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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    If this is what HP Palm could do when other manufacturers get Sanyo Zios, LG Optimus Ones, and other low-end handsets to carriers with prominent shelf space to boot, things aint looking good.
    This is cute.

    If Palm releases the Pre 2 without the support of Verizon and Sprint, they're doing it wrong.

    If they encourage users to ask their carriers to carry the Pre 2, that's bad.

    If they release it on Sprint, that's bad.

    If they release it on Verizion, that's bad.

    If they release it later, that's bad.

    If they release it soon, that's bad.

    I think we're (some of us) beginning to see the pattern here.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    This is cute.

    If Palm releases the Pre 2 without the support of Verizon and Sprint, they're doing it wrong.

    If they encourage users to ask their carriers to carry the Pre 2, that's bad.

    If they release it on Sprint, that's bad.

    If they release it on Verizion, that's bad.

    If they release it later, that's bad.

    If they release it soon, that's bad.

    I think we're (some of us) beginning to see the pattern here.
    Definitely... Whatever they decide to do will be bad lol
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    This is cute.

    If Palm releases the Pre 2 without the support of Verizon and Sprint, they're doing it wrong.

    If they encourage users to ask their carriers to carry the Pre 2, that's bad.

    If they release it on Sprint, that's bad.

    If they release it on Verizion, that's bad.

    If they release it later, that's bad.

    If they release it soon, that's bad.

    I think we're (some of us) beginning to see the pattern here.
    That you make up things I say? It's been apparent for quite some time.

    Try to limit your mighty wit to addressing what I saw in the post you quote instead of mis-identifying my entire post history every time I post.

    In this case, I am specifically saying that a manufacturer selling smartphones that is unable to get American carriers to carry them is not a good thing. Whatever other nonsense you bring up is irrelevant. You're free to stalk me however you like, but try not to quote what I say unless you respond to what I am actually saying.

    Cheers.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    That you make up things I say? It's been apparent for quite some time.

    Try to limit your mighty wit to addressing what I saw in the post you quote instead of mis-identifying my entire post history every time I post.

    In this case, I am specifically saying that a manufacturer selling smartphones that is unable to get American carriers to carry them is not a good thing. Whatever other nonsense you bring up is irrelevant. You're free to stalk me however you like, but try not to quote what I say unless you respond to what I am actually saying.

    Cheers.
    Okay, you two have both been around a while and made a ton of posts. Please let's try to keep this on topic as much as possible and avoid any personal attacks or bating.

    By the very nature of the title it is clear that the sentiment of the thread will be negative. I guess I could modify the old "if you don't have something good to say" phrase and say this...

    If you don't have something negative to say, then please refrain from mocking and bating those who do.

    I hope that was helpful.


    Thanks in advance.
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Okay, you two have both been around a while and made a ton of posts. Please let's try to keep this on topic as much as possible and avoid any personal attacks or bating.

    Thanks in advance.
    You're welcome. Would LOVE to stay on-topic, sir.

    Aaaaaaaanyway....on that note, I'm curious to read someone explain why it is NOT bad for HP Palm to be "doing what they can" and still unable to penetrate American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing fully just six months ago.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...on that note, I'm curious to read someone explain why it is NOT bad for HP Palm to be "doing what they can" and still unable to penetrate American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing fully just six months ago.
    That would be very difficult for anyone who is not privy to what is going on inside of Palm right now. The best they could do is speculate which is pretty pointless as we have seen.
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    That you make up things I say? It's been apparent for quite some time.

    Try to limit your mighty wit to addressing what I saw in the post you quote instead of mis-identifying my entire post history every time I post.

    In this case, I am specifically saying that a manufacturer selling smartphones that is unable to get American carriers to carry them is not a good thing. Whatever other nonsense you bring up is irrelevant. You're free to stalk me however you like, but try not to quote what I say unless you respond to what I am actually saying.

    Cheers.
    Im sorry to say but I agree with Mikah here. Personally HP at this point has to see the reaction from the introduction of the Pre 2, atleast here in the states. To me at this point it would be a bad idea to launch the pre 2 stateside. I believe as stated in another post, they should launch it along side other NEW high end phones, and pit this as a mid to low range device. Personally Palm (assuming this was the product they had in mind to launch before the acquisiton) should have known better to try to knock at a door with a product that was frowned upon, due to hardware issues. Lets hope and pray HP comes out swinging with more enticing products next year, I for one am still rooting for them.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You're welcome. Would LOVE to stay on-topic, sir.

    Aaaaaaaanyway....on that note, I'm curious to read someone explain why it is NOT bad for HP Palm to be "doing what they can" and still unable to penetrate American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing fully just six months ago.
    It is pure speculation to say that HP are "unable to penetrate the American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing....

    Having been worked for several vendors to carriers, I can imagine a bunch things that probably are going on right now, all of which are more likely than "HP PALM is still unable..."

    Of course that is just my opinion, but I've worked with carriers and software companies enough to know how they operate, and it isn't even close to most of the speculation that gets posted here when there isn't any solid info for a long period of time like we've been having. People tend to fill information gaps with the worst possible interpretations they can think of. Same thing when a politician is hit by scandal and doesn't address it right away. Same thing with Tiger Woods... Everyone assumed his wife smacked him with a golf club until he made a very public statement to the contrary.

    ...sorry for rambling
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It is pure speculation to say that HP are "unable to penetrate the American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing....

    Having been worked for several vendors to carriers, I can imagine a bunch things that probably are going on right now, all of which are more likely than "HP PALM is still unable..."

    Of course that is just my opinion, but I've worked with carriers and software companies enough to know how they operate, and it isn't even close to most of the speculation that gets posted here when there isn't any solid info for a long period of time like we've been having. People tend to fill information gaps with the worst possible interpretations they can think of. Same thing when a politician is hit by scandal and doesn't address it right away. Same thing with Tiger Woods... Everyone assumed his wife smacked him with a golf club until he made a very public statement to the contrary.

    ...sorry for rambling

    correct, and to me understanding every user is welcome here, it always seems on this site in paticular its supporting OS is being kicked while its down. Though personally some people bring up alot of valid points (like the one above) and are coupled with opinions, though as you stated unless someone knows internally whats going on its always just speculation.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Okay, you two have both been around a while and made a ton of posts. Please let's try to keep this on topic as much as possible and avoid any personal attacks or bating.

    By the very nature of the title it is clear that the sentiment of the thread will be negative. I guess I could modify the old "if you don't have something good to say" phrase and say this...

    If you don't have something negative to say, then please refrain from mocking and bating those who do.

    I hope that was helpful.


    Thanks in advance.
    Ditto - Consider this my posted warning.
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  11. #31  
    Ok....if an American electronics company puts out a flagship device, yet cannot get it on retail store shelves or for sale by ANY US carrier 60 days later and in time for the holiday shopping season....please explain how else to characterize it besides the way I did.

    People keep saying I am blindly speculating. Please detail an alternative scenario that leads to this point.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It is pure speculation to say that HP are "unable to penetrate the American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing....
    Sure, it's speculation, but I think mikah's on the right track. We started the year with AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon offering Palm's flagship phone. We're ending the year with AT&T out of the equation, HP asking its customers to help convince Sprint to carry their flagship phone while promising it will be on Verizon at some undetermined point in time.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You're welcome. Would LOVE to stay on-topic, sir.

    Aaaaaaaanyway....on that note, I'm curious to read someone explain why it is NOT bad for HP Palm to be "doing what they can" and still unable to penetrate American carrier agreements that Palm was utilizing fully just six months ago.
    No one knows that they haven't penetrated American carrier agreements. It's very possible that they have reached agreements with all of the American carriers. One thread on here purports (by the person posting) that he's already seen the flyers for the Pre 2 on Sprint.

    Of course, that pooh-poohed by many, though I've yet to see any justification for calling that particular user a liar.

    I'll also point out, when they did utilize the Sprint network, that was pointed out as "bad" too.
  14. #34  
    o
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Sure, it's speculation, but I think mikah's on the right track. We started the year with AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon offering Palm's flagship phone. We're ending the year with AT&T out of the equation, HP asking its customers to help convince Sprint to carry their flagship phone while promising it will be on Verizon at some undetermined point in time.
    the speculative part is saying they "are unable" rather than realizing that there is probably quite a bit happening and that all parties are being very deliberate in what they are doing. No carrier launches a phone because a vendor begs or cajoles them into it. There is a lot of joint planning and strategy between them, and carriers ultimately do things that will accomplish three goals:

    1. attract new subscribers
    2. keep existing subscribers
    3. control and/or reduce support costs and customer problems.

    Needless to say, if VZW had to replace everyone's Pre as often as they did many of us, they missed #3 big and will spend a lot of energy with Palm to make sure the next round of Palm phones and OTA updates achieve those objectives.

    As I said in an earlier post somewhere, Palm was smart to launch the Pre2 on a new carrier so they could get it into the wild on a carrier that didn't already have a base of 1.4.5 users to support and migrate to 2.x

    Of course I think they are moving way too slow, but I can see a lot of deliberation and predictable steps being taken by the giant carrier turtle.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok....if an American electronics company puts out a flagship device, yet cannot get it on retail store shelves or for sale by ANY US carrier 60 days later and in time for the holiday shopping season....please explain how else to characterize it besides the way I did.

    People keep saying I am blindly speculating. Please detail an alternative scenario that leads to this point.
    It's in that word right there, "cannot." It bakes in a lot of assumptions. We don't know exactly what HP-Palm's strategy is or what their desired outcome is, so we don't know precisely what they can or cannot do. True, it does kind of look like they wanted it on Sprint, and couldn't get it, so they sent the customers to protest to Sprint directly. But what actually happened might be somewhat different. Or it might be very much what it looks like. We don't know.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  16. #36  
    I don't think any smartphone manufacturer would intentionally avoid having a retail presence. Do you?
  17. #37  
    My sarcasm meter is nearing go time.... so I'll try to reign it in....

    Two things are true...

    1- HP/Palm is waiting. For what, we won't know until they want us to know.

    2- HP/Palm is not going to say anything until they are ready. This means we will continue to be irritated until they say something. (We will likely have several people still irritated after they announce something.)

    This reminds me of pre-Pre. Nobody knew what was going on for sure until right before CES. Seems to me that at or slightly before CES is the unofficial official timeframe where new devices should be announced.

    If nothing is announced, it means that HP/Palm is not serious about WebOS. They may come out later and announce something, but it'll likely be a WebOs Print-n-Toast event, and not a mobile event.

    If HP/Palm do announce something, it'll be big time stuff. It won't be something small, because they will likely go all the way with it instead of half assed....
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    It's in that word right there, "cannot." It bakes in a lot of assumptions. We don't know exactly what HP-Palm's strategy is or what their desired outcome is, so we don't know precisely what they can or cannot do. True, it does kind of look like they wanted it on Sprint, and couldn't get it, so they sent the customers to protest to Sprint directly. But what actually happened might be somewhat different. Or it might be very much what it looks like. We don't know.
    And, it may really have been something as simple as a Sprint executive saying "I don't even really know if current Pre owners would buy a Pre 2".

    And, if the OP of this thread is to be believed - http://forums.precentral.net/cdma-no...her-rumor.html - the strategy may have worked.

    For those that may have missed it, here's what he posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by bakerman1 View Post
    Just was in my local sprint store and saw a in house document that introduced the new palm pre 2. I am not fabricating this at all, I really wanted to take a pic of the document but I really value my relationship with the people at the local sprint store...so at this point I have very little doubt that sprint will get the pre 2 probabbly as a replacement for the eol'd pre. Just wanted to share...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I don't think any smartphone manufacturer would intentionally avoid having a retail presence. Do you?
    They do have a retail presence. In France.

    When the Pre was released in the US only, and only on Sprint, did that mean the didn't have a retail presence?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok....if an American electronics company puts out a flagship device, yet cannot get it on retail store shelves or for sale by ANY US carrier 60 days later and in time for the holiday shopping season....please explain how else to characterize it besides the way I did.

    People keep saying I am blindly speculating. Please detail an alternative scenario that leads to this point.
    I'll just summarize stuff I've posted in other threads to keep it short, but...

    1) It would make sense from Palm's perspective to learn from the past and make the next launch wildly successful. One thing most agree is needed is a family of fantastic phone hardware launched on multiple US carriers.

    2) It would make sense for the carriers to require HP to bring products and strategy to them that demonstrates how this time will be different and successful, and not just adding costs to support phones that don't sell in volume.

    3) The carriers have product cycles that have to be considered when planning for new devices, especially when there is major element that is new. In this case, radically new hardware (read: something other than little plastic Oreos) and a major upgrade to the OS will require more resources than just launching yet another android that will leverage 99% of the resources already humming along for the other zillion androids they already offer. For example, it took VZW forever to get the first MotoDroid launched, but then they were able to crank out the next bunch of new android models in rapid succession.

    4) Yes it is too slow. Yes Palm often has to wait in line behind the better selling brands (imagine if VZW is about to launch an iPhone... that's all they'd have time for). Yes, the HP acquisition probably delayed things by at least one carrier product cycle.

    But I can tell you that there are longstanding efforts by all parties to move new products through everyone's pipelines in a manner that makes them successful, as measured by return on the effort relative other things they could launch for the same amount of effort.

    We all want this next round to be amazingly successful. Lots of highly paid people are working to make that happen. It's entirely possible that they will screw it up worse than the last time, so we hope for the best. But even if we expect them to fail, it's safe to assume that they are spending considerable time and effort to do it right. It wouldn't make sense for these massive companies to operate in the manner that is often speculated by those of us that are watching from afar.

    I hope that helps us keep things on topic and the discussion productive.
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