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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Wow - who brags about being a grass?
    Hmm. Well let's see here. This is as much a developer community site as a consumer community site. He is telling Palm that they have a leak. That is against the person's contractual requirements. If they are under NDA, they are required to keep everything they've heard quite.

    THE PERSON SIGNED A CONTRACT.

    So, how many times do you break contracts?
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Wow - who brags about being a grass?
    If you were involved in the Palm development community you would understand the history behind leaks of information in the early access program. The person breaking their NDA may think it's an innocent act with no ramifications, but that is far from the truth. Not only do these acts hurt Palm, they have serious consequences for the whole development community, some of which we've already felt.

    Without divulging any details (since I'm also under an NDA), it's basically like in school when someone would throw a piece of paper and hit the teacher. The teacher would turn around and ask who did it. Since no one fessed up, the teacher would punish the whole class.

    So I'm not bragging about turning him in. I'm trying to make it clear that his actions are not acceptable and will cause harm to the rest of the community. And hopefully anyone else in the early access program who sees this thread will understand that these types of actions are not tolerated by Palm or the rest of the development community.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  3. cgk
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    #43  
    So, how many times do you break contracts?
    Never but I don't make it my business to be a nark either - the first doesn't require the second.

    I think we should leave it there, as I suspect cultural differences means that we will never see eye-to-eye on the matter.
    Last edited by CGK; 11/11/2010 at 07:57 AM.
  4. #44  
    Maybe I missed something, but what exactly was disclosed? I don't need to be part of a secret coven of developers to know that there is no public information about whether these apis are available. He didn't say that they are, either. The only thing he disclosed was that he was in the program.

    DanPLC has also made this disclosure. DanPLC further disclosed in my opinion that the APIs are in fact available to developers in the program by publicly stating that the other had violated the NDA. If the first violated it, publicly stating that he did confirms whatever secret information he posted (again, not clear what that was). The confirmer is just as guilty. DanPLC, I'm afraid you'll have to report yourself.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    Maybe I missed something, but what exactly was disclosed?
    Yeah I think you're missing something. You should re-read the original post and my responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    DanPLC, I'm afraid you'll have to report yourself
    I already did...if you read my original post you would know that I've posted a link to this thread in the early access program's private forum. I'm sure the Palm folks will read this thread and anyone who reads my comments will know I haven't revealed anything.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Oy! So, to attempt to get back to the OP's original question, what kinds of things would the mic and camera apis enable when (hopefully not if) they become available?

    I'm thinking they both basically enable a huge category of things that can be done with signal/image processing. Some examples:
    - Voice modifier--talk into it and hear your voice replayed with various different effects
    - Voice recorder--kinda obvious
    - Voice dialer/launcher
    - Camera effects
    - Barcode reader
    Thank You. I think this thread took a wrong turn somewhere. lol
  7. #47  
    FYI;

    I have been a beta tester for a very complex software program for almost 10 years now, and this NDA stuff is not only real, but, imperitive to the developers.

    I can tell you that if I, in any way, publicaaly divulged information of any kind that violated the NDA agreement, I'd be kicked off the beta team so fast, I wouldnt even know the cyber-door got locked behind me.

    Seriously - ANY information that is covered under NDA shouldn't even be discussed publically, no matter what one's role is.

    Oh, and for the record, I, too, hope that there are camera and microphone api's coming in webos 2.0. Very cool apps could follow, and the app catalog would certainly begin to grow in exponential fashion!
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    FYI;

    I have been a beta tester for a very complex software program for almost 10 years now, and this NDA stuff is not only real, but, imperitive to the developers.

    I can tell you that if I, in any way, publicaaly divulged information of any kind that violated the NDA agreement, I'd be kicked off the beta team so fast, I wouldnt even know the cyber-door got locked behind me.

    Seriously - ANY information that is covered under NDA shouldn't even be discussed publically, no matter what one's role is.

    Oh, and for the record, I, too, hope that there are camera and microphone api's coming in webos 2.0. Very cool apps could follow, and the app catalog would certainly begin to grow in exponential fashion!
    I dont know if you were talking to me (the OP) or everyone else trying to discuss everything about APIs. But my original purpose of this thread was asking what people thought could be possible. Not asking developers to come out with their secrets. I think only two people got what I was trying to say. lol.
  9. #49  
    arthur,

    thanks for shedding some light as to why these api's aren't available despite all this time.

    unfortunately, I also get the impression that we will have to wait even longer...
  10. #50  
    The more I read about webOS functionality, the more it looks like a polished turd. Pretty on the outside, rotten on the inside.

    If webOS 2.0 is launched without voice/mic API's, I'll have an Android phone soon with the intention of maybe looking at webOS again in another year. Well, maybe a peek anyway. If development of basic functionality continues at this pace, Android, iOS, and Windows 7 Mobile will all have left webOS in the dust for virtually all functionality by that time.
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The more I read about webOS functionality, the more it looks like a polished turd. Pretty on the outside, rotten on the inside.

    If webOS 2.0 is launched without voice/mic API's, I'll have an Android phone soon with the intention of maybe looking at webOS again in another year. Well, maybe a peek anyway. If development of basic functionality continues at this pace, Android, iOS, and Windows 7 Mobile will all have left webOS in the dust for virtually all functionality by that time.
    They kinda already have left palm in the dust. Other than pretty card style multitasking webos doesn't have anything on the other platforms.

    And we already know how well pretty card multitasking has done so far in the market now don't we.
  12. #52  
    Hey, tipsters, it's maybe better to tip Palm that there are IOS, Android and Windows7 on the market now, not only Symbian and WM 2003. That would be more valuable tip for Palm.
    Now serious, its better for Palm to release those API's however unfinished they are, than to wait endlessly. Whole Android is based on - publish now fix later philosophy, and it's in better shape than WebOS.
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    #53  
    So there are a few people on here that have the beta SDK for testing and are under NDA. Are these people actually doing any development for WebOS 2? Or are they just testing?

    If I were in HPalms shoes, I know I would get that SDK (beta or not) to a trusted set of core developers ASAP... then ones who are going to make good and solid apps for them.

    Anyway, why the big secrecy about whether webos 2 supports the camera and mic api's anyway? Again, if I were HPalm, I'd leak that crap on purpose to generate developer interest.

    Actually, you know what? They should look at some of the apps on the other platforms that are missing from theirs and start enticing these developers to port their apps over. Developers who make apps like Shazam, SoundHound, those nifty augmented reality apps, and the ever popular Talking Tomcat. They need these apps whether they are useless or not. They are not short on cash anymore, so do what MS does and give away the hardware and the SDK and maybe some other incentives.

    They should know by now that a platform is dead without APPS! So the SDK, IMO, should be the highest priority.
  14. #54  
    Folks, please. Enough about the NDA. The topic of discussion is cool capabilities enabled by the mic or the camera APIs, which we know are coming.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  15. #55  
    how do we know they are coming.
    some say it is, some say it's not.
    doesn't the answer lie with someone who owns the pre 2 on SFR? Or are the french under a big NDA too???
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    how do we know they are coming.
    some say it is, some say it's not.
    doesn't the answer lie with someone who owns the pre 2 on SFR? Or are the french under a big NDA too???
    WebOS 2.0 running on a phone is a big difference than a WebOS 2.0 SDK.

    Just because the French have WebOS 2.0, doesnt mean that they could verify if there could be apps that utilize the Mic and Camera through an API.

    Plus, no apps built with the 2.0 Hybrid SDK are available yet on WebOS 2.0.

    Those apps just arent in the app store yet and havent been released. Period.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    WebOS 2.0 running on a phone is a big difference than a WebOS 2.0 SDK.

    Just because the French have WebOS 2.0, doesnt mean that they could verify if there could be apps that utilize the Mic and Camera through an API.

    Plus, no apps built with the 2.0 Hybrid SDK are available yet on WebOS 2.0.

    Those apps just arent in the app store yet and havent been released. Period.
    Someone with access to the most recent version of the 2.0 SDK has confirmed that there are no mic and camera APIs available.
  18. #58  
    Please stop talking about features in future product covered by NDA. The only ones who know can't legally say.

    If you want to ask what could developers do if they had API access to the camera, files, and mic API's, that we can talk about.

    Android and iPhone have nothing that even comes close to DanPLC's Music Player (Remix). But Dan needs Palm to open API's (at least to him) to publish his app. So the best music app on any platform has to stay hidden in the Homebrew storeroom. It's the same fate so far for NanPlayer but Palm hired the developer! +1!

    But instead of world class Music Players, we have the Palm Music Player that does not come close to our Music Players in our Treo 600's in 2003.

    Mic access allows speech and sound recognition in apps like:
    - Shazam can use the mic to listen to a song & tell you what it is
    - Voice Actions can do things like "send text to Jeff Miller See you at 10"
    - Talk to Me hears your spoken words and says it in other languages.
    - gStrings can tune your guitar, base, violin, piano, etc.

    Camera access allows apps like:
    - - Camera 360 - Camera Magic - Camera Pro (4x zoom) - Camera ZOOM FX - Vignette
    - - Layar can use the an Android camera to look beyond walls
    - - Barcode Scanner can use the camera to read barcodes

    With the mic app locked out, all we can hope to do is Just Type. iPhone and Android and even BlackBerry hit that over a year ago. Now they also listen to to their users. Check out the Voice Actions video to see why that is so important. Texting is illegal almost everywhere you drive now but Voice Actions isn't.

    If I had a choice between webOS 2.0 and open API's it would be open API's hands down. Palm has kept many of the best apps and developers locked out.

    An OS is just a life support system for apps.

    Real users don't buy an OS. They buy what it let's them have: the cool apps.

    Limited API access = Limited Apps.

    Limited Apps = Limited Users.

    It's now been 22 months since webOS was introduced. Even 12 months ago webOS had a bigger market share than Android.

    You can have the best OS on earth but if you don't share your toys with the other kids, they won't come over to your house.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/11/2010 at 11:37 PM.
  19. #59  
    If you were in charge of webOS what would be your priority?

    A. Open up the API's so that thousands of amazing apps could be added.

    B. Include 130 of our most popular patches that are already tested.

    C. Make multitasking work automatically without making the user remember to keep cards open.

    D. Add the Just Type feature your competitors have had over a year.
  20. #60  
    A & C
    C could by done by extra downward gesture which would flush all open cards from screen, and set dashboard notification with number of open apps.

    Just type is a step toward tablet with fixed field for typing. With physical keyboard there is no need for fixed field.
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