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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxion View Post
    Its probably because people that own iPhones own one because everyone else does... chances are they dont sit on tech sites lurking for polls to vote in. Sheeple in other words.

    Same could be said with Droid now. They own one cause they have been told "its the best phone we carry" by several providers.

    WebOS has more of a cult following.....and most of em live on this site... including me.

    Oh ya and voted!
    The people who own the other devices voted where it counts, in sales. No need to scour the internet looking for hope that someone somewhere has something nice to say, in this case about webos. Everywhere you turn it's iphone or android. This is the vote that matters, paper votes don't count.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 10/26/2010 at 07:53 PM. Reason: quote deleted because the original quote deleted
  2. #22  
    Is there a reason you all feel the need to protest against webOS and Pre fans on a forum specifically created to cater to them (us, really)? The opinions of the majority of the users on this forum should be obvious from miles away, so to make-up useless and petty names like "Prelemming" simply because we exhibit faith in HP/Palm seems like an extraordinary waste of time.

    If I remember correctly, there is another forum within P|C specifically to discuss other platforms. There are even entirely different communities within this network that were made specifically to discuss Android and, even though most of you hate these too, iOS, BlackBerry and Symbian/Maemo/MeeGo. It would be to the benefit of the entirety of PreCentral if you'd treat them to your useless diatribes.
  3. #23  
    What was the original topic again? Oh yes, something about a ZDNet article. Carry on!
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  4. #24  
    up to 36% and still in first!


    My Themes:CLICK HERE
  5. #25  
    i remember an article or poll about who was the best phone. the palm pre was voted the best. i think in the finals, it was the pre vs the hd or something like that.

    even though the pre won by votes againts all the other phones, it didnt really matter because in the end, the pre still didnt sell well.

    yeah we can vote all we want but the bottom line is in the sales figures.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    A phone that's not yet available running an OS that's not yet available that is acknowledged as a phone whose predecessor had "keyboard and hardware issues" ranks as the 8th best phone (not yet) available in the market today. Truly an impressive phone.
    I understand and really side with what you're saying.

    but I have to rank this new device in the top 10 because I think the webOS operating system may just be the best available today.
    You cannot rate an upcoming phone based upon your opinion of the OS.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    You cannot rate an upcoming phone based upon your opinion of the OS.
    And why not, especially if the phone is a hardware upgrade to an original model, thus providing increased performance?

    And it isn't "upcoming" as many here say it is. It is on sale now, in France, from SFR and has been since last friday. He wrote this article 2 days ago.

    Sheesh.

    You are missingt the point of the article and my original post: its BECAUSE the author feels WebOS is the best smartphone OS out there that he is saying it has to be one of the top 10 smartphones of 2010..

    That's an incredibly signficant statement of his opinion of the OS compared to all of the others out there - and he is a tech critic by his profession.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    And why not, especially if the phone is a hardware upgrade to an original model, thus providing increased performance?
    Because hardware is not software and vice versa. I like Windows 7. Think it's great even. Doesn't mean I think every PC with Windows 7 on it is great. In fact, a lot of them suck.

    You are missingt the point of the article and my original post: its BECAUSE the author feels WebOS is the best smartphone OS out there that he is saying it has to be one of the top 10 smartphones of 2010..

    That's an incredibly signficant statement of his opinion of the OS compared to all of the others out there - and he is a tech critic by his profession.
    But he ranks the Dell Venue Pro higher, which features hardware AND software he's never really used! (He says he "held" the Venue Pro in his hand and "may end up with it". That's the basis for his ranking. ) That's also pretty significant in that it tells us that we cannot take a word this "critic" says seriously. What's his favorite game...Duke Nukem Forever? This guy lives in the future, apparently.
  9. #29  
    This thread is embarrassing. This is a great site most of the time, but when posts get banned for (mild) insults to the worst of the Palm community, it makes me wonder, especially when blatant, ad hominem attacks are freely made against users of other tech products seemed to be allowed and encouraged. At least be even handed and remove the "sheeple" and "fandroids" along with the "prelemmings".

    Second, how beat down is this community that you will latch on to "any" favorable mention you can get? The linked article is an embarrassment to ZD, and its readers. Raking a product that the writer has never seen or tested simply because he wants it to be great should be fireable. For this once proud community to get all excited by such a ranking indicates how low its standards have sank.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This thread is embarrassing. This is a great site most of the time, but when posts get banned for (mild) insults to the worst of the Palm community, it makes me wonder, especially when blatant, ad hominem attacks are freely made against users of other tech products seemed to be allowed and encouraged. At least be even handed and remove the "sheeple" and "fandroids" along with the "prelemmings".

    Second, how beat down is this community that you will latch on to "any" favorable mention you can get? The linked article is an embarrassment to ZD, and its readers. Raking a product that the writer has never seen or tested simply because he wants it to be great should be fireable. For this once proud community to get all excited by such a ranking indicates how low its standards have sank.
    The thread isnt embarrassing, its those who take the opportunity to post outside of the realm of it, and imply incredibility and insult others that embarrass themselves.

    If you don't like this thread, don't contribute. Seriously. If you disagree with what ZDnet opines on, do so in a civil fashion - NOT with denegration and insults and sarcasm - THAT is embarrassing to us all, especially those of us who look to share and learn from one another.

    As for your second paragrapgh above, that's the kind of insulting comment that brings the worst out in people - you just insulted the whole community by implying that we are so desparate that we would "latch onto any favorable mention we can get", and then you make it worse by insulting the ZDnet writer and, finally, implying how "low our standards of sunk".

    Geez, you sure sit rather high on your horse, don't you?

    Hows about this: stay on topic, be civil, and remember, just because YOU don't like the article, or give it much credence, that doens't mean others won't.

    I posted the link, because I follow ZDnet and have for years. I have found many of thier authors to be incredibly insightful with good knowledge - this author, in particular, is very unbiased and knowledgable, so, it was a good reference for us here at PreCentral.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    I posted the link, because I follow ZDnet and have for years. I have found many of thier authors to be incredibly insightful with good knowledge - this author, in particular, is very unbiased and knowledgable, so, it was a good reference for us here at PreCentral.
    You're missing the point. Whatever the prior credentials of the author and publication, you cannot rank a product you have not used as "best" of anything. When Phonedog ranks its top 3 smartphones for each carrier, they rank released products that they have actually used. Even if there is an upcoming "superphone" that is largely based off a pre-existing OS and form factor, they will not rank it. Why? Because it is not only embarrassing, but unethical to "rank" a product you have not used.

    To endorse our ranking here is to endorse embarrassing and unethical behavior, and I would like to think we're above that. Maybe not.
  12. Traxion's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This thread is embarrassing. This is a great site most of the time, but when posts get banned for (mild) insults to the worst of the Palm community, it makes me wonder, especially when blatant, ad hominem attacks are freely made against users of other tech products seemed to be allowed and encouraged. At least be even handed and remove the "sheeple" and "fandroids" along with the "prelemmings".

    Second, how beat down is this community that you will latch on to "any" favorable mention you can get? The linked article is an embarrassment to ZD, and its readers. Raking a product that the writer has never seen or tested simply because he wants it to be great should be fireable. For this once proud community to get all excited by such a ranking indicates how low its standards have sank.
    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    When Phonedog ranks its top 3 smartphones for each carrier, they rank released products that they have actually used. Even if there is an upcoming "superphone" that is largely based off a pre-existing OS and form factor, they will not rank it. Why? Because it is not only embarrassing, but unethical to "rank" a product you have not used.
    This is the key, and very well said.

    cnet does a lot of ranking and reviews and is very careful to only rate products that are ready for retail, as do ALL reputable reviewers. It is a matter of professional ethics, nothing more.

    The reason is there are countless things that can change or go wrong between prerelease and release. There may be a conflict with how the phone is made and the way the carrier handles signal, (AT&T iPhone, anyone). The company that made the prototype may not be as good at making a million retail phones for you, introducing build-quality issues. Some component in the phone could diminish the call quality.

    There are other unknowns that have to be considered. Is the glass used in the screen high quality, or not very good? There is a difference. How does music sound when you listen through headphones? With a slightly different shape and back, how does it feel in the hand? What about that keyboard? Can you really judged the OS apart from the hardware? The original wOS was great if experienced in a vacuum. Put it on bad hardware, and you get TMC.

    My point is that there are reasons for rigorous testing of final release hardware as opposed to just looking at specs and winging it. This is not an attempt to bash the Pre, or anything else, other than ZDnet. I, like everyone else, am waiting for a real review and rating of an actual P2 aimed at the American market. The linked article isn't it.
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    I can't take seriously a column that ranks a piece of junk like the nokia n8 at number 7.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    And why not, especially if the phone is a hardware upgrade to an original model, thus providing increased performance?

    And it isn't "upcoming" as many here say it is. It is on sale now, in France, from SFR and has been since last friday. He wrote this article 2 days ago.

    Sheesh.

    You are missingt the point of the article and my original post: its BECAUSE the author feels WebOS is the best smartphone OS out there that he is saying it has to be one of the top 10 smartphones of 2010..

    That's an incredibly signficant statement of his opinion of the OS compared to all of the others out there - and he is a tech critic by his profession.
    I'm gonna completely agree with every post by Mikah912 in this thread.

    And follow his posts up with:

    It's funny how people don't care about bias when it favors them [or favors their own bias]
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 10/27/2010 at 11:00 AM. Reason: rewording
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I'm gonna completely agree with Mikah912's response to this post.

    And follow his post up with:

    It's funny how people don't care about bias when it favors them [or favors their own bias]
    I am not biased - don't even go there - you are making an assumption about me (and others, I dare say) that is quite generalized, and it can be taken offensively.

    The author of the article posted his reason for putting the Pre 2 into his list, based on his belief that WebOS is the best smartphone OS available today - THAT, may be biased, but, its based on his experience with the OS.

    You can certainly disagree with the article and his actions all you like, and I respect that, but, I think you should stop there - such generalizations speak way more about yourself than those who you are trying to judge.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    I am not biased - don't even go there - you are making an assumption about me (and others, I dare say) that is quite generalized, and it can be taken offensively.

    The author of the article posted his reason for putting the Pre 2 into his list, based on his belief that WebOS is the best smartphone OS available today - THAT, may be biased, but, its based on his experience with the OS.

    You can certainly disagree with the article and his actions all you like, and I respect that, but, I think you should stop there - such generalizations speak way more about yourself than those who you are trying to judge.

    I'm not gonna sit here and name off each specific person on here that is clearly bias-- although we all have bias to something.

    I don't even blame you for your OP. You point out exactly what he says and nothing more.

    I do have a problem with the reviewer and any person on here that is going to blindly accept the reviewers statements merely because it supports what they want. [And trust me, that's a lot of people--especially on here]



    The reviewer should probably lose his job, honestly. It is not his job to assert his opinion based upon previous experience with a different device. He is rating the top 10 smartphones here, not the OS that runs on them.
    He has never used a Pre2.
    Therefore to include it in this list is absurd.

    With the same logic this guy uses.. the claim could be made that the iPhone 5 is going to be a top 3 phone next year. Why not? I mean.. maybe he liked the iPhone 4 a lot, right?

    Sorry, doesn't work that way.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    I am not biased - don't even go there - you are making an assumption about me (and others, I dare say) that is quite generalized, and it can be taken offensively.

    The author of the article posted his reason for putting the Pre 2 into his list, based on his belief that WebOS is the best smartphone OS available today - THAT, may be biased, but, its based on his experience with the OS.
    And that would be relevant if he were ranking OSes. He is not thus this is not. it is unethical. PERIOD. There is no "Well, he gave his reason..." that explains this away. People who make up quotes for stories have a reason. It's unethical. People who don't disclose ties to the subject they are writing about do so for a reason. It is unethical. This is unethical. It shouldn't applauded. It shouldn't be condoned. Has nothing to do with WebOS or Palm or whatever his experience is with past handsets. If he had left the Pre 2 off the list but still included the Venue Pro and HD7, the same problem would apply.

    You can certainly disagree with the article and his actions all you like, and I respect that, but, I think you should stop there - such generalizations speak way more about yourself than those who you are trying to judge.

    While I disagree with the article (as should anyone who desires a legitimate list), I really disagree with you standing by your citation of such a blatantly dishonest and sketchy story in the face of obvious and overwhelming evidence that it is purposefully illegitimate.

    ZDNet is not even "opining" here. That implies that the author arrived at a subjective preference after evaluating all handsets fairly. He didn't. It's a clear insult to even editorial journalism.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    And that would be relevant if he were ranking OSes. He is not thus this is not. it is unethical. PERIOD. There is no "Well, he gave his reason..." that explains this away. People who make up quotes for stories have a reason. It's unethical. People who don't disclose ties to the subject they are writing about do so for a reason. It is unethical. This is unethical. It shouldn't applauded. It shouldn't be condoned. Has nothing to do with WebOS or Palm or whatever his experience is with past handsets. If he had left the Pre 2 off the list but still included the Venue Pro and HD7, the same problem would apply..
    There were other phones that werent released yet, or that were only recently released, as well, that he ranked. The difference between them and the Pre 2 is that the Pre 2 has very few real differencedsin design from the original Pre - it has OS of the next version of the same design, the body style is the same (vertical slider, material, keyboard), and everything else is an obvious IMPROVEMENT (processor, glass face, 5 mp camera, etc). He likely feels safe that the phone will be a good experience because its so similar, however, he did put in his reservation about the hardware past issues - that's full disclosure, as far as Im concerned.

    There is no ethical issue here. He fully discloses all, and gives his reasons. He is making no false claims, just his opinions. That's what he gets paid for.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    While I disagree with the article (as should anyone who desires a legitimate list), I really disagree with you standing by your citation of such a blatantly dishonest and sketchy story in the face of obvious and overwhelming evidence that it is purposefully illegitimate.

    ZDNet is not even "opining" here. That implies that the author arrived at a subjective preference after evaluating all handsets fairly. He didn't. It's a clear insult to even editorial journalism.
    Im not "standing by" anything, other than his right to do his job, and express his opinions, for all his readers to acess. I personally dont agree with some of his placements in this article, and I definitely don't agree with his G2 placement, but that isnt important - this wasn't a scientific testing study, it was an evaluation based on hardware and software credentials/specification, and where he knew "something felt good in the hand" personally, he threw that in.

    Your statement about "opining" is "off the wall", truly. His article is HIS opinion, and he gets paid for writing it - and I have read his past articles and have found many of them to be incredibly insightful - even if I disagreed.

    If you have issues with his writing, why post them here? Write him directly - thats what the comment section below is for.

    This post was just to show some positive press for the Pre 2, from a legitimate source - but, I should have known better - the resident cynics here always come out in force to squash anything even close to being positive about WebOS and thier devices, even if it is from an objective source.

    Geeez.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    There were other phones that werent released yet, or that were only recently released, as well, that he ranked. The difference between them and the Pre 2 is that the Pre 2 has very few real differencedsin design from the original Pre - it has OS of the next version of the same design, the body style is the same (vertical slider, material, keyboard), and everything else is an obvious IMPROVEMENT (processor, glass face, 5 mp camera, etc). He likely feels safe that the phone will be a good experience because its so similar, however, he did put in his reservation about the hardware past issues - that's full disclosure, as far as Im concerned.

    There is no ethical issue here. He fully discloses all, and gives his reasons. He is making no false claims, just his opinions. That's what he gets paid for.



    Im not "standing by" anything, other than his right to do his job, and express his opinions, for all his readers to acess. I personally dont agree with some of his placements in this article, and I definitely don't agree with his G2 placement, but that isnt important - this wasn't a scientific testing study, it was an evaluation based on hardware and software credentials/specification, and where he knew "something felt good in the hand" personally, he threw that in.

    Your statement about "opining" is "off the wall", truly. His article is HIS opinion, and he gets paid for writing it - and I have read his past articles and have found many of them to be incredibly insightful - even if I disagreed.

    If you have issues with his writing, why post them here? Write him directly - thats what the comment section below is for.

    This post was just to show some positive press for the Pre 2, from a legitimate source - but, I should have known better - the resident cynics here always come out in force to squash anything even close to being positive about WebOS and thier devices, even if it is from an objective source.

    Geeez.

    I think the point simply is that he shouldn't be rating a phone in the top ten for the year that he has never even touched. Doesn't matter what OS it's running nor does it matter what the specs are.

    The Pre one had a lot of hype too and we all know what happened with quality issues etc. No one can predict those sort of occurrences and therefore it's not appropriate to rate something of that nature in this way.



    One other thing, the "resident cynics" you speak of exist for a very good reason.

    They are well deserved for Palm/Webos/Hp.
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