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  1. delta7's Avatar
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    #81  
    I think with windows phone 7 pushing ease ofuse and kess clicks to get things done if they're able to amount at least 10% marketshare I think palm is toast. Even with the new devices coming next yearpalm needs more advertsing and form factors. Smartphones today are more style than substance, apps and games are more important than mustitasking and organization.

    palms life depends on wp7 to me.
  2. #82  
    HP is a company with much broader field of market presence than only smart-phones, same as Apple or Motorola, but on the other hand, HP didn't invested much in smart-phone division as Apple or Motorola, and I don't think that Palm's survival inside HP depends on Pre2 success. As Hurd (last guy) stated, Palm wasn't bought for smart-phone business at all. Pre2 is a calculated loss for HP, and lack of advertising is logical, because there is noting special to advertise, and HP wont add more money to the fire. Production and launch itself of Pre2 is probably inherited obligation and part of buyout agreement. I'm guessing it's much expensive to cancel orders from suppliers in a last minute, than to carry out production and keep it low level. Pre2 will be launched till the end of 2010 - period -It won't be successful - period - it wouldn't be more successful if Pre2 is launching tomorrow - period.
    How long is HP in possession of WebOS? 6 months? Expecting something radical before 3/4 of 2011 is irrational. Would it be a new killer smart-phone, a new entry level smart-phone, a unified graphical toaster interface of unified graphical control interface for HP printers we will see.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by delta7 View Post
    I think with windows phone 7 pushing ease ofuse and kess clicks to get things done if they're able to amount at least 10% marketshare I think palm is toast. Even with the new devices coming next yearpalm needs more advertsing and form factors. Smartphones today are more style than substance, apps and games are more important than mustitasking and organization.

    palms life depends on wp7 to me.
    If you truly believe that, then stick a fork in Palm because WP7 isn't going away. MS has a good base of customers already and much to leverage such as Office, zune & xbox. Plus it doesn't hurt having your OS on 90% or so of all computers. I'm sure they won't leverage that either right? :P

    IMO, HP/Palm won't soon (if ever) be a hit in the smartphone industry. Premium route? Apple relies on profit margin over marketshare. But HP has nothing to leverage. No ecosystem. No core services. That would be quite a feat for HP to pull off.

    Economy route? That requires selling a lot of handsets. And IMO, the low end isn't really there given the premiums sell at 199 and less and pretty much fill that space already and all require the same expensive plans. There's still the problem of not having the ecosystem, core services, etc.

    HP has said they're interested in tablets though. No MS there to compete with besides the ones HP already makes. And not having to worry about carriers, they could find the retail space as HP has no problems with that. But again, no ecosystem, no core services, etc. All of which likely means they're shooting for high volume, low priced tablets. Likely will have the basics that you see in the ipad such as e-reader, youtube, browser, etc and just enough apps to be..ok.

    If HP could make a name for itself in tablets, scale there, then maybe they could build from there and go back to smartphones. I see them having success with a lower priced tablet and webOS is not that bad. Certainly it'd stack up with the Android tablets & Blackberry playbook but HP needs to move on it. Definitely need a 10" version..or bigger.

    In this light, is the hush hush Pre 2 release really so bad? Not really. Marketshare reports have Palm remaining steady in an expanding market. So sales are increasing very slowly. It keeps the brand somewhat alive..not dead at least. Have to look at this as a marathon. Is announcing webOS 2 in a press release so bad? I'd say yes but only because that should be reserved for an event. But HP could mitigate that with a tablet and updated webOS version for that tablet.

    Now as a smartphone fan, that's not too exciting. But its better than nothing. At the very least HP will oblige with new phones. Success with tablets is the key.
    Last edited by cardfan; 11/09/2010 at 08:03 AM.
  4. fredc1's Avatar
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    #84  
    Apps are not as important as you might think...

    "Apps don't appear to be helping companies sell more smartphones, a study from international accounting and consulting firm Deloitte suggests.

    According to the study, which surveyed 1,960 people between the ages of 14 and 75 in June and July, 58 percent of consumers say a smartphone's size, quality, keyboard style, and price factor into their smartphone buying decisions. Just 18 percent of respondents said that mobile applications influence which smartphone they eventually decide to buy."
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    Apps are not as important as you might think...

    "Apps don't appear to be helping companies sell more smartphones, a study from international accounting and consulting firm Deloitte suggests.

    According to the study, which surveyed 1,960 people between the ages of 14 and 75 in June and July, 58 percent of consumers say a smartphone's size, quality, keyboard style, and price factor into their smartphone buying decisions. Just 18 percent of respondents said that mobile applications influence which smartphone they eventually decide to buy."
    Apps are important as you might think, but not in the way you might think. The apps aren't bringing people to the leading platforms. The leading platforms are bringing the apps to them because they have the people and mass appeal. The apps aren't a cause, but rather a symptom of success and market penetration.

    Well, that is unless you believe that it's completely coincidental that app largess is almost exactly proportionate to the popularity of current platforms.
  6. #86  
    Just spoke with my local store rep. He verified a November 18th launch for the Pre 2, along with the Droid Pro.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by tsquare2112 View Post
    Just spoke with my local store rep. He verified a November 18th launch for the Pre 2, along with the Droid Pro.
    I had a rep tell me last week it was comeing out today lol.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta
  8. PLinger's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    In regard to the iPhone's getting operating system upgrades, Apple's original iPhone received OS updates all the way to iOS 3.1.3 which was released in February, 2010. A 3 year life span of OS enhancements and support is incredible, but the fact of the matter is that the original iPhone simply can't handle the iOS 4.0 software.

    Some iPhone 3 and 3GS users have decided to downgrade to iOS 3.1.3, but it was their choice. Apple gave users the option of going to the newest, latest and greatest they had despite the iPhone 3 being 2 years old and the iPhone 3GS being 1 year old.
    But the iOS upgrades the iPhone 3G and 3GS received are not the same available for iPhone4—and the missing features are not just due to hardware differences either. Time and time again the iOS jailbreak community has unlocked software features that Apple claimed the 'old' phones couldn't handle (the most recent example being the HDR camera option). As far as I can tell the only difference between webOS 2.0 for the various devices (Pre2 to Pixi-) is the absence of flash for the Pixis. Yes I'm ****ed that the Pixi line is very handicapped compared to the Pre line but I'm laying the majority of the blame on third parties for that one.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaudenti View Post
    I was in an airport a while back and there was an announcement that the plane had some minor mechanical difficulties and the flight was going to be delayed. People started whining and moaning and complaining. I'm thinking, gee if there is something not quite right with the plane, please fix it. I'd rather wait a little bit and have a fully functional and safe plane than have to leave right on time.

    If HP/Palm is working out some last minute detail with the Pre 2, fine. I can wait.



    But it better be out by end of Nov, or end of year at the latest!!!
    This isn't really a valid comparison.

    The people waiting for their plane had already paid for their ticket. What do you suppose would have happened if the passengers waiting for their flight would have been offered an immediate departure on an aircraft from a different carrier for no additional charge?
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Linger View Post
    But the iOS upgrades the iPhone 3G and 3GS received are not the same available for iPhone4—and the missing features are not just due to hardware differences either. Time and time again the iOS jailbreak community has unlocked software features that Apple claimed the 'old' phones couldn't handle (the most recent example being the HDR camera option). As far as I can tell the only difference between webOS 2.0 for the various devices (Pre2 to Pixi-) is the absence of flash for the Pixis. Yes I'm ****ed that the Pixi line is very handicapped compared to the Pre line but I'm laying the majority of the blame on third parties for that one.
    I probably (read definitely) overstepped in my comment about the latest and greatest in regard to Apple's support for existing devices. That said, there were substantial enhancements and capabilities made available to devices up to 3 years after their release.

    To be fair, many iPhone 3G and 3GS users felt their devices were incapable of supporting the iOS 4 which WAS actually released to them. Apple might be erring on the side of caution trying not to turn their user's phones into "bricks" as the hilarious EVO vs iPhone 4 flash video might suggest, haha. I guess I'm just saying that the performance impact of some features might be too much to bear for mainstream users (not the guys jailbreaking their phones, etc.) Who knows?

    The bottom line is that Android phones don't get anywhere NEAR the level of support that iOS or webOS phones have historically received from Apple or HP/Palm.
  11. #91  
    That's because Android is open source and up to manufacturers and carriers to upgrade. Should Google start making more demands on how it should be upgraded, it may not be "open" anymore.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The bottom line is that Android phones don't get anywhere NEAR the level of support that iOS or webOS phones have historically received from Apple or HP/Palm.
    Your "bottom line" is incorrect. Google has made 6 major Android releases in the 2 years following the 1.0 release, with a 7th release planned for later this month. Palm has had 4 major webOS releases (and a few needed bug-fix patches) since the Pre released with webOS 1.02 17 months ago, with a 5th release sort of underway now.

  13. eps1lon3's Avatar
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    #93  
    Verizon is busy promoting the Droid line and more recently the iPad so that those products get good sales. It would make no sense just to silently slip the Pre 2 in their lineup, they wouldn't get as good sales.

    It's sorta like the situation with Sprint. They're busy promoting their 4G phones so they make more money. You have to remember these companies make money off of the plans, not the phones. 4G has that $10 extra thing you gotta pay for.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Your "bottom line" is incorrect. Google has made 6 major Android releases in the 2 years following the 1.0 release, with a 7th release planned for later this month. Palm has had 4 major webOS releases (and a few needed bug-fix patches) since the Pre released with webOS 1.02 17 months ago, with a 5th release sort of underway now.

    I thought he meant firmware upgrades. It's true Google releases new OS but it's up to carriers or manufacturers to upgrade existing phones. Some do not do so in a timely manner or not at all. Motorola is one example. Except for Verizon Droids and Milestones, every one of their other Android phones got kicked to the curb or put on the back burner.

    US Cliq just got 2.1 today, very, very late. Backflip is up next, also very, very late. International owners of both phones are screwed entirely. Also no upgrade in sight yet for the Cliq XT.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I thought he meant firmware upgrades. It's true Google releases new OS but it's up to carriers or manufacturers to upgrade existing phones. Some do not do so in a timely manner or not at all. Motorola is one example. Except for Verizon Droids and Milestones, every one of their other Android phones got kicked to the curb or put on the back burner.

    US Cliq just got 2.1 today, very, very late. Backflip is up next, also very, very late. International owners of both phones are screwed entirely. Also no upgrade in sight yet for the Cliq XT.
    dont forget the SE Xperia
  16. anifan's Avatar
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by eps1lon3 View Post
    Verizon is busy promoting the Droid line and more recently the iPad so that those products get good sales. It would make no sense just to silently slip the Pre 2 in their lineup, they wouldn't get as good sales.

    It's sorta like the situation with Sprint. They're busy promoting their 4G phones so they make more money. You have to remember these companies make money off of the plans, not the phones. 4G has that $10 extra thing you gotta pay for.
    Actually they might have fun pushing the Pre 2 as a companion mobile hotspot to the iPad.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by anifan View Post
    Actually they might have fun pushing the Pre 2 as a companion mobile hotspot to the iPad.
    That's if it gets the mobile hotspot

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    dont forget the SE Xperia
    Did you mean the X10? Xperia is the Windows phone, isn't it? Sony Ericsson already committed to the 2.1 upgrade, albeit slowly because the X10 series is worldwide on several carriers or unlocked. They have started rolling it out.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. PLinger's Avatar
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    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I thought he meant firmware upgrades. It's true Google releases new OS but it's up to carriers or manufacturers to upgrade existing phones. Some do not do so in a timely manner or not at all. Motorola is one example. Except for Verizon Droids and Milestones, every one of their other Android phones got kicked to the curb or put on the back burner.

    US Cliq just got 2.1 today, very, very late. Backflip is up next, also very, very late. International owners of both phones are screwed entirely. Also no upgrade in sight yet for the Cliq XT.
    But HP/Palm+WebOS is no different in that regard. I had to wait for 2 extra months to get the 1.4.5 update on my AT&T Pixi+ and webOS phones in Mexico still haven't gotten the update iirc. Google+Android actually have the advantage in that there is one phone, the Nexus One, that has guaranteed timely updates. That's what I'm hoping HP/Palm is offering with theunlocked Pre2 for developers program
  20. #100  
    BTW, there's still no comment from Sprint as to whether they will get the Pre 2?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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