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  1.    #1  
    I posted this in a comment thread but wanted to put this over here as well. It seems there is a lot of misconceptions about Palm's choice to "only" put a 1ghz processor in the Pre 2 and how it is not that much of a step up over the overclocked Pre's out there. Here is some perceptive:

    The 1ghz processor in the Pre 2 is NOT dated, or slow, or a minor speed bump. It is the fastest phone processor available today, bar none. There is no processor that Palm could have put in the phone faster than the TI 3630. Nothing faster is available in the world. It is a 45nm system on a chip (SoC) that contains the Imagination Technologies PowerVR SGX 530 GPU. This is, by far, the most powerful GPU available in any smart phone today. (which is why the Pre and Pre2 are such good gaming phones). It is also used in the Droid X. In gaming benchmarks, this GPU blows away any 1Ghz Snapdragon SoC with GPU. It is actually very similar in power to the Apple A4 SoC in the iPhone4- they use the same GPU and the same reference Cortex A8 chip. The L1 cache was doubled on the TI3630 over the old chip. It is also one of the most power efficient SoC on the market. So, let's be sure about one thing - Palm put the fastest chip and GPU available in the known universe as of today in the Pre 2. Some folks are confused about that. Nothing faster exists IN THE WORLD.
    Palm could have upped the camera megapixels and add more camera features. Ok, but not a big deal to me. Any real camera will take much better pictures than your phone. As for the number of pixels, the Pre has a sharp screen. That is because the pixel density is fine for the screen size. More pixels (higher resolution) would probably be useless on a 3.1 screen. You would be able to tell or use it. It may not even be available. Therefore, as long as you like a 3.1 screen, then Palm probably made a good decision and maybe the only decision available to it. 16GB storage is, to me, more than sufficient. I bet 99% of uses don't use over 10GB in the life of the phone.
    That gets to the rub: I think that they should have made the phone bigger. It seems that most agree. The smartphone market has definitely moved toward bigger, rather than smaller. Palm still has a good business market, however (I'm one of those businessmen) and the screen size is still way bigger than most of my co-workers who carry a blackberry. I think that once people see this device, it will grow on me. Engagadet and PhoneScoop say that the operating system on the TI chip is buttery smooth and is really fast. If so, the Pre 2 might be the phone for me. I'd like to know what my choices are, so Palm will hopefully announce their upcoming lineup soon - even if they just say, we have a over 4 inch coming and a 4 inch, etc. Just give us an idea of what is coming and when. After I see what is available, I may go with the Pre 2 and decide that 3.1 inches is perfect for me.
    Also, any other slab phone, or superphone that Palm releases now - will also have the same CPU and GPU has the Pre 2, because again nothing is faster. The Droid X, the first phone with this processor, released on July 15. So, Palm will be 4 months later in the US. However, in early 2011, Ti is releasing its new SoC, the OMAP 4. This is a dual core chip with each chip running at 1ghz+ (which means at least 1ghz). The L2 cache will be doubled to 1MB shared by both chips. These will be Cortex A9 chips - the first ARM out of order microprocessors - like current AMD and Intel CPUs (but not Atom, which is not out of order). The memory interface is also getting faster. OMAP 4 is going to be a big jump in performance over that of the Pre 2. Imagine how fast Web OS 2.0 will run on the OMAP4! Ti says that they are getting page loads in 2 secs with a dual core processor OMAP4. It is going to be a game changer on multitasking OS's like WebOS.
    TI says that in 2011, after OMAP 4 is released, the Pre 2 SoC, the Ti3630, will become a more mainstream SoC. Right now, the Ti 3630 in the Pre 2 is only found on flagship or "superphones". Which is exactly where the Pre 2 will fit in 2011 - as a mainstream smartphone. Ti says that OMAP 4 has already sampled to its customers. I'm sure Palm has phones running on it right now. Roadrunner?
  2. eps1lon3's Avatar
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    #2  
    Where'd you get your information from?

    I actually was doing some research the other day being curious about the changes in the processor from 3430 to 3630. Here's what I found: The 3630 is just a 45nm die-shrink of the 65nm 3430. Same L1, same everything, just smaller. Here's where I found my information:
    OMAP 3430: Texas Instruments OMAP 3430 - CPUlist | PDAdb.net - Comprehensive Database of Smartphone, PDA, PDA Phone, PNA, netbook & Mobile Device Specifications
    OMAP 3630: Texas Instruments OMAP 3630 - CPUlist | PDAdb.net - Comprehensive Database of Smartphone, PDA, PDA Phone, PNA, netbook & Mobile Device Specifications

    I actually wish that you could prove me wrong for the better. But still, by no means is the 3630 a lazy processor.

    On a side note: I found it quite interesting that the recommended maximum frequency for the 3630 was 720Mhz. Does this mean Palm is overclocking the processor to 1Ghz? Seems so to me, if the source is reliable enough.
  3. #3  
    I agree I think the Pre2 is getting wrongfully hated on by many. The specs are similar to other super phones. The Flat screen that is flush with the entire front of phone is very nice. Its what the original pre should have been all along. That is why I think Palm wants to have another crack at what otherwise should have been a very successful product.

    I also think HP will not let Palm release anything new until they are ready for full implementation of their webos vision. So they only let palm release a pre2 and possibly a pixi2 because it would seem as these are normal updates to existing pre-acuisition products. So even if Palm had something new before hp bought them, since it wasnt released yet hp probably scrapped it because they don't want tech world thinking it was their work; since they probably have something truly fascinating up their sleeves and want whatever that is to be the first new product introduced.
  4. bdog421's Avatar
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    #4  
    The pre2 is in line with the most powerful smartphones on the market. However when including the gpu chip, it is not. The iphone uses the sgx-535 which is about 2x more powerful than the sgx-530 and the galaxy-S class phones use the sgx-540 which is again roughly 2x more powerful than the sgx-535. The slapdragons aren't even in the same ballpark. Maybe the newer ones like in the G2, but I haven't seen any 3D benchmarks yet.

    But all in all I do agree with you, the ti omap3630 with the sgx-530 is a potent combo. I've had the pleasure of using both the evo and droidX and the evo doesn't even compare to the droidX(both running froyo), in terms of web browsing and gaming.

    The pre2 will be a sweet machine, no doubt, but I think people are mainly mad that palm didn't make an evo, iphone or droidX like device. In time, I'm sure they will.
  5. #5  
    Everybody agrees it is the best processor but all the rivals introduced products with it 6 months back and hence people are not happy that palm is coming out with it NOW. On top of it with nothing else changing in the hardware makes people think its the same phone with a little spec bump to catch up with the competition who introduced it 6 months back. Since this phone is not better than others, it cant be a high end phone, more likely a middle range phone
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Everybody agrees it is the best processor but all the rivals introduced products with it 6 months back and hence people are not happy that palm is coming out with it NOW. On top of it with nothing else changing in the hardware makes people think its the same phone with a little spec bump to catch up with the competition who introduced it 6 months back. Since this phone is not better than others, it cant be a high end phone, more likely a middle range phone
    If that is the best processor currently available what else would you want them to do, wait for a new processor to come out before they launch a phone.

    it is the same phone with a spec bump, whats wrong with that (doubling the mhz on processor is not exactly little)

    It is a high end phone when compared to what others consider high end.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by eps1lon3 View Post
    Where'd you get your information from?

    I actually was doing some research the other day being curious about the changes in the processor from 3430 to 3630. Here's what I found: The 3630 is just a 45nm die-shrink of the 65nm 3430. Same L1, same everything, just smaller. Here's where I found my information:
    OMAP 3430: Texas Instruments OMAP 3430 - CPUlist | PDAdb.net - Comprehensive Database of Smartphone, PDA, PDA Phone, PNA, netbook & Mobile Device Specifications
    OMAP 3630: Texas Instruments OMAP 3630 - CPUlist | PDAdb.net - Comprehensive Database of Smartphone, PDA, PDA Phone, PNA, netbook & Mobile Device Specifications

    I actually wish that you could prove me wrong for the better. But still, by no means is the 3630 a lazy processor.

    On a side note: I found it quite interesting that the recommended maximum frequency for the 3630 was 720Mhz. Does this mean Palm is overclocking the processor to 1Ghz? Seems so to me, if the source is reliable enough.
    That site is not up to date. That's common for tech blog sites or user generated content sites, especially when dealing with high-end cellular SoC's cause the information is often not available without an NDA.

    The 3630 is *NOT* just a 45nm die-shrink of the 65nm 3430. The L1 cache in the OMAP3630 is double that in the OMAP3430. There are also other significant design changes. And there is an OMAP3630-100 device available, which runs natively at 1GHz. It's in the Motorola Droid/X for example.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 10/30/2010 at 01:15 AM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro1 View Post
    If that is the best processor currently available what else would you want them to do, wait for a new processor to come out before they launch a phone.

    it is the same phone with a spec bump, whats wrong with that (doubling the mhz on processor is not exactly little)

    It is a high end phone when compared to what others consider high end.
    This is what would not be considered a spec bump:
    - Gorilla glass
    - 1GHz native processor
    -540 graphic chip
    - 1GB RAM
    - 720p resolution,
    - A screen size bigger than 3.7inch,
    - Both keyboard and keyboard less version
    - Front facing camera,
    - A digital compass,
    - Wimax and LTE network,
    - Bluetooth 3.0,
    - wifi n.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  9. #9  
    Do we actually know that the Pre 2 runs a 3630? If yes, what's your reference?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    Do we actually know that the Pre 2 runs a 3630? If yes, what's your reference?
    I have not seen a confirmed verification with actual evidence (e.g. the contents of /proc/cpuinfo). There is a story on mobileburn.com that appears to be authoritative (or at least states it as a fact), but they show no actual evidence, so they could easily be just repeating guesses from elsewhere.

    The OMAP3630-100 is the obvious choice (and is by far the most likely in my opinion), but until I see the output from /proc/cpuinfo published somewhere, it's still unconfirmed conjecture.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  11. #11  
    Please stop going on and on about the phone being too small. That's a very personal opinion, and has to do with comfort and hand size, etc. I find its size to (finally) be pretty close to perfect, if anything it's a bit too big, too loud (volume) and too bright (in the dark). Your opinions are great, and even if they are the majority, just remember they are not everyone's, and they are opinions at best .
    Besides, lol, there are plenty of (too many?) oversized gadgets out there. Is the Pre series the only one that will fit in the rest of our hands? One of the things that got me interested in the Pre to begin with was that "River Rock" design, that didn't take both hands for me to hold, or a briefcase of a bag to carry around. Right, I know I can't type one handed lol. As for size, that's actually one of the few things about the device that actually works and works well! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here

    As for carriers, no one specified domestic US or not, so multiple carriers technically still holds. I am sure others will get it just as VZW was always last. They have invested a lot in the Pre, maybe they want to make sure they get it back?
    Last edited by copasetic; 10/30/2010 at 07:54 AM.
  12. #12  
    It is too small to be a flagship device or high end seller. on the other hand its a great minor spec bump phone for developers to get their hand on 2.0 and those interested in a midrange device.
  13. Helidos's Avatar
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    #13  
    I though the best gpu on the market atm is the PowerVR 540 which is not found in the omap 3630 but the Hummingbird.

    Your claims of nothing faster in the world should be corrected to nothing faster available to PALM!!!

    Your acting as if the competition is sitting around waiting for HP/Palm to play catch up.. Motorola CEO already made claims of a 2ghz Droid by years end.

    Samsung already announced its dual core cpu which will be coming to select customer by years end and mass produced first half of 2011

    LG also is claiming dual core phones by years end using the Terga 2 from Nvidia.

    The problem is HP is releasing this little River Stone in raging river rapids...
    Maybe they can bounce around on the bottom while they play catch up to the big boys making the waves on top.
  14. #14  
    The Palm Pre 2 smartphone has been reengineered to do more of what you want to do—faster. Quickly switch between multiple open apps. These are what most users no about the pre2 ~ Color
    Black
    Operating system
    HP webOS platform
    Display
    3.1-inch multitouch screen with a vibrant 24-bit color, 320x480 resolution HVGA display
    Keyboard
    Slide-out physical QWERTY keyboard
    Email2
    Microsoft® Exchange email with Microsoft
    Direct Push Technology
    POP3/IMAP (Yahoo!® Mail, Gmail™,
    AOL, Hotmail®, etc.)
    Messaging3
    Integrated IM, SMS, and MMS
    GPS4
    Built-in GPS
    Digital camera
    5-megapixel camera with LED flash, extended depth of field, geotagging, and video capture
    Sensors
    Accelerometer, ambient light, and proximity
    Media formats supported
    Audio formats: MP3, AAC, AAC+, eAAC+, AMR, QCELP, WAV
    Video formats: MPEG-4, H.263, H.264
    Wireless connectivity5
    Wi-Fi 802.11b/g with WPA, WPA2, WEP, 802.1X authentication;
    Bluetooth® wireless technology 2.1+ EDR with A2DP stereo Bluetooth support;
    Wi-Fi router functionality for up to five devices using Palm mobile hotspot.5
    Memory
    16GB (~15GB user available)
    USB mass storage support
    Battery lif
    Up to 5.5 hours talk time and 350 hours standby time
    Unlocked (UMTS)
    Up to 5 hours talk time and 350 hours standby time
    Connector
    Charger/microUSB connector with USB 2.0 Hi-SpeedHeadhone jack
    3.5mm stereoHP Touchstone Charging Dock7
    Compatible
    Palm Pre Touchstone Back Cover included
    Dimensions
    Width: 59.6mm (2.35 inches)
    Height: 100.7mm (3.96 inches)
    Thickness: 16.9mm (0.67 inches)
    Weight
    145 grams (5.1 ounces)

    I'm content with the pre2 for now..
    until Hp|Palm decide on coming out with something new.
  15. #15  
    Even though power vr SGX530 is not as powerful as 535 (found in iphone) or 540 (found in galaxy S) it is not hampering the performance of cortex a8 devices. The device is only as fast as the slowest component in the system and in the case of SOCs most of them are hampered by the bandwidth between the cpu and GPU. In real life there is not that much performance difference between these devices. Adreno 200 found in the frist generation qualcomm socs is the slowest but the most prevalent and is able to run most games just as smoothly as iphone.

    TI will pair up SGX 540 with their cortex A9 based CPUs as they believe it will be a better fit with that SOC. galaxy S is the only phone to have SGX540 currently and unless it is adopted much more than every other device combined software would still be written to take advantage of the most comon denominator. By the time SGX540 specific software is out most people would have switched over to A9 based arm devices anyway.

    In my opinion Ti3630/3640 are pretty powerful, certain on par with anything out there right now. The ONLY thing disappointing about the PRE2 is the camera I think it should have had auto focus but maybe it will be good even without it.

    PRE2 the name itself implies it is the same form factor as the previous one e.g droid 2 vs droid 1, htc tilt vs htc tilt 2. I want another phone with the same or better internals but a different formfactor to be sold "alongside" PRE2 as there are plenty of people happy with its size.

    A higher resolution screen or front facing camera might be good to have but for a 3.1 " screen and a phone that is packed so tightly it would have been a miracle had they been able to add these and kept the size the same.
  16. eps1lon3's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    That site is not up to date. That's common for tech blog sites or user generated content sites, especially when dealing with high-end cellular SoC's cause the information is often not available without an NDA.

    The 3630 is *NOT* just a 45nm die-shrink of the 65nm 3430. The L1 cache in the OMAP3630 is double that in the OMAP3430. There are also other significant design changes. And there is an OMAP3630-100 device available, which runs natively at 1GHz. It's in the Motorola Droid/X for example.

    -- Rod
    Aha! Thanks for clearing that up, Rod.
  17. #17  
    All the Pre 2 detractors will try out a Pre 2, and find out the only thing they had against it is that it's not an Evo or an iPhone. HP didn't buy Palm for the hardware, but for the software. HP is releasing a phone with a 1GHz processor and a nice screen. That put together with webOS 2.0 means you'll have a great phone.
  18. #18  
    From Wikipedia:
    OMAP3630 - 720 MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)
    OMAP3640 - 1 GHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)

    It does look like Palm may be overclocking the Pre2. I suppose they figured if most of us can overclock the OMAP3430 (600MHz) to 1GHz, then they could overclock the OMAP3630 (720 MHz) to atleast 1GHz.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    From Wikipedia:
    OMAP MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)
    OMAP3640 - 1 GHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)

    It does look like Palm may be overclocking the Pre2. I suppose they figured if most of us can overclock the OMAP3430 (600MHz) to 1GHz, then they could overclock the OMAP MHz) to atleast 1GHz.
    refer to rod's post above. Wikipedia is incorrect wrt what is in the pre2.
  20. #20  
    by the way pre has 3630 processor while droid-2 has 3640 natively running higher. Hence the idea that better processors are not available on market is not true.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
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