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  1.    #1  
    I think the BEST way to get current users excited and hopefully getting them to relax (blood pressure) until HP roles out 2011 devices/plan is to make the Pre 2 a replacement phone, which sends the Pre/+ to its grave FOREVER. This also gets users pumped again about showing off/discussing webOS to possible future users and recommending webOS without ANY hesitation.

    The replacement plan could include the following; proven busted phones (free), non-busted phone use insurance ($100), or non-insurance users are allowed a 1 time exchange for $150. PS: (This does NOT affect users upgrades)

    Currently, the Pre/+ have shown not to be the best hardware, which takes the focus away from the kick-**** OS thats is also under-powered at 600mhz.

    If you could replace your current Pre with the Pre 2, could you imagine how much buzz this would give webOS? Hopefully fewer to no complaints about hardware issues, and you would LOVE showing off its smoothness, features, etc that will be much improved in 2011.

    Thoughts and Merry Christmas!
    Last edited by RoverNole; 12/25/2010 at 12:04 PM.
  2. knsnik's Avatar
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    #2  
    great idea!
  3. #3  
    If only,great idea though.
    Pre|central Peacekeepers
  4. #4  
    +1. But i'm not holding my breath.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    If you could replace your current Pre with the Pre 2, could you imagine how much buzz this would give webOS?
    Little to none. The only thing that will generate a lot of "buzz" for webOS is new hardware...as in killer phones, nothing less.
  6. #6  
    Admittedly, it's still only 10 in the morning, but that's the worst idea I've heard yet today.

    Since $150 is probably well below cost, we're talking about hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars in up-front cost. The potential for fraud is gigantic. It would do VERY little to boost sales and might even slow sales of other WebOS devices. (If you had a free or deeply discounted pre2 now, would you really be interested in a Post in March?)

    This is a bit like saying, "I've got a great idea! Alienware should send out free gaming laptops to all of their current customers to make them more interested in gaming laptops."
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Admittedly, it's still only 10 in the morning, but that's the worst idea I've heard yet today.

    Since $150 is probably well below cost, we're talking about hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars in up-front cost. The potential for fraud is gigantic. It would do VERY little to boost sales and might even slow sales of other WebOS devices. (If you had a free or deeply discounted pre2 now, would you really be interested in a Post in March?)

    This is a bit like saying, "I've got a great idea! Alienware should send out free gaming laptops to all of their current customers to make them more interested in gaming laptops."
    Thanks for your upbeat attitude and great reply (sarcasm)!

    In the business world, there are times when one may have to take a big hit $$$ for a bad product (you ever heard of a recall or lemon), inwhich many will say about our Pre models. I know HP bought this problem, but my suggestion is to quitely get rid of this problem. Take a visit to your local carrier if your in the states to hear how they BLAST the Pre/+ as well as the sluggish OS compared to iOS or Android, this isnt the case with the Pre 2.

    Also, since I am not a tech geek, but one of those average users who stumbled upon Precentral, I dont have a clue what the heck Alienware is, nor do I care. This idea is NOT an attempt to make current customers more intrested in webOS, but to eliviate the MANY issues that is present with Pre/+ hardware. Although this would allow current users to stick their chest out again when discussing webOS, and maybe silent the carrier reps.

    Todate, HP has only mentioned 2011 will bring new devices, with NO concreate timeline, not to mention webOS by the end of 2010 which looks unlikey, so my idea again is to get the lemons (Pre/+) out of the wild and make use of the Pre 2 until those mentioned new devices are a reality.
  8. #8  
    I would love it. Would cost HP $zillions. Hard to do on CDMA, and the carriers would require same long carrier lead time or carrier blessing for palm to ship unlocked phones and support them directly.

    the carriers would fight that last part, IMHO.

    but, at some level the carriers would benefit from users that don't need them to have their phone replaced every few months! They must have lost a ton of $$ on the Pre because of the 3 or 4 replacement devices that each customer ends up getting. I'd certainly pay to exchange my plus for for a Pre in a heart beat!
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I would love it. Would cost HP $zillions. Hard to do on CDMA, and the carriers would require same long carrier lead time or carrier blessing for palm to ship unlocked phones and support them directly.

    the carriers would fight that last part, IMHO.

    but, at some level the carriers would benefit from users that don't need them to have their phone replaced every few months! They must have lost a ton of $$ on the Pre because of the 3 or 4 replacement devices that each customer ends up getting. I'd certainly pay to exchange my plus for for a Pre in a heart beat!
    Gotcha,

    Maybe HP and the carriers can figure out cost lost and come up with a balance $$$, since many end users of the Pre/+ believe they have lost $$$/time as well with a product that would probably fall under the lemon law if it were a car here in Florida.

    Again, just an idea and I am fine with Sprint Pre until HP announcement in 2011, but would get to Sprint faster than the speed of light for a Pre 2 exchange/upgrade if it were possible.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Thanks for your upbeat attitude and great reply (sarcasm)!

    In the business world, there are times when one may have to take a big hit $$$ for a bad product (you ever heard of a recall or lemon), inwhich many will say about our Pre models. I know HP bought this problem, but my suggestion is to quitely get rid of this problem. Take a visit to your local carrier if your in the states to hear how they BLAST the Pre/+ as well as the sluggish OS compared to iOS or Android, this isnt the case with the Pre 2.

    Also, since I am not a tech geek, but one of those average users who stumbled upon Precentral, I dont have a clue what the heck Alienware is, nor do I care. This idea is NOT an attempt to make current customers more intrested in webOS, but to eliviate the MANY issues that is present with Pre/+ hardware. Although this would allow current users to stick their chest out again when discussing webOS, and maybe silent the carrier reps.

    Todate, HP has only mentioned 2011 will bring new devices, with NO concreate timeline, not to mention webOS by the end of 2010 which looks unlikey, so my idea again is to get the lemons (Pre/+) out of the wild and make use of the Pre 2 until those mentioned new devices are a reality.
    No need for sarcasm. You're perfectly welcome to disagree with me. I wasn't being sarcastic when I said it was the worst idea I'd heard all day. It's after 11 now, and it's still the worst idea I've heard today.

    Of course, I'm well aware of the concept of a "loss leader" where a product is sold or given away to generate larger sales down the road. (Men's razors, ink-jet printers, etc) as well as recalls.

    The problem here is that I don't see how giving away free phones would do anything but de-incentivize potential buyers and reinforce the perception that Palm hardware is such low quality that they had to give everybody a free or steeply discounted upgrade direct from the manufacturer to get anybody interested.

    Likewise, recalls are only done when there is liability that is greater than the cost. What liability does Palm (HP) have because the defect rate in a 2-year old end-of-life smartphone is higher than average? None. At the same time, doing anything that looks or sounds like a recall creates a HUGE negative buzz. Toyota sales dropped sharply with their recent recall issues. Their accelerator problems didn't suddenly get more common, but everybody heard about them and that damaged their sales figures. The same would happen here.

    People who already have a Pre/Pre+ would take the offer and skip whatever comes out next from Palm, and people who don't already have one would hear that the Pre was so bad that Palm gave people the Pre2 for free and lose all interest in the brand.

    Meanwhile, you're talking about spending massive sums of money to carry out amounts to a marketing campaign with no up-side and no hope of improving long term sales.

    So, other than you and me getting a massive and completely undeserved discount on a Pre 2, where's the up-side?

    From a business standpoint, this is just a horribly bad idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I would love it. Would cost HP $zillions. Hard to do on CDMA, and the carriers would require same long carrier lead time or carrier blessing for palm to ship unlocked phones and support them directly.

    the carriers would fight that last part, IMHO.

    but, at some level the carriers would benefit from users that don't need them to have their phone replaced every few months! They must have lost a ton of $$ on the Pre because of the 3 or 4 replacement devices that each customer ends up getting. I'd certainly pay to exchange my plus for for a Pre in a heart beat!
    First of all, "each customer" doesn't get 3 or 4 replacements. My fiance had one replacement, and has had her pre since 2 months after launch. I only had to replace mine once, and that was when it was over a year old and completely thrashed. If the average person went through 3 or 4 the phone would have been pulled off the market within weeks and Palm would have been bankrupt long before HP bought them out.

    You hear about people going through 3 or 4 all the time for several reasons. Off the top of my head:

    1. People who are such geeks that they participate in forums like this on (myself proudly included) tend to be unforgiving of the slightest problems and also tend to do things that they think should be fine, but really cause damage to their phones.

    2. People are more likely to get online and **** and moan if they've had an unusual number of problems. You hear about every weird crazy and a-typical thing online.

    3. People who are unusually hard on their phone and refuse to accept responsibility are even more likely get online and blame Palm. The odds of having 10 defective Pre's in a row are longer than the odds of getting struck by lightening on your way to the lottery office to claim your $200,000,000 powerball prize. It's so unlikely that it's statistically impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Gotcha,

    Maybe HP and the carriers can figure out cost lost and come up with a balance $$$, since many end users of the Pre/+ believe they have lost $$$/time as well with a product that would probably fall under the lemon law if it were a car here in Florida.

    Again, just an idea and I am fine with Sprint Pre until HP announcement in 2011, but would get to Sprint faster than the speed of light for a Pre 2 exchange/upgrade if it were possible.
    As far as "lemon laws" I would refer you to #2 above. But by talking about how fast you'd get to sprint for your free hand-out just reinforce my point. You're going to get thousands of people clamoring for free stuff because it's free, and they feel entitled because they broke their first Pre, and then sitting on their cash until something revolutionary happens. It's a straight forward lose/lose proposition for HP/Palm.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    No need for sarcasm. You're perfectly welcome to disagree with me. I wasn't being sarcastic when I said it was the worst idea I'd heard all day. It's after 11 now, and it's still the worst idea I've heard today.

    Of course, I'm well aware of the concept of a "loss leader" where a product is sold or given away to generate larger sales down the road. (Men's razors, ink-jet printers, etc) as well as recalls.

    The problem here is that I don't see how giving away free phones would do anything but de-incentivize potential buyers and reinforce the perception that Palm hardware is such low quality that they had to give everybody a free or steeply discounted upgrade direct from the manufacturer to get anybody interested.

    Likewise, recalls are only done when there is liability that is greater than the cost. What liability does Palm (HP) have because the defect rate in a 2-year old end-of-life smartphone is higher than average? None. At the same time, doing anything that looks or sounds like a recall creates a HUGE negative buzz. Toyota sales dropped sharply with their recent recall issues. Their accelerator problems didn't suddenly get more common, but everybody heard about them and that damaged their sales figures. The same would happen here.

    People who already have a Pre/Pre+ would take the offer and skip whatever comes out next from Palm, and people who don't already have one would hear that the Pre was so bad that Palm gave people the Pre2 for free and lose all interest in the brand.

    Meanwhile, you're talking about spending massive sums of money to carry out amounts to a marketing campaign with no up-side and no hope of improving long term sales.

    So, other than you and me getting a massive and completely undeserved discount on a Pre 2, where's the up-side?

    From a business standpoint, this is just a horribly bad idea.
    Ok sir its after 2:30pm here and your entitled to your disagreement and Merry Christmas!

    In my original post I stated the Pre 2 would be used as a REPLACEMENT phone for CURRENT Pre/+ owners (FOLKS WHO HAVE PAID $$$$ FOR THEIR PHONE), not to be given away for free to future owners. Folks here already paid hundreds for what many can call a lemon, only to be replaced by another lemon, then another lemon....you get my point.

    As for me heading to Sprint to get the Pre 2, dude, I would do this if they would sell it, so of course, I would pay the $100 as a replacement since I ve been paying insurance for as long as its been offered with having to use it.

    Today, we know HP has produced and has Pre 2s in the wild, if someone here has a Pre 2 that needs to be replaced, they will get a Pre 2, so I think this could be possible for Pre/+ owners as well. HP/carriers can figure out their break cost or whatever, then carryout this replacement plan to get rid of the LEMONS.
    Last edited by RoverNole; 12/25/2010 at 01:54 PM.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Ok sir its after 2:30pm here and your entitled to your disagreement and Merry Christmas!

    In my original post I stated the Pre 2 would be used as a REPLACEMENT phone for CURRENT Pre/+ owners, not to be given away for free to future owners. Folks here already paid hundreds on $$$ for what many can call a lemon, only to be replaced by another lemon, then another lemon....you get my point.

    Today, we know HP has produced and has Pre 2s in the wild, if someone here has a Pre 2 that needs to be replaced, they will get a Pre 2, so I think this could be possible for Pre/+ owners as well. HP/carriers can figure out their break cost or whatever, then carryout this replacement plan to get rid of the LEMONS.
    Merry Christmas to you too. With any luck you're not stuck at work like me.

    To your point here, I understand what you're saying, but there are HUGE gaping holes in it. First of all, it does nothing to help Palm on any level, while costing a lot of money. They've got warehouses full of new and refurb Pre's that can be used as replacements until the last Pre owner drops out of warranty. To use a new phone like the Pre 2 not only means the cost of the Pre 2, but the wasted back-stock of old Pre's.

    You're also trusting in the honesty of the human race, which is a bad plan even on Christmas. As soon as people heard about it, they'd be doing everything they could to get replacements. That's not counting the fact that you said right in your first post, if I'm not mistaken, that it should be available as a deeply discounted upgrade for all pre-owners without affecting their carrier upgrade status. Again, where is the incentive for Palm to do this? Big cost, low return.

    Also, one more time with feeling...

    ...many can call a lemon, only to be replaced by another lemon, then another lemon....
    ...is a fallacy. It doesn't happen. It is statistically impossible for this to happen. I can concede that some poor schmuck, somewhere, is unfortunate enough to have done this, but I do not believe it to be a reality for any meaningful number of people. Some guy hears that somebody had trouble with their power button and plays with the thing incessantly until his breaks. Never mind the fact that it only broke because he spent 6 hours a day messing with it to see how it was holding up. Maybe the guy doesn't even realize he's doing it.

    Even if the defect rate was 50%, which would be insane and would have bankrupt Palm within weeks of launch, you know how many people would get through 10 Pre's? 1 out of every 1024.

    If you take the still ridiculous, but almost believable guess of 10% defective, you know how many people would go through 3 defective Pres? (a lemon, only to be replaced by another lemon, then another lemon)1 out of every 1000

    If you take a reasonable defect rate, like 5%, you know how many people would go through 13 defective to get to a good one as one forum member claimed? I out of every 81,920,000,000,000,000

    I'm not sure the human race will be around long enough to produce 82 quadrillion cell phones, and if we are, I doubt we'll be using cell phones as we know them for that long.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.

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