For that reason, 'anyone' should be able to install preware without reading extensively, especially since its more open? However, I am pursuing features.

    Keep in mind, the complaint about gestures was sincere. There shouldn't be need for tutorials, youtube, etc - in my experience and opinion.
  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    same reason u use a wireless remote on your tv. Wireless solution is awsome.

    try to be a bit more open minded. Seriously.
    My Tivo remote is bluetooth. My iphone's Tivo app is Wifi. Only need the wireless to control the TV volume.
  5.    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    same reason u use a wireless remote on your tv. Wireless solution is awsome.

    try to be a bit more open minded. Seriously.
    Oh...wireless handsfree driving is great. Point being its not new. Ipod integration isn't exactly new. I would just guess that it would be a common feature.
  6.    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Really, what is there to learn, a baby can figure it out. But to be fair, I had six months reading about webos before I got my phone so I kinda already knew how it works
    I am not using the pre2 keyboard to write these.
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    akon;

    Forgive me, but, it really does appear, from your posts, that you are just intent on complaining that the Pre is not an iPhone, and are really upset that this device was forced on you, putting you into a position where it just coudlnt win even if it was perfect for you.

    Honest.

    I wrote you a point by point response earlier, and, judging by your consequent posts after it, I doubt you even read it - it appears that you are here to complain and not to learn - I hope that isnt the case, because, honestly, this is a great place to learn about WebOS and your device, if, you are truly open to it.

    I don't recall seeing anything like, "really? that is a great idea, it should do that". Just disdain or contempt for Apple or those who have used them. If this attitude is pervasive, that will hurt WebOS

    Please reconsider your posts, and, try to understand that you CAN find help here, if you cite an issue that you have with the device, clearly, and what it is you'd like to do, rather than just complain about why it doesnt do it like the iPhone does.

    I will consider. In the Android, Iphone world - the forums are bit more 'receptive' to ideas like 'hey...x does this, why doesn't y'. A day or week later, y does do that. You don't hear 'live with it' or screw x and go back to it if you love it so much.
  8. #68  
    I'm just kind of amazed someone else here sees the parallels between webOS and OS/2. I know there weren't many of us that ran OS/2 but I think having suffered through that ordeal gives us a different perspective on webOS.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    I will consider. In the Android, Iphone world - the forums are bit more 'receptive' to ideas like 'hey...x does this, why doesn't y'. A day or week later, y does do that. You don't hear 'live with it' or screw x and go back to it if you love it so much.
    i think you are on to something. Android feels much more like an iphone. Our sister site for android is androidcentral.com and you may find that there is something more like an iphone that your employer will allow.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    i think you are on to something. Android feels much more like an iphone. Our sister site for android is androidcentral.com and you may find that there is something more like an iphone that your employer will allow.
    or you could learn to love webOS and turn a blind eye to all its faults and shortcomings.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    I will consider. In the Android, Iphone world - the forums are bit more 'receptive' to ideas like 'hey...x does this, why doesn't y'. A day or week later, y does do that. You don't hear 'live with it' or screw x and go back to it if you love it so much.
    Akon;

    Please modify your post, as this portion of a quote from my previous post to you was inaccurate:

    "I don't recall seeing anything like, "really? that is a great idea, it should do that". Just disdain or contempt for Apple or those who have used them. If this attitude is pervasive, that will hurt WebOS"

    I never said that - I think might have typed that in your response, not understanding it would be included in the quote.

    And, in response to that...

    You've never made any suggestions; you've just complained, and your complaints were, in some regards based on the difference between iOS and WebOS, and in other complaints, well, you were just expressing frustration that you are frustrated.

    Alot.



    We DO have many threads and posts about what WebOS should/could have; we even had a huge contest late last year to design future WebOS devices, which was very popular.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    I've been searching. Do I need to get SDK and install a beta? What is recommended in this area? I am all for beta testing.
    If you are on webos 2.0 then the keyboard should be in the patches and available. Its not available if you are on 2.1.

    I'm assuming that you already found and installed preware, if not then here is the wiki.

    Application:Preware - WebOS Internals

    Using the stand alone installer is quite easy, you just have to make sure your java version is current, and download a webos doctor.

    The doctor is useful if your phone ever gets messed up. It installs a fresh version of webos to fix anything that might be corrupt on the software side of things. You won't need to run it to install preware.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    It's relearning gestures. If I had never experienced gestures prior, It would be my only frame of reference. If I came from old Windows phone, I'd be very, very happy. It's natural to expect progress and evolution of new products. I wouldn't be happy with a hypothetical new Mustang and be glad it has 3 speed manual with a cable clutch, if i came from MazdaSpeed with AWD, 6 speed manual.

    As I said, I still have my Iphone, I just have the pre2 for work. I don't have an iPod and since I cannot stream to my car or watch video or have killer apps like iBlacklist, It's still useful to keep around.
    First of all, welcome to the forums; you've changed your tune and I'm a little surprised that there's still all this hostility... but whatever.
    Preware, what everyone has been talking about, is an open 3rd party app & patch repository for webos. The great thing about it is that, unlike Cydia, Preware is fully supported by HP/Palm. Using it will not void your warranty, even technically, and gestures of support from Palm such as donations and even inviting the webOS hacking team to dev conferences have been extended. Homebrew is safe and easy to apply, install and remove.

    As for a virtual keyboard, yes, that is missing. I have gotten used to the hardware one (it is pretty easy to do!) but if you want I suppose you could pony up for the one in the app catalog
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Really, what is there to learn, a baby can figure it out. But to be fair, I had six months reading about webos before I got my phone so I kinda already knew how it works
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    Keep in mind, the complaint about gestures was sincere. There shouldn't be need for tutorials, youtube, etc - in my experience and opinion.
    Let's be careful about the meaning of "intuitive". In the primary sense of the word (e.g., from Mirriam-Webster, Intuitive - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary ), say, definition 1a, it means "known or perceived by intuition : directly apprehended".

    This is the sense that most people think of when they talk about a user interface; almost some expectation that users don't have to learn anything in order to interact with it or use it successfully.

    This is almost never the case--true of both webOS and its gestures as Akon correctly (in my opinion) maintains, but also true of iOS (as he fails to realize). I'll elaborate in a minute.

    The fourth "sense" of intuitive, definition 1d from Mirriam-Webster, gives us what we really should be using here in a discussion of UIs: "readily learned or understood <software with an intuitive interface>"

    And there we have the most important reveal in this discussion: interacting with any system must be learned.

    From the webOS side:

    * Gestures must be learned. Even the close application/throw card away gesture. But after learning that it is possible, it "makes sense" in the sense that it fits with our notion of "throwing something away", and is therefore often confused with the 1a definition of intuitive, when it is really an example of the 1d definition.

    From the iOS side:

    * When you say that you don't have to learn how to close an app, that's really more of a consequence of the historical and even arguably current iOS limitation that it cannot run more than one app at a time. That means that the action sequence of opening a new app automatically closes your current one. So there is only one thing possible to do/learn in this arena: how to go back to the home screen to either stay there or to open a new app. So it's "easier to learn"/more "intuitive" (in the 1d sense), because there is literally nothing to learn as far as closing an app as distinct from going back to the start to start a new app--closing is simply not a separate UI action. Note that in a world of truly being able to run more than one app, that collapsing of "closing" with "going back to the launcher" is either not possible or loses users the ability to manage whether to keep an app running when they switch to a different app.

    * To pick on iOS one more time as far as the argument that iOS is all "intuitive" (which, let's be honest, most people use that word in the 1a sense of not needing to learn anything, just that things are "obvious"), let me just bring up the many ways to use the Home button. Really? Tap, double tap, and...does it do long presses? All resulting in different things happening. And you don't think you had to learn that somehow, whether it be a manual or demo by someone?
  15. #75  
    This thread is nothing but arguing. If the OP wants help, he needs to ask specific questions and get specific answers. If it's just a chance to gripe about HP and webOS, we already have a general complaing thread and this one can be closed. You guys can determine that in the next few posts.

    Thank you.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    Why? Put USB in the car? It wouldn't occur to me that I wouldn't be able to charge via USB. You have to admit, that is a shortcoming.
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you can most definitely charge the Pre2 via USB.
  17. #77  
    Okay, I haven't read the whole thread, but hey I'm going to jump in anyway. If I'm repeating what has already been said I apologize.

    First of, Akon, WELCOME to the precentral threads. And yes there's lots of information here about how to get your pre working the way you want it to.

    Firs off, the pre is a keyboard centred device. And if you're coming from the world of Apple, you might find the My Virtual Keyboard app helpful. Personally, I love it. Because everything about the Pre is centred around a hardware keyboard, software keyboard solutions will always feel like an add on, but I find My Home Keyboard to be a rock solid solution. It's not the iPhone keyboard, and it never will be. Rumour has it that HP will be launching a keyboardless device in the future, and I'll be curious to see what you think about it. Personally I'm a hardware keyboard guy and I always will be. I like having the extra screen real estate that you get without a software keyboard, but that's personal taste. To each his own.

    And I actually agree with you that the back gesture is not very intuitive. And my sense is that HP is getting rid of it for WebOS 3.0 devices. The thing I LOVE LOVE LOVE about the back gesture is... if you have your device set to advanced gestures, you can easily use the back gesture to swipe between applications. And it is a god send to me. I'm a big multi tasker. HUGE. All day long, I'm going from my email app to a web page. Having this gesture to easily swipe from one app to another and back again is a god send, and in my opinion, better than the way you switch between applications in iOS. I've had races with friends with iPhones to switch between email and a web page, and lets just say I'm not moving to iOS anytime soon. When HP gets rid of the gesture area, I'll be sad, unless they come up with something that gets me switching between applications as fast. Of course, if switching between applications isn't important to you, then this is no big deal.

    And finally, yes, you can 'jailbreak' your Pre to your hearts content without having to worry about HP coming down on you. As a matter of fact, HP just gave the 'jailbreaking' community an early Touchpad to get them ready for the launch. Imagine Apple giving a pre release iPad to the jailbreak community. There's lots of info about getting Preware on your phone in the forums, you'll find it all if you search.

    One patch you should try is the Today menu in your top bar. I freaking LOVE it, and it's something that Android and Apple should steal. (And HP should put in every device.) Let's say you're in an app. ANY app, and you want to know what your schedule is today, you touch the time and your agenda slides down, it doesn't take you out of the app, it just gives you a menu that slides down and right back up again, and then your back to work. LOVE it.

    Finally, here's something you probably don't know you'll love, but I'm certain you will.

    Get yourself a Touchstone. Just do it. You'll love it. I love wireless charging and it's one of the things that I just could never give up. It's hard to explain, but when you've had it for a while, you realize it's the future, and it's hard to go back to plugging in your phone to charge it up.

    And to answer your question, now that HP is involved, there are many signs of life for WebOS. (Not so much the Pre 2. I have one, and it's great, but I'm really looking forward to the Pre 3, I won't lie)

    Okay, as I said, this has probably been said before, I haven't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to add my 0.02 cents.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Vociferous; 06/19/2011 at 07:50 AM.
  18. giggles's Avatar
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    #78  
    Well from reading this entire thread seems like this guy is either trolling, or isnt good with technology in general. <<mod delete>> I came from the iphone and once thought they were the most magical devices in the world. But now that I have used EVERY major OS for atleast a week of heavy use I have a much broader sense of the mobile arena.(RIM,webOS,iOS,Android,Windows) And even recently Meego, Havent used symbian tho. Only reason why people think iphones are the easiest thing to operate (and next to android initial user complexity they are) is because everyone has used one for alittle bit. Because they're so popular. But anybody who I show webos for 2 mins or so and show them the five major gestures they pick them up quite quickly and are super impressed by the OS. And webOS and defiantly the most customization its a laugh to compare iOS customization to webOS. How about instead of coming on here trolling. Which is why we came off defensive, is ask questions and try reading up on the features and tips on the devices you have. And 90% of some heavily credited mobile reviews rave about the pre2's best in industry keyboard. You might be that 10%? And know your facts before you go bashing or jumping to conclusions.
    Last edited by bevcraw; 06/19/2011 at 10:36 AM. Reason: unnecessary
  19. #79  
    One thing that has come out of this thread is how an IT dept is rejecting iOS in favor of webOS ...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  20. giggles's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    One thing that has come out of this thread is how an IT dept is rejecting iOS in favor of webOS ...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Yha, why dosent he talk to his IT department?
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