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  1.    #1  
    UMTS frequencies and North American Unlocked GSM Palm Pre 2 Carrier compatability.
    I've seen dozens of new threads popping up asking about this. Its important to note that North America and Europe use different frequencies for 3G UMTS data. Hopefully the mods will sticky this in the Pre 2 discussion forum to minimize the maddness.

    UPDATED 02/19/2011 - Worldwide UTMS frequency (MHz) listings sorted by country and carrier now added at the end of this post! TTB

    This post lists the North American GSM carriers compatability with the North American GSM HP/PALM Pre 2 device.
    It's really simple once you understand that T-Mobile USA is playing in a ballpark all by themselves, not following any 3G standard for frequency use.
    Carrier .............................. Unlocked GSM Pre 2 Compatability
    AT&T Mobility ..................... Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    Rogers Canada (incl FIDO) .. Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    Bell Canada and Telus ......... Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    SaskTel Canada ...................Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    Telcel Mexico ..................... Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    T-Mobile USA ..................... Not 3G compatable, otherwise fully compatable Voice/Text/Data using 2.5G EDGE data
    Mobilicity Canada .............. Not 3G compatable, otherwise fully compatable Voice/Text/Data using 2.5G EDGE data
    Videotron Canada .............. Not 3G compatable, otherwise fully compatable Voice/Text/Data using 2.5G EDGE data
    WIND Mobile Canada .......... Not 3G compatable, otherwise fully compatable Voice/Text/Data using 2.5G EDGE data

    - The North American HP/Palm WebOS devices are Quad Band GSM and Dual Band UMTS.

    - Quad Band GSM means the device is worldwide ready. It will function on almost any GSM network worldwide, because there are four frequencies used for GSM, and EDGE (GSM Standard). No matter where you are in the world, if there's a GSM network, it's using at least two of those four frequencies based on the GSM Standard.

    - What most people do not know is that Quad Band GSM is not Quad Band UMTS. Just because a device is Quad Band GSM does not imply the device is 3G UMTS compatable everywhere in the world.

    - The two bands North American HP/PALM WebOS devices use for 3G connectivity are 850MHz and 1900MHz. Those two bands are the bands referenced by "Dual Band UMTS" in the specifications for North American (NA) HP/PALM WebOS devices.

    - T-Mobile USA , Mobilicity, WIND, and Videotron use 1700MHz (AWS) for 3G and T-Mobile is in the process of integrating the 2100 MHz spectrum for their own special flavor of 3G UMTS/HSDPA+ connectivity. That's how T-Mobile USA differs from all other carriers (worldwide, not just in North America) and that's the reason why you will not have 3G data connectivity using any HP/Palm WebOS device on the T-Mobile USA Mobilicity, WIND, and Videotron networks.

    - Keep in mind HP/Palm also makes European (EU) Dual Band UMTS devices. The frequencies used for 3G UMTS data are different in Europe, North America, and in Asia.

    - NOTE: There is one carrier in Australia using North American 850MHz and 1900MHz for 3G UMTS data connectivity, Telstra. All other GSM carriers in Australia use 900MHz and 2100MHZ for 3g UMTS connectivity. Rod Whitby recently reminded me that Australia is not considered part of Europe. What do I know, I'm just a silly American!

    If you aren't tired of reading yet, the following technical information from PALM clarifies things in a more technical manner.

    Reference:
    Palm Support: Understanding network bands and frequencies for a GSM/UMTS phone

    Understanding network bands and frequencies for a GSM/UMTS phone - Palm Support - Article ID: 65931

    The network bands and frequencies available for your webOS phone are listed below.

    Region ....................................... 2G frequencies ......................... 3G frequencies
    North America (US/CAN) ............. 850/900/1800/1900 GSM ................. 850/1900/2100 UMTS
    South America (LAT) .................. 850/900/1800/1900 GSM ................. 850/900/2100 UMTS
    Asia-Pacific .......................................... 1900/1800 GSM ................. 850/900/2100 UMTS
    Europe .................... 850/900/1800 /1900 (degraded) GSM ................. 900/2100 UMTS

    The Dual Band GSM North American communication board (marked "NA") found in the Telcel Palm Pre, the AT&T Palm Pre Plus, and the Unlocked GSM Palm Pre 2 sold in North America is designed specifically to use the 850 and 1900 3G UMTS frequencies.

    The Dual Band GSM European communication board (marked EU) found in the European Palm Pre, Palm Pre Plus, and Palm Pre 2 is designed specifically to use the 900 and 2100 3G UMTS frequencies.

    In a nutshell, if you purchase a European GSM Palm Pre 2/Pre/Pixi/Plus, it will only be capable of 2G EDGE data connecitivity on North American carriers.

    Conversely, if you purchase a North American GSM Palm Pre 2/Pre/Pixi/Plus, it will only be capable of 2G EDGE data connectivity in Europe

    One other note, because I'm certain someone will ask if I don't include it. Unlocking a device has nothing to do with what frequencies it operates on. Just because a device is unlocked doesn't have anything to do with the frequencies its hardware is designed to operate on.

    Worldwide UTMS Frequency (MHz) Listings sorted by country and carrier

    Africa, Americas, and Oceania:


    Asia:


    Europe:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by TopTongueBarry; 02/19/2011 at 03:44 PM.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.
  2. #2  
    Thx for this post. It really sux cause european Pre 2 is much more expensive and I woulndt hesitate for US price.
  3. #3  
    In Canada, Telus also works because they share the HSPA network with Bell. This combined network does NOT have an overlay GSM network, it is pure UMTS/HSPA. Hence the Euro Pre will not work at all.

    The newer AWS carriers (Wind, Moblicity) will NOT work.
    Last edited by ToniCipriani; 11/19/2010 at 08:44 AM.
  4. #4  
    WOW after reading that post if you didn't understand about phone band frequencies before, you certainly will now.

    Question: Is the aerial component from the US pre 2 different to that of the European pre 2 or are they the same aerial and the bands are locked within the software of the phone somehow?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by beastobadness View Post
    WOW after reading that post if you didn't understand about phone band frequencies before, you certainly will now.

    Question: Is the aerial component from the US pre 2 different to that of the European pre 2 or are they the same aerial and the bands are locked within the software of the phone somehow?
    I believe their transceiver chips are different. Last I saw the North America board clearly has NA silkscreened on it where as Euro has EU on it.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  6. #6  
    Wikipedia also provides a nice reference on where and which carrier uses what bands:

    List of UMTS networks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  7. TomD's Avatar
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    #7  
    Great post!

    You might want to edit that bit about Australia being across the Atlantic.

    Its across the Pacific.
    Tom
    Pilot Prō --> M100 --> Trēō 600 --> Trēō 700p -- > Prē
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTongueBarry View Post
    [

    This post lists the North American GSM carriers compatability with the North American GSM HP/PALM Pre 2 device.
    It's really simple once you understand that T-Mobile USA is playing in a ballpark all by themselves, not following any 3G standard for frequency use.
    Carrier ............................ Unlocked GSM Pre 2 Compatability
    AT&T Mobility .................... Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    Rogers Canada (incl FIDO) ... Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    Bell Canada (GSM network) .. Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    Telcel Mexico .................... Fully compatable Voice/Text/Data/3G
    T-Mobile USA .................... Not 3G compatable, otherwise fully compatable Voice/Text/Data using 2.5G EDGE data
    So the question that obviously comes to mind is why the heck did T-Mobile USA decide to use different frequencies for 3G Data?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by precentral_id View Post
    So the question that obviously comes to mind is why the heck did T-Mobile USA decide to use different frequencies for 3G Data?
    They bid for the spectrum in '06 and won it. I don't know why they opted to only build out 3G on those bands, rather than on their existing 1900MHz holdings. Capacity?

    From the Wikipedia article on AWS (1700/2100 in the US):

    "In the USA, the service is administered by the Federal Communications Commission. Bidding for this new spectrum started on August 9, 2006 and the majority of the frequency blocks were sold to T-Mobile USA to deploy their 3G wireless network in the United States. This move effectively kills the former MMDS and/or Wireless Cable service in the United States.[citation needed] Other networks that use the AWS band for services in the United States are i wireless' UMTS 3g network [3], as well as Cricket's and MetroPCS' CDMA networks."
  10. #10  
    BTW, to the OP, it's UMTS, not UTMS.
  11. #11  
    I was just told by an AT&T rep here in New York that if I buy an AT&T pre-paid SIM card, I will not get data with it, only minutes.

    I am not interested in a contract with AT&T and I don't need the minutes (have google voice) but need the data. Was the rep correct?
    This space for rent or lease. Inquire within.
  12. #12  
    I have the same question as MudShark22. Can I get voice *and* data with ATT for a phone that was not purchased from them using a pre-paid SIM card? If not, can I get them with a contract, even though the phone was not purchased through ATT?

    Second question: can I get insurance on a telephone that was not sold by a carrier, in this case ATT?

    Last question: If I purchase a pre-paid SIM card, is my phone number different with every SIM card?
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomD View Post
    Great post!

    You might want to edit that bit about Australia being across the Atlantic.

    Its across the Pacific.
    Corrected
    What do I know, I'm just a silly American!

    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    BTW, to the OP, it's UMTS, not UTMS.
    Must be the dyslexia .... Corrected

    Thanks,
    Barry
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.
  14. #14  
    so an European Pre 2 works with 3G Tmobile? (2100) or do both frequencies have to match?
    Long Time Palm and Sprint User!

    IIIxe, Tungsten T3, Samsung SPH-i500, Treo 700p, 755p, Centro, Palm Pre, Palm Pre+, 2.2.4 Franken Pre2 and a Touchpad!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by neit_jnf View Post
    so an European Pre 2 works with 3G Tmobile? (2100) or do both frequencies have to match?
    Nope, nothing but T-mobile phones get 3G on T-mobile networks.
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by neit_jnf View Post
    so an European Pre 2 works with 3G Tmobile? (2100) or do both frequencies have to match?
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Nope, nothing but T-mobile phones get 3G on T-mobile networks.
    Pastorrich1 is correct.

    The reason is that AT&T and European carriers (and most of the world) use UMTS for 3G.

    T-Mobile (at least in the USA) uses AWS different frequency) for their 3G. You need a phone made specifically for T-Mobile to get 3G.
    Last edited by Arthur Thornton; 11/22/2010 at 09:09 PM.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurthornton View Post
    T-Mobile (at least in the USA) uses AWS (an ENTIRELY different technology) for their 3G. You need a phone made specifically for T-Mobile to get 3G.
    AWS is UMTS, but it runs on 1700.

    Which is why you can actually unlock a BlackBerry 9700 on T-Mobile/Wind/Mobilicity and use 3G in Europe and Asia.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    AWS is UMTS, but it runs on 1700.

    Which is why you can actually unlock a BlackBerry 9700 on T-Mobile/Wind/Mobilicity and use 3G in Europe and Asia.
    Sorry.. I must have been a bit tired that day or something.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  19. #19  
    Can you use the GSM Pre on any of the discounted / no-contract mobile networks?

    I believe Straight Talk has a GSM network....
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjeffcoat View Post
    Can you use the GSM Pre on any of the discounted / no-contract mobile networks?

    I believe Straight Talk has a GSM network....
    Straight Talk is a TracFone brand, which is a reseller of Verizon Wireless services.

    But it also seems like Straight Talk got a GSM network reselling T-Mobile. That means that it would be limited to EDGE (2.5G)


    The GSM Pre2 should work with any GSM carrier. Just make sure you're getting a good deal for data usage, as it is known to use 200MB in 20 days or less just for backups and sending various data to Palm's servers.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
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