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  1. #21  
    While you're tipping Palm off, can you also let them know how insane they are for not exposing the mic and camera APIs to developers?

    I mean, wow, talk about a company that's learned nothing.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    While you're tipping Palm off, can you also let them know how insane they are for not exposing the mic and camera APIs to developers?

    I mean, wow, talk about a company that's learned nothing.
    Perhaps you should wait until Palm announces the official 2.0 SDK before you make judgements. Who knows what cool APIs may be released. I heard rumors of a new money-printing API that may be released. Imagine a $0.99 app that can help you print out $20 bills on HP printers. That's going to rock!
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
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    Twitter: @Hedami
  3. #23  
    barkerja has a pretty good track record on P|C though. If he says the mic and camera on the Pre aren't available to him as a developer, I'm inclined to believe him.

    I mean, really, considering webOS 2.0 is already final and shipping code, this is just astounding.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Perhaps you should wait until Palm announces the official 2.0 SDK before you make judgements. Who knows what cool APIs may be released. I heard rumors of a new money-printing API that may be released. Imagine a $0.99 app that can help you print out $20 bills on HP printers. That's going to rock!
    Wow, I just can't wait to get that API. I just hope it also allows £ aswell because $ are pretty useless in the UK
  5. #25  
    There is a public quote by Derek in this front page Round Table article

    http://www.precentral.net/round-table-hp-webos-20

    In fact, the only new APIs are related to new functions in webOS 2.0: Synergy and Just Type plug-ins. Thereís no new camera API and nothing for the microphone.
  6. #26  
    The 2.0 SDK is still in beta (Home - HP Palm Developer Center), so only Palm is qualified to announce which APIs will be available in the final version of the SDK.

    In regards to Derek's quote, Adam in the same article stated:

    Also, we have yet to get any confirmation or discussion of what new APIs to expect, such as the elusive microphone or camera APIs that were “announced” at the Developer Day earlier this year.
    And Dieter in his webOS 2.0 review indicated the APIs are present. So Dieter thinks they're present. Derek thinks they're not. Adam thinks they're not announced. It sounds to me like none of them really know the answer. But I know who does (clue: it rhymes with "calm"...as in calm down and wait for Palm to announce which APIs are available in 2.0).
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    The 2.0 SDK is still in beta (Home - HP Palm Developer Center), so only Palm is qualified to announce which APIs will be available in the final version of the SDK.
    But the issue is these APIs aren't available in the latest version of the SDK. As webOS 2.0 is already a shipping, golden product, we're past the point where developers are putting the final touches on their webOS 2.0 apps. This doesn't bode well for the idea of having apps like Shazam available anytime soon.
  8. #28  
    Just because some frenchies have devices with WebOS 2.0 on them does NOT mean that the making of 3rd party apps and Synergy plugins is ready or out of beta.

    There is a BIG difference between an OS and a Dev Kit for that OS.

    The very first WebOS was released in June 2009 with the Pre, and the SDK for WebOS wasnt released until a couple months later.

    So it is possible to have an OS version released without the SDK for that OS out of NDA and Beta.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the proof of that is that no one currently with WebOS 2.0 (France) can download any of the 2.0 built apps yet.
  9. #29  
    I assumed Palm would be smart enough to have all the core tools for developers to leverage so they could make an impact with the webOS 2.0 launch.

    Can you imagine if Microsoft launched Windows Phone 7 by saying "we promise Netflix and Shazam will show up eventually?"
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I assumed Palm would be smart enough to have all the core tools for developers to leverage so they could make an impact with the webOS 2.0 launch.

    Can you imagine if Microsoft launched Windows Phone 7 by saying "we promise Netflix and Shazam will show up eventually?"
    what part of the original palm SDK release made you think that?

    and for part2, you mean like with angry birds
    There are four lights.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Can you imagine if Microsoft launched Windows Phone 7 by saying "we promise Netflix and Shazam will show up eventually?"
    Actually they did something similar. They promised copy/paste would come later. And multitasking isn't in the initial release either. Personally I consider copy/paste and multitasking to be much more important than Netflix and Shazam.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Actually they did something similar. They promised copy/paste would come later. And multitasking isn't in the initial release either. Personally I consider copy/paste and multitasking to be much more important than Netflix and Shazam.
    Which Microsoft shouldn't get a pass on. It's somewhat understandable, though, given that WP7 is Microsoft's do-over in the mobile market.

    Palm's kept mic and camera access private for 18 months now. And we're seeing more and more usage of these input methods on other platforms. It's just baffling.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    The 2.0 SDK is still in beta (Home - HP Palm Developer Center), so only Palm is qualified to announce which APIs will be available in the final version of the SDK.

    In regards to Derek's quote, Adam in the same article stated:



    And Dieter in his webOS 2.0 review indicated the APIs are present. So Dieter thinks they're present. Derek thinks they're not. Adam thinks they're not announced. It sounds to me like none of them really know the answer. But I know who does (clue: it rhymes with "calm"...as in calm down and wait for Palm to announce which APIs are available in 2.0).
    Whether they are or are not available in the current sdk, has no bearing on whether they will or will not be available in the final version. It is sad that someone in here decided to break Palm's NDA on purpose. Fact of the matter is we (noone outside of HP/Palm) knows whether he was truly breaking the NDA or not.

    I wish the whiners would just go home and wait it out like the rest of us.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
  14. #34  
    Oy! So, to attempt to get back to the OP's original question, what kinds of things would the mic and camera apis enable when (hopefully not if) they become available?

    I'm thinking they both basically enable a huge category of things that can be done with signal/image processing. Some examples:
    - Voice modifier--talk into it and hear your voice replayed with various different effects
    - Voice recorder--kinda obvious
    - Voice dialer/launcher
    - Camera effects
    - Barcode reader
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Actually they did something similar. They promised copy/paste would come later. And multitasking isn't in the initial release either. Personally I consider copy/paste and multitasking to be much more important than Netflix and Shazam.
    Copy/Paste works in WP7 its just not system wide. First party apps multitask 3rd do not, some might have access to multitasking but its not enabled for ever dev to use.
  16. #36  
    I'm not a developer, but I do understand what a mic and camera api can potentially allow a device to do.

    what I don't understand is why these api's are available for some "dumb" phones, and all other smartphone platforms (correct me if I'm wrong), except webOS.

    maybe someone can explain to me in layman's terms, what specifically about webOS is it that makes these api's so difficult for palm to release, even after 18 months since it's been in the market with software updates to 1.4.5, and now possibly 2.0.

    is it a hardware limitation for the current cro of pres and pixis? Is it palm not considering it a priority? is there some extremely difficult aspect of programming for webOS that makes these api's difficult to make? Is there a major stability issue or security issue? Is it the carriers putting limitations on these api's? Is there just "no need" for it from devs?

    someone please explain...
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    I'm not a developer, but I do understand what a mic and camera api can potentially allow a device to do.

    what I don't understand is why these api's are available for some "dumb" phones, and all other smartphone platforms (correct me if I'm wrong), except webOS.

    maybe someone can explain to me in layman's terms, what specifically about webOS is it that makes these api's so difficult for palm to release, even after 18 months since it's been in the market with software updates to 1.4.5, and now possibly 2.0.

    is it a hardware limitation for the current cro of pres and pixis? Is it palm not considering it a priority? is there some extremely difficult aspect of programming for webOS that makes these api's difficult to make? Is there a major stability issue or security issue? Is it the carriers putting limitations on these api's? Is there just "no need" for it from devs?

    someone please explain...
    +1
  18. #38  
    i'm not a develper or anything, but my understanding is that api's are ways for programs or "apps" to access system rescoureses and protocals to get stuff done. So the camera api has a certain protocol in the os, and the api will allow a program to use that protocall to access the camera. Now when an api isn't available, it means that the protocol isn't final. So if you write an app to access the camera, if palm were to come up with a better more effiecient protocol then the program you originally wrote would then be nonfuctional and would have to be rewritten. So that is why it takes time to get these api's final, palm wants to make sure it's as good as can be because once the api is final they can't change it.
    iPhone 4s 64gb for personal, at&t Prē 3 for business. Best of both worlds.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandez21 View Post
    i'm not a develper or anything, but my understanding is that api's are ways for programs or "apps" to access system rescoureses and protocals to get stuff done. So the camera api has a certain protocol in the os, and the api will allow a program to use that protocall to access the camera. Now when an api isn't available, it means that the protocol isn't final. So if you write an app to access the camera, if palm were to come up with a better more effiecient protocol then the program you originally wrote would then be nonfuctional and would have to be rewritten. So that is why it takes time to get these api's final, palm wants to make sure it's as good as can be because once the api is final they can't change it.
    Mostly true. They could change it but it would kill off a bunch of apps in the process.

    What makes APIs for camera, microphone, etc. on webOS tougher than say Android or iOS is that webOS is using JavaScript (again, NOTHING like Java) for its backend, and JavaScript isn't as commonly powerful (without some serious additions, such as the Mojo framework) as C/C++/Java/etc.

    Also, the reason it has taken so long for them to have even hinted at any of those aforementioned APIs is that they have been working on the underlying system for years. Then they finally had a release but it wasn't perfect. They had relatively little cash and they couldn't afford to go spending it wildly.

    You'll notice they announced the camera and mic APIs in April, around the time when Palm was secretly put up for sale. This is probably because they figured they'd go all in at that point and get as much done with their short cash supply as they could so they could go any route necessary.

    Additionally, they can't just let any app use the camera or microphone APIs at any time. They have to put preventative measures in place for some things, and it seems they did (if you look at the webOS doctor thread, I posted a finding where there will be a dashboard notification letting you know that an app is recording video or audio). Not to mention the fact that with webOS 1.4.5 and lower there is no access to the USB partition for apps (because of an oversight by Palm engineers with regards to the over-the-air update) unless you use the webOS doctor or webOS Internals' fstab patch. And not to mention Palm has said nothing publicly about whether or not apps will be able to write files outside of a PDK component, though having a camera app kind of requires that you can write files (because there will obviously be some apps that use camera APIs and mic APIs for things other than identifying songs; probably an updated version of that time lapse maker, probably a camera app that lets you snap a shot and edit the photo then save it, probably a video app that lets you add stuff inside it, maybe even a better camera app, you never know).

    So these things can take some time to make. And they take even longer to make them work better. Look how long it took them to make the video camera addition to the camera app. Just goes to show how long it can take to make these things work out in the best possible way.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  20. cgk
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    You are correct. Everyone who has access to the 2.0 SDK is under NDA and cannot talk about the 2.0 SDK or APIs except in the private forum. I'm going to be posting a link to this thread in the private forums and hopefully Palm will remove this person from the early access program.
    Wow - who brags about being a grass?
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