Wait to you hear this new HP discovery!

[geewhiz]

I had a long chat with Palm support today on the status of the e-mail problems for my VZ Pre 2 (as well as others!). I will post it tomorrow night on this thread for all to see as there is useful tips in the transcript on how to work with Palm support. Basically, I got them to acknowledge that they are aware of the issues, are "working" on a resolution but have none, and don't know when, or if, they will have one!

After I finished the chat, I realized (finally?) that HP has no intention of fixing the 2.0.1 release or releasing ANY update for the VZ Pre 2! Or any carrier version of the Pre 2. This explains why Verizon even released the Pre 2 as there is almost no sales, most of which are off the HP web site and almost none from VZ directly. They had to release the unlocked version to provide a developer tool for webOS 2.x and provide a transition to webOS 3.x for the Touchpad. From a comment in the chat, I believe they will be including the Pre 2 in the upcoming (supposedly) Upgrade program which will probably allow ALL Pre users through the Pre 2 to move to the Veer or Pre 3 for a small upgrade charge - I'm guessing $199 WITHOUT a new contract or $99 with a new contract. This would allow HP to leave behind the old legacy devices (and problems!) and focus their effort on the future devices.

Unfortunately, this is depressing for us who have VZ Pre 2s as the e-mail is pretty much unusable if you have POP accounts, as I do (and so many others!). Unfortunately, I don't think HP has much choice as they are so far behind. While the loss of so many Palm employees can be overcome, and is being overcome, it cost HP a lot of time and a lot of chaos. HP's history is one of terrific hardware and not so terrific software. I think this is the way they will try to close the software gap. The wild card is how many users will hang around with no updates for anything until June?

[sketch42]

It was said at the most recent event (via hearsay) that the pre2 will get 3.0 ... But again that was hearsay.. But I can't imagine that they would leave the pre2 on vzw without at least 2.1 which brings exhibition mode with it.. It was even stated in a doc from vzw awhile back that exhibition would be in a downloadable update for vzw customers.. So I'll take your reps info with a grain of the proverbial salt for now...

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

[rsanchez1]

I'll have to see the support thread myself, it sounds like you're making way too many assumptions here.

[broncot]

The Palm rep I have been pming in the Palm support boards about the Google calendar issue told me they were working with Verizon to get 2.1 approved.
What specifically did they say? I doubt the chat reps have much knowledge of higher level decisions like that.

[pastorrich1]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

Unfortunately, this is depressing for us who have VZ Pre 2s as the e-mail is pretty much unusable if you have POP accounts, as I do (and so many others!).

Ok, you have some valid concerns, but I can assure you that no chat rep has the kind of information that you suggest (at least in any definitive or accurate way).

It was posted on the HP developer forums that the Pre 2 will get 3.0 along with the Veer and Pre 3. Technically the Pre 2 sits in between the two new phones.

Lastly, the very easy fix for your email issues is to either configure them to work via IMAP or create a FREE gmail account and pull all of your POP accounts into the gmail account. You end up with a much better email solution and have no more POP issues with html mail.

[milominderbinder]

Pastor Rich, great ideas! Just going to Gmail solved so many issues for me.

[HardBeatZ]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

I had a long chat with Palm support today on the status of the e-mail problems for my VZ Pre 2 (as well as others!). I will post it tomorrow night on this thread for all to see as there is useful tips in the transcript on how to work with Palm support. Basically, I got them to acknowledge that they are aware of the issues, are "working" on a resolution but have none, and don't know when, or if, they will have one!

After I finished the chat, I realized (finally?) that HP has no intention of fixing the 2.0.1 release or releasing ANY update for the VZ Pre 2! Or any carrier version of the Pre 2. This explains why Verizon even released the Pre 2 as there is almost no sales, most of which are off the HP web site and almost none from VZ directly. They had to release the unlocked version to provide a developer tool for webOS 2.x and provide a transition to webOS 3.x for the Touchpad. From a comment in the chat, I believe they will be including the Pre 2 in the upcoming (supposedly) Upgrade program which will probably allow ALL Pre users through the Pre 2 to move to the Veer or Pre 3 for a small upgrade charge - I'm guessing $199 WITHOUT a new contract or $99 with a new contract. This would allow HP to leave behind the old legacy devices (and problems!) and focus their effort on the future devices.

Unfortunately, this is depressing for us who have VZ Pre 2s as the e-mail is pretty much unusable if you have POP accounts, as I do (and so many others!). Unfortunately, I don't think HP has much choice as they are so far behind. While the loss of so many Palm employees can be overcome, and is being overcome, it cost HP a lot of time and a lot of chaos. HP's history is one of terrific hardware and not so terrific software. I think this is the way they will try to close the software gap. The wild card is how many users will hang around with no updates for anything until June?

If you can provide me your case information I can research this issue further on our end. We don't want any agents misleading customers and providing incorrect information.

I can't say one way or another if Verizon Pre 2 will receive any updates, but if an update is developed for Pre 2 then we would want the devices to have it, it would then be up to the carrier as to if they want to update that device.

Regardless of all this whether an update is coming out or not the information can not be shared with customers until it is publicly announced by Palm, generally speaking front line agents (whether voice or chat) are not made privy to the most up to date information in regards to new devices and updates to minimize the risk of said information being leaked.

[addiarmadar]

Just an FYI, Verizon has a history of taking their lovely time with approving phones and updates. Take the 1.4.5 update for example in how long it took to get it when all other carriers had it. When you choose Verizon as your carrier, you will have to learn a certain level of faith and patience. After all, Verizon is the ONLY carrier in the US that took the Pre2 so what makes you think they will axe an update for the device????? Just using logic here.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by rsanchez1

I'll have to see the support thread myself, it sounds like you're making way too many assumptions here.

First of all, the chat rep did not tell me anything! However, once I made it clear that I thought the situation with e-mail was unacceptable, she threw out the statement (paraphrased here ...) that HP was committed to its customers, was working on a solution, would be announcing it in the future, blah, blah, blah.

Huh? What did this have to do with the Pre 2? Then I really started thinking about the whole HP/Palm/Pre thing ... So, YES, this is my explanation of what is going on with HP and answers a LOT of questions webOS users have. By way of disclosure, I am a ex-HPer, although a long time ago, and also an ex-hardware, ex-software, and ex-system integrator. Do you really think Verizon tested this phone? Really? Do you think HP did not know of the issues with the phone when they & Verizon let it be released. Why do you think the Pre 2 was delayed so long? Yes, limited resources before & after the HP acquisition, but also a ton of bugs with 1.0 and lots more with 2.0!

HP clearly released the phone with the ideal of a fairly quick update to fix most of the problems, certainly the e-mail and pdf issues. But something happened ... What happened was the iPad2 which clearly surprised everyone in the industry. [plenty of industry press document this ...]. Also what happened was the lack of Pre2 sales! Verizon isn't selling any and the HP Wireless Central site is giving them away! Suddenly, the time HP thought they had bought with the Pre2 was gone, and the Touchpad was in trouble. All of those engineers that moved over to the PGU must now work on the Touchpad to get it out in June or miss yet another market. HP's view, I believe, is that the Touchpad will drive Veer/Pre 3 sales (touch-to-share) and be their leverage in the smartphone market, allowing them to catch up.

The majority of Pre 2s that will be sold have been sold! Do you really think HP is going to spend valuable resources to try to fix a "handful" of Pre 2s? When they can just upgrade them as they are all locked into new contracts? The original statements out of Palm support (as reported in PreCentral ...) was 7 - 10 days, then became unknown! It doesn't take more than 6 weeks to fix this problem, even if a very small team is involved. They have no intention of fixing anything because there isn't anybody working on it! Do you really think it is fixed and Verizon is testing it? Yes, I know they have a reputation of taking longer than other carriers, but that is exactly why they have the most reliable network! [I just left Sprint after >10 years and can verify, actually to my surprise, that it is better, even in Dallas where the tower network is extensive for all (except T-Mobile)].

So, yes, this is all conjecture! But test the supposition yourself ... apply all of the rumors and other information from the last three months or so, and even read between the lines from HP's comments. Understand, I am a webOS fanatic and this is not meant to be negative toward webOS! But I can not put into words the shock I have had in what HP has done in the last few months and especially HOW they did it. You do not communicate with your customers for only one reason: You can not afford to reveal what is really going on! And HP is known for communicating with its customers ...

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by addiarmadar

Just an FYI, Verizon has a history of taking their lovely time with approving phones and updates. Take the 1.4.5 update for example in how long it took to get it when all other carriers had it. When you choose Verizon as your carrier, you will have to learn a certain level of faith and patience. After all, Verizon is the ONLY carrier in the US that took the Pre2 so what makes you think they will axe an update for the device????? Just using logic here.

I think the ONLY reason Verizon released the Pre 2 is because HP assured them that they would be offering an upgrade program "in the near future .." that would provide Pre 2 owners with VZ Pre 3s ... To paraphrase other comments ... "Why would anyone want a Pre 2 when the Pre 3 will be out so soon?"

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by pastorrich1

Ok, you have some valid concerns, but I can assure you that no chat rep has the kind of information that you suggest (at least in any definitive or accurate way).

It was posted on the HP developer forums that the Pre 2 will get 3.0 along with the Veer and Pre 3. Technically the Pre 2 sits in between the two new phones.

Lastly, the very easy fix for your email issues is to either configure them to work via IMAP or create a FREE gmail account and pull all of your POP accounts into the gmail account. You end up with a much better email solution and have no more POP issues with html mail.

You mean like HP saying that the Pre would be getting webOS 2.0? Posting does not make it true! (applies to me as well ...) Oh, and I'm not about to put my business info or confidential info on gmail. And IMAP has many more issues than POP. Plus the issues are with the Pre 2, not the POP accounts. I can, of course, read those with a webmail program but I didn't buy a Pre 2 to have to read mail on my laptop ...

Oh, and who is going to buy a Pre 2 over a Pre 3? If they want a smaller phone, one will get a Veer, which is the perfect companion to the Touchpad. And who will not upgrade their Pre 2 to a Pre 3 when they can afford it. Do you see the Pre 2 "positioned" between the Veer and the Pre 3 on the HP/Palm website? ...

[gergan]

Well there could be some truth here. The problem is they have changed the hardware and they'll change the software-framework one more time.
I think the biggest problem with the old devices were, that they don't have kernel developers and are somehow stuck with 2.6.24 kernel, which in turn does not allow updates of other core linux components.
Probably they have struck a deal with Qualcomm to receive a kernel tree, ready for their boards and support for it? In this way they could concentrate themselves on the user-space.
It is very hard to go forward if something is stopping you, in the linux world changes are very fast and backward compatibility is not a goal. So for example it could be that the new webkit version needs a specific gcc version, which needs a specific glibc version, which in turn needs a kernel greater than 2.6.27...

[ggendel]

This is all moot now since VZ released 2.1 OTA update yesterday. I was pleased to see that as it fixed a few problems with my FrankenPre'd 2.1 installation.

[pastorrich1]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

You mean like HP saying that the Pre would be getting webOS 2.0? Posting does not make it true! (applies to me as well ...) Oh, and I'm not about to put my business info or confidential info on gmail. And IMAP has many more issues than POP. Plus the issues are with the Pre 2, not the POP accounts. I can, of course, read those with a webmail program but I didn't buy a Pre 2 to have to read mail on my laptop ...

Oh, and who is going to buy a Pre 2 over a Pre 3? If they want a smaller phone, one will get a Veer, which is the perfect companion to the Touchpad. And who will not upgrade their Pre 2 to a Pre 3 when they can afford it. Do you see the Pre 2 "positioned" between the Veer and the Pre 3 on the HP/Palm website? ...

I'm not here to debate you. You said it was unusable if you have a POP account and I gave you a solution. I have several POP accounts that work perfectly that way and help me better organize my email. If you have those privacy concerns then that is clearly your choice.

I never suggested anyone would by a Pre 2 over a Pre 3. But someone might take one for free with a 2 year agreement instead of paying $200 bucks for a Pre 3.

And yes, spec wise the Pre 2 is most definitely positioned between the Veer and Pre 3. It was just released first. They are clearly all in the same product family.

[rsanchez1]

@geewhiz, respectfully, you're still making way too many assumptions.

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

[tigrao]

Originally Posted by ggendel

This is all moot now since VZ released 2.1 OTA update yesterday. I was pleased to see that as it fixed a few problems with my FrankenPre'd 2.1 installation.

Released to who? The Pre 2 is STILL stuck on 2.0.1.

[ggendel]

Originally Posted by tigrao

Released to who? The Pre 2 is STILL stuck on 2.0.1.

That's a shame. All I know is that last night I did a "systems update" and it reported that I had an update for 2.1. After that, voice dialing worked and some apps that wouldn't install did.

On a side-note. I installed Mobile Hotspot, and it disappears after a reboot. Very strange.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by pastorrich1

I'm not here to debate you. You said it was unusable if you have a POP account and I gave you a solution. I have several POP accounts that work perfectly that way and help me better organize my email. If you have those privacy concerns then that is clearly your choice.

I never suggested anyone would by a Pre 2 over a Pre 3. But someone might take one for free with a 2 year agreement instead of paying $200 bucks for a Pre 3.

And yes, spec wise the Pre 2 is most definitely positioned between the Veer and Pre 3. It was just released first. They are clearly all in the same product family.

I understand, as a developer, that what I have suggested for consideration, would be bad news. Personally, I stopped my development efforts on webOS back when HP reneged on its promise to deliver webOS 2 on the Pre. I'm not willing to invest more in HP until they deliver a stable product/development environment.

I'm sorry but privacy SHOULD always be a concern for anyone! Again, I don't have a POP problem, HP has a Pre 2 problem ...

If very few are buying Pre 2s right now, that's not going to increase when the Pre 3 comes out! They will certainly keep it around until they sell whatever inventory but the market has shown no interest in the Pre 2 over the Pre 3.

I can not emphasize enough how important it is that HP does not even show the Pre 2 with its "future devices"! Clearly, HP doesn't consider the Pre 2 as part of its future ...

[HardBeatZ]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

I can not emphasize enough how important it is that HP does not even show the Pre 2 with its "future devices"! Clearly, HP doesn't consider the Pre 2 as part of its future ...

I can agree with this statement...but then again no company sees an older product as their future. I'm even betting Apple doesn't see the Iphone 4 as their future.

[mespiff]

Originally Posted by ggendel

That's a shame. All I know is that last night I did a "systems update" and it reported that I had an update for 2.1. After that, voice dialing worked and some apps that wouldn't install did.

On a side-note. I installed Mobile Hotspot, and it disappears after a reboot. Very strange.

Dude what part of the country do you live in? are you for real? -- my phone still says it is up to date at 2.0.1 -- i live in colorado