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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    I though the best gpu on the market atm is the PowerVR 540 which is not found in the omap 3630 but the Hummingbird.

    Your claims of nothing faster in the world should be corrected to nothing faster available to PALM!!!

    Your acting as if the competition is sitting around waiting for HP/Palm to play catch up.. Motorola CEO already made claims of a 2ghz Droid by years end.

    Samsung already announced its dual core cpu which will be coming to select customer by years end and mass produced first half of 2011

    LG also is claiming dual core phones by years end using the Terga 2 from Nvidia.

    The problem is HP is releasing this little River Stone in raging river rapids...
    Maybe they can bounce around on the bottom while they play catch up to the big boys making the waves on top.
    Except that those are all *Vaporware* as the OP posted there IS NO better chip. OMAP 4400's aren't available, QC's 9900's aren't available, nVidia's Tegra2's aren't available.

    All 10 (4 week old) WinPhone7 devices released with...1Ghz, 512mb, & 16gb but I guess those aren't high end devices either...
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    All the Pre 2 detractors will try out a Pre 2, and find out the only thing they had against it is that it's not an Evo or an iPhone. HP didn't buy Palm for the hardware, but for the software. HP is releasing a phone with a 1GHz processor and a nice screen. That put together with webOS 2.0 means you'll have a great phone.
    It may say WebOS 2.0, but until I see way, way, waaaay overdue features like landscape email, a photo gallery that displays pictures at the proper resolution instantly, and all native apps actually having finished, contextual menus (Why is there STILL a cut/copy/paste in apps with no text entry whatsoever?)....I will still see it as WebOS 0.x.

    The apps still have some way to go as well.

    It's good news that WebOS 2.0 may finally get the responsiveness, smoothness, and fluency of an iPhone 4 or Samsung Galaxy S. But with the screen lacking and so many other areas for them catch up in, it's just one step in a very long walk they need to make. Processor specs aint gonna cut it. The iPhone 4 is actually underclocked from 1ghz and it smokes almost every other handset our right now in terms of speed. Let's not forget that the vast majority of handsets running WebOS 2.0 (for some time) will be clocked at 500mhz.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Except that those are all *Vaporware* as the OP posted there IS NO better chip. OMAP 4400's aren't available, QC's 9900's aren't available, nVidia's Tegra2's aren't available.

    All 10 (4 week old) WinPhone7 devices released with...1Ghz, 512mb, & 16gb but I guess those aren't high end devices either...
    Again, the Windows Phone 7 devices are way more fluent and responsive than WebOS. In fairness, however, it seems that WP7 has some definite issues with loading times and apps resuming after a screen lock. So what it boils down to - as always - is software optimization.
  4. #24  
    And I can't imagine some Verizon clerk reciting all of CPU detail to some average Joe trying to pursue him to buy Pre2. Phone should speak for itself, and compared to other 1GHz smart phones, it speaks nothing to customer. I'm certain that Pre2 has one of most powerful CPUs today with enough memory for stacks, but it don't impress.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Again, the Windows Phone 7 devices are way more fluent and responsive than WebOS. In fairness, however, it seems that WP7 has some definite issues with loading times and apps resuming after a screen lock. So what it boils down to - as always - is software optimization.

    This is nonsense.

    There is nothing more "fluent" or "responsive" about the WP7 phones than the Pre2.

    And now your complaint about webOS is the context menu? Seriously, you're scratching the bottom of the barrel, man. That will be a negative point for webOS in comparison to WP7 when WP7 even has copy and paste.
    Last edited by idontwan2know; 10/30/2010 at 05:29 PM.
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Except that those are all *Vaporware* as the OP posted there IS NO better chip. OMAP 4400's aren't available, QC's 9900's aren't available, nVidia's Tegra2's aren't available.

    All 10 (4 week old) WinPhone7 devices released with...1Ghz, 512mb, & 16gb but I guess those aren't high end devices either...

    No better chip palm could buy get it right... Vaporware doesn't apply here imo company press releases don't count has rumors. Because if so then 90% of the tech on the planet is vaporware since it is always announced before hand with no product yet available.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by millertime View Post
    Nothing faster exists IN THE WORLD.
    What is with these forums and ridiculous comments as such to support whatever it is you want to be reality?

    That almost suggests that this is it. The last processor.

    The processor has existed a while now.


    I promise you there is better out there, just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    New processors and new technology come out constantly.

    The problem with the Pre 2 isn't the processor but still... ridiculous claim.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    What is with these forums and ridiculous comments as such to support whatever it is you want to be reality?

    That almost suggests that this is it. The last processor.

    The processor has existed a while now.


    I promise you there is better out there, just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    New processors and new technology come out constantly.

    The problem with the Pre 2 isn't the processor but still... ridiculous claim.
    I believe he meant currently in a production phone that is on sale right now. That makes it quite a lot less ridiculous.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I believe he meant currently in a production phone that is on sale right now. That makes it quite a lot less ridiculous.
    Well that changes it but the response to that is: Wait a few months.

    And releasing a phone that will be obsolete in a few months, that's trying to play catch up with the same technology 6 months later, is exactly the issue people and reviewers have with the Pre 2.

    Well that and releasing the same form factor with a failed design.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    by the way pre has 3630 processor while droid-2 has 3640 natively running higher. Hence the idea that better processors are not available on market is not true.
    According to Motorola, the Droid 2 is using a 3620, NOT the 3640.

    Which means the Pre is using a newer and (possibly) better processor than the Droid 2.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Well that changes it but the response to that is: Wait a few months.

    And releasing a phone that will be obsolete in a few months, that's trying to play catch up with the same technology 6 months later, is exactly the issue people and reviewers have with the Pre 2.

    Again, this only makes sense if you think the Pre2 is supposed to compete with premium devices. But it's not.

    At $99, the Pre's internal specs will be competitive far beyond "a few months".
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It may say WebOS 2.0, but until I see way, way, waaaay overdue features like landscape email, a photo gallery that displays pictures at the proper resolution instantly, and all native apps actually having finished, contextual menus (Why is there STILL a cut/copy/paste in apps with no text entry whatsoever?)....I will still see it as WebOS 0.x.

    The apps still have some way to go as well.

    It's good news that WebOS 2.0 may finally get the responsiveness, smoothness, and fluency of an iPhone 4 or Samsung Galaxy S. But with the screen lacking and so many other areas for them catch up in, it's just one step in a very long walk they need to make. Processor specs aint gonna cut it. The iPhone 4 is actually underclocked from 1ghz and it smokes almost every other handset our right now in terms of speed. Let's not forget that the vast majority of handsets running WebOS 2.0 (for some time) will be clocked at 500mhz.

    I hear what you're saying about iPhone 4/iOS and it's smoothness. Let's face it, having a pleasant UI experience is obviously really important to people. However, I think it's worth noting that the Galaxy S doesn't fall into this category by a long shot. Every iteration of that phone series that I've tried has been choppy and laggy (like pretty much every other Android phone on the market). They may open applications quickly, but the UI experience is still pretty poor IMHO.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if they Pre 2 and webOS 2.0 bring iOS level smoothness to the UI experience that's a pretty big deal. This would put it in rare company for sure. One interesting thing to find out is if this smoothness will mostly come from GPU acceleration of the UI in 2.0 (which I still haven't seen confirmed), or just having a better processor. From some of the videos I've seen of the Pre 2 in action I'm inclined to believe its the former. If this is the case then Pre minus and Plus owners may be in for a treat when 2.0 lands.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Again, this only makes sense if you think the Pre2 is supposed to compete with premium devices. But it's not.

    At $99, the Pre's internal specs will be competitive far beyond "a few months".
    It may not be competing but it should be.

    And that's the point.
  14.    #34  
    When I said in the world, I was saying that the SoC in the Pre2 is the best, or equal to the best, that the world smartphone semiconductor manufacturers have available today for shipment into phones. Now, will it be "dated" in a matter of months? Yes. Such is the advances in smartphone technology. The first phone to receive the 3630 (and let's just call it the TI 36** series) was the Droid X in January. Palm was 4 months late with the Ti chipset update. Ti has stated that smartphones will be available from their customers with the OMAP 4 SoC in the first half of 2011. Therefore, even if Palm had released the phone when motorola did, it would be a matter of months before it is eclipsed by a new SoC.
    One poster pointed out that the GPU is not the fastest available today - the SGX540 - but is rather the SGX535. That is correct. I'm not sure, though, that any SoC manufacture other than Samsung (which uses it on their own phones) is using the SGX 540. Ti is going to the SGX540 for its OMAP4, so Palm/HP will have it next time (if they stick with Ti). Palm couldn't tell Ti, please add the 540 to the SoC. As long as Palm is matching the iPhone4 and the iPad in the GPU department (where most games are being ported from), then I think it is more than adequate. It is certainly much faster than the Snapdragon SoC as others have said.
    Finally, as to the phone not "impressing", I'm not disagreeing with this point. It doesn't impress enough because it doesn't show an external difference. My point was merely that on the inside, Palm put the fastest internal hardware available inside. I'm not saying anything about the screen size (except I think it should have been bigger, I was shocked they released the same size, but I assume that bigger is coming). As to software, I'll have to see WebOS in action. Apple iOS was much faster on the same hardware that Palm had, so we will have to see if Palm has made the software faster.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by millertime View Post
    When I said in the world, I was saying that the SoC in the Pre2 is the best, or equal to the best, that the world smartphone semiconductor manufacturers have available today for shipment into phones. Now, will it be "dated" in a matter of months? Yes. Such is the advances in smartphone technology. The first phone to receive the 3630 (and let's just call it the TI 36** series) was the Droid X in January. Palm was 4 months late with the Ti chipset update. Ti has stated that smartphones will be available from their customers with the OMAP 4 SoC in the first half of 2011. Therefore, even if Palm had released the phone when motorola did, it would be a matter of months before it is eclipsed by a new SoC.
    One poster pointed out that the GPU is not the fastest available today - the SGX540 - but is rather the SGX535. That is correct. I'm not sure, though, that any SoC manufacture other than Samsung (which uses it on their own phones) is using the SGX 540. Ti is going to the SGX540 for its OMAP4, so Palm/HP will have it next time (if they stick with Ti). Palm couldn't tell Ti, please add the 540 to the SoC. As long as Palm is matching the iPhone4 and the iPad in the GPU department (where most games are being ported from), then I think it is more than adequate. It is certainly much faster than the Snapdragon SoC as others have said.
    Finally, as to the phone not "impressing", I'm not disagreeing with this point. It doesn't impress enough because it doesn't show an external difference. My point was merely that on the inside, Palm put the fastest internal hardware available inside. I'm not saying anything about the screen size (except I think it should have been bigger, I was shocked they released the same size, but I assume that bigger is coming). As to software, I'll have to see WebOS in action. Apple iOS was much faster on the same hardware that Palm had, so we will have to see if Palm has made the software faster.
    Fair enough.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    This is nonsense.

    There is nothing more "fluent" or "responsive" about the WP7 phones than the Pre2.
    Well, to be fair I've only seen WP7 and WebOS 1.4.5 on a 1ghx Pre in the flesh. I've only seen 2.0 in videos as have you. But I've seen no video that was as responsive as the beta build of WP7 I briefly held. Also, every review of WP7 from Engadget on down says that it is second in responsiveness and speed only to iPhone, and that's to be expected with its non-interpreted code being fully hardware-accelerated across the OS.

    And now your complaint about webOS is the context menu? Seriously, you're scratching the bottom of the barrel, man. That will be a negative point for webOS in comparison to WP7 when WP7 even has copy and paste.
    It's a sign of unproessionalism. Just to show you that I call it like I see them, I now own a Samsung Epic 4G. Incredible, incredible device, but in a blatant sign of unprofessionalism, it has Samsung-written prompts that use broken English to tell you things occasionally. This has been pointed in a few reviews. I consider that a black mark on this handset. Multinational companbies putting highend electronic devices should be able to finish context-free boilerplate menus and prompts. This is the equivalent of a publiushing house putting out a book with the "Ipsum Lorum...." boilerplate text on the last page...and not correcting it 18 months after it first goes out. It's very amateur-ish and offputting. Just like Palm launching the Pre 2 with a page thaqt actually sent people to the Pre Plus page, and not correcting it for several days.

    I work in online for a huge retailer with way more pages to QA than Palm's site, and we only have 1-2 people doing it. Despite that, someone would be gettingt chewed out royally if we left such an unprofessional error up on the site for such a prominent product for that long. It may seem petty to you, but this stuff matters.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by alan7467 View Post
    I hear what you're saying about iPhone 4/iOS and it's smoothness. Let's face it, having a pleasant UI experience is obviously really important to people. However, I think it's worth noting that the Galaxy S doesn't fall into this category by a long shot. Every iteration of that phone series that I've tried has been choppy and laggy (like pretty much every other Android phone on the market). They may open applications quickly, but the UI experience is still pretty poor IMHO.
    To each their own, I guiess, but I tried the Epic 4G side-by-side with an EVO (after the 30 fps fix, mind you), and it was way, way smoother. Google Navigation was smoother. Games were smoother. Web page scrolling is smoother. The 3D gallery on it is a thing of pure beauty. I may see a frame rate drop here and there in a 3D menu transition or a game here and there, but it really is at the top of the class of Android devices for smoothness.

    But that's just my opinion.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if they Pre 2 and webOS 2.0 bring iOS level smoothness to the UI experience that's a pretty big deal. This would put it in rare company for sure. One interesting thing to find out is if this smoothness will mostly come from GPU acceleration of the UI in 2.0 (which I still haven't seen confirmed), or just having a better processor. From some of the videos I've seen of the Pre 2 in action I'm inclined to believe its the former. If this is the case then Pre minus and Plus owners may be in for a treat when 2.0 lands.
    We'll see. No one has seen 2.0 running at 500mhz on the previous processor. That's how the vast majority of WebOS users run theirs.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Well, to be fair I've only seen WP7 and WebOS 1.4.5 on a 1ghx Pre in the flesh. I've only seen 2.0 in videos as have you. But I've seen no video that was as responsive as the beta build of WP7 I briefly held. Also, every review of WP7 from Engadget on down says that it is second in responsiveness and speed only to iPhone, and that's to be expected with its non-interpreted code being fully hardware-accelerated across the OS.
    Oh the irony...

    Quote Originally Posted by Engadet
    On the Pre 2, the OS was incredibly fast. We're talking seriously impressive performance, which just seems to prove that a big part of what webOS is missing is great, high performance hardware. Moving from app to app was extremely light and quick, and opening applications was far faster than on any previous Palm handset or OS version.
    More irony...

    Quote Originally Posted by Engadget
    Despite some issues, webOS 2.0 is probably neck and neck with iOS4 when it comes to polish and ease of use, and that's a pretty huge thing for Palm. This isn't just a good OS, it's a great OS, and the updates in this version have made it even better.
    And if you read the Engadget Meetup thread, people there used a stock VZ Pre+ with 2.0 and reported it felt as quick as their OC Pre+'s
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Oh the irony...



    More irony...



    And if you read the Engadget Meetup thread, people there used a stock VZ Pre+ with 2.0 and reported it felt as quick as their OC Pre+'s
    You must've learned the definition of irony from Alanis Morissette.

    The first Engadget quote says that it's faster than any version of WebOS. There's no comparison to any competing devices. The second compares it to iPhone in ease-of-use and polish - NOT SPEED - which you could really say about 1.4.5 too.

    Anyway, secondhand accounts mean nothing, especially when using the device for a brief period of time. WebOS - like most mobile OSes - is snappier after a fresh OS install and fresh boot, but bogs down over time. Let's see what it's like when we can all try it for an extended period of time on non-Pre 2 hardware. Who knows when that'll be....
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    ............
    The OMAP3630-100 is the obvious choice (and is by far the most likely in my opinion), but until I see the output from /proc/cpuinfo published somewhere, it's still unconfirmed conjecture.

    -- Rod
    Maybe Dieter would check it out if you gave him the details of how to do it?
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