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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    blackberry doesn't advertise every phone they release.
    nor does android.
    neither will hp or palm advertise aggressively for this device other than some more effective ads here and there...there will be no more mom ads.
    why? Because this is just the first of many new webOS phones that will likely be hitting the market over the nxt year.
    slab, pixi 2, pre 2, perhaps others.
    now we will have CHOICE.
    I will choose the pre 2 form factor, others will choose some other.
    the "flagship" devices for all phones except the iphone only remain a flagship for a few months.
    just accept the fact that whatever phone you pick, it will feel outdated after 6 months.

    Except the pre. My preplus, overclocked and patched, with a gradually increasing app catalog and soon to be released webOS 2.0, has actually gotten better since jan.

    how many people can say that about their other phones?

    like it or not, webOS is hear to stay.

    deal with it.
    No, Blackberry doesn't advertise EVERY phone they release, but I got sick of ads for the Blackberry Bold. I saw several of them a day. They also put out tons of commercials for the first Blackberry flip phone. The Droid had commericals on at every commercial break. I'm getting sick of all the commericals for the Samsung Galaxy. HTC's phones on T-Mobile have plenty of commercials as well. The MyTouch 3G had ads all over the place when it came out.

    So, HP/Palm wouldn't exactly be treading into unknown territory if they marketed this phone.
  2. Traxion's Avatar
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    #22  
    I dont think HP will push this phone much at all. If it doesnt have a 42" LED with optional projector, and oh ya... a "kickstand", 90% of the market will just write it off. And honestly there is not enough time in a TV commercial to show off WebOS and how B.A. it is. You really have to get the phone in the users hands for that to happen, and in order to do that... you need to have a stellar device. Is the Pre2 stellar? No... I mean its good, but not great. It wont appeal to a large portion of the market its intended for. I predict they will push out the device and just let it ride and make a big push into the market in January.

    I dont think HP wants this phone to be the markets first impression of them.... Cause we all know about bad first impressions.
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    HP has a dog in the show now. I don't think they'd go so far as to release this new device and then not market it all. The problem with most Pre users is that they think only within the confines of this forum. Yes, the Pre 2 isn't a huge leap from the Pre Plus for you and me. However, Pre and WebOS are largely unknown entities to most Americans. An effective and aggressive marketing campaign could do a lot to change that, plus it would sow seeds for whatever is coming out next spring.
    Bro, you're making too much sense for this forum. Every point you've made is absolutely correct. But no one here wants to hear that. They're too busy wanting 4.3in screens instead of trying to figure out if HP is going to come with a $250 million marketing budget so that a 4in screen device can succeed.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  4. #24  
    I think a lot will depend on the price point. This phone likely has two key functions. First, it is a developer spec phone, giving developers the minimum specs they need to develop apps which take advantage of webOS 2.0's feature set. Secondly, it's a horse in the holiday season race. I doubt they're thinking they'll dominate, but it is an opportunity to pick up new customers. So, I doubt we'll see a sustained push, but I would be surprised to not see some kind of holiday add blitz. I wouldn't be at all sad if the brought back the Klaus add series.

    Gargoyle
  5. #25  
    there will not be alot of advertising for the pre2 at all. i love how everybody here is so sure we will get a BIG announcement of a super phone coming in 2011. at this point it is anybodies guess.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by fixxxer1022 View Post
    there will not be alot of advertising for the pre2 at all. i love how everybody here is so sure we will get a BIG announcement of a super phone coming in 2011. at this point it is anybodies guess.
    I would err on the side that there will be an announcement. You had an HP VP say last week that there will be new webOS phones released in early 2011. HP Palm has registered for CES 2011. I'll would place money on it that new webOS phones are announced at CES.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  7. #27  
    I don't see much if any advertising happening. VZ is releasing the Droid Pro, Droid 2 Global, and Droid Citrus on the same day. Those phones are likely to sell much more than the Pre 2 is so I can see where the advertising dollars are likely to go.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    I don't see much if any advertising happening. VZ is releasing the Droid Pro, Droid 2 Global, and Droid Citrus on the same day. Those phones are likely to sell much more than the Pre 2 is so I can see where the advertising dollars are likely to go.
    That's a great point. Releasing the Pre 2 on the same day as all those phones (don't forget the Galaxy Tab too) is basically sending it out to die.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    That's a great point. Releasing the Pre 2 on the same day as all those phones (don't forget the Galaxy Tab too) is basically sending it out to die.
    yeah right now is the year of android. i really hope hp/palm have something BIG up their sleeves because i do not see this going well.
  10. #30  
    Marketing? I think that anyone who would be interested in the Pre 2 already knows about it.
    Sharp YO-370 -> HP 200LX -> Palm m125 -> Palm Treo 680 -> Pre 2

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -Albert Einstein
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    HP has a dog in the show now. I don't think they'd go so far as to release this new device and then not market it all. The problem with most Pre users is that they think only within the confines of this forum. Yes, the Pre 2 isn't a huge leap from the Pre Plus for you and me. However, Pre and WebOS are largely unknown entities to most Americans. An effective and aggressive marketing campaign could do a lot to change that, plus it would sow seeds for whatever is coming out next spring.
    The majority of Pre users don't know of or participate in this forum...I don't think we're going to see much in marketing until we get closer to CES. Just MHO.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


  12. Cringer's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    Of course. However, most places wouldn't simply report information they read on another website. Not saying it doesn't happen...it does. But can ALL of those websites possibly be doing that? And that's just the ones I pulled up immediately on Google. Many more saying the same thing.
    Looking at that list of websites, yes I can believe they all took the info from each other/the same source and ran with it. It happens all the time with tech/gadgets.
  13. #33  
    90% of the market will ignore it? Perhaps, probably even. But that's not a problem. When your market share is 5% then 10% looks pretty nice.

    Will the Pre 2 have a meteoric rise to 30% market share? Of course not.
    It's a fixed Pre. It's even called Pre 2 just to make it more obvious.

    Pre(-) and Pre Plus will be End Of Lifed and the Pre 2 will be the new base level - followed by new form factors and variants next year.

    Most people out there are not geeks. They will not use fron facing cameras and they will never make use of all of 512 MB RAM. They won't be able to notice any difference between the pictures of a 3 MP or 5 MP camera.

    Many people just want an easy to use smartphone, that looks nice, does its job and doesn't annoy them. The Pre 2 with webos 2 will fill that need very well for many people.

    If it raises Palms market share by 1 or 2 % it will be a success that later models can build on.

    HP/Palm will market the Pre 2. It makes no sense to wait for later models next year to start marketing because the obvious answer is to do *both*.

    HP rebranded Palm webos to HP webos because they want to use that on a variety of devices like printers, tablets and who knows what peripherals that have little to no connection to Palms core business.

    OTOH Palm is an old established, recognized name in the handheld and smartphone business - so it makes sense to continue to market the handsets as Palm.

    HP is a very large tech company that had hardly any presence in the exploding smartphone market. Even the low market share of Palm was bigger. So from HP standpoint they already are on an upward trend here. It'll cost to build on that and the competition is tough, but as Apple and Android showed us before it's doable. Android was badly reviewed and written off by many reviewers when it first appeared.
    And before that Apple entered a market that was utterly dominated by Nokia.

    Most people don't have smartphones yet. This is a fast growing market with plenty of opportunities to grow. Palm (unlike Apple and Google) lacked the financial backbone to really get into this fight. That's why the deal with HP made sense for both sides.

    Most of the wish list points in threads like these will come real anyway.
    I bet future smartphones will have 1 GB - not because it's needed but just because it looks good on feature lists and RAM is getting cheaper.
    They will get front facing cameras - not because a majority is actually using it but because it will get cheap enough and checks a box on feature comparison list.

    We'll probably all get 10 MP cameras in smartphones - even though nobody will get any noticable improvements out of that.

    Meanwhile there's plenty of room for a variety of models because there is more than just one single standard customer. Sure - some people love big screens because they watch movies on their phones or surf a lot and the added weight and size doesn't bother them too much.

    Others will enjoy a more compact phone that easily glides into any pocket, costs less, they prefer to watch videos on their TV and a 3.5" or less screen is enough for their surfing habits.

    The Palm Pre 2 is not a fail device. It's a fixed Pre and assuming a decent keyboard click and no oreo it will be good at that. Is it enough to conquer the market - of course not. That will take a number of different models that surely are in the pipeline - some of which we'll get to see at CES time.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  14.    #34  
    @ Tholap...excellent points! Can't argue with any of that.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    I don't see much if any advertising happening. VZ is releasing the Droid Pro, Droid 2 Global, and Droid Citrus on the same day. Those phones are likely to sell much more than the Pre 2 is so I can see where the advertising dollars are likely to go.
    The Droid Pro and Citrus are not competitors for the Pre 2. Pro is very business oriented. Global is for jet-setting world travelers, so it's just a varation on the Droid 2. MOST people aren't looking to be able to call over 200 countries, so this doesn't really compete with the Pre 2 either. Citrus is a clear entry level device, so it might be the closest to the Pre 2, but I think the Pre 2 specs are better...more RAM, better camera, slightly larger display, faster processor.

    So, the Pre 2 really sits in a category distinct from each of those phones.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    90% of the market will ignore it? Perhaps, probably even. But that's not a problem. When your market share is 5% then 10% looks pretty nice.

    Will the Pre 2 have a meteoric rise to 30% market share? Of course not.
    It's a fixed Pre. It's even called Pre 2 just to make it more obvious.

    Pre(-) and Pre Plus will be End Of Lifed and the Pre 2 will be the new base level - followed by new form factors and variants next year.

    Most people out there are not geeks. They will not use fron facing cameras and they will never make use of all of 512 MB RAM. They won't be able to notice any difference between the pictures of a 3 MP or 5 MP camera.

    Many people just want an easy to use smartphone, that looks nice, does its job and doesn't annoy them. The Pre 2 with webos 2 will fill that need very well for many people.

    If it raises Palms market share by 1 or 2 % it will be a success that later models can build on.

    HP/Palm will market the Pre 2. It makes no sense to wait for later models next year to start marketing because the obvious answer is to do *both*.

    HP rebranded Palm webos to HP webos because they want to use that on a variety of devices like printers, tablets and who knows what peripherals that have little to no connection to Palms core business.

    OTOH Palm is an old established, recognized name in the handheld and smartphone business - so it makes sense to continue to market the handsets as Palm.

    HP is a very large tech company that had hardly any presence in the exploding smartphone market. Even the low market share of Palm was bigger. So from HP standpoint they already are on an upward trend here. It'll cost to build on that and the competition is tough, but as Apple and Android showed us before it's doable. Android was badly reviewed and written off by many reviewers when it first appeared.
    And before that Apple entered a market that was utterly dominated by Nokia.

    Most people don't have smartphones yet. This is a fast growing market with plenty of opportunities to grow. Palm (unlike Apple and Google) lacked the financial backbone to really get into this fight. That's why the deal with HP made sense for both sides.

    Most of the wish list points in threads like these will come real anyway.
    I bet future smartphones will have 1 GB - not because it's needed but just because it looks good on feature lists and RAM is getting cheaper.
    They will get front facing cameras - not because a majority is actually using it but because it will get cheap enough and checks a box on feature comparison list.

    We'll probably all get 10 MP cameras in smartphones - even though nobody will get any noticable improvements out of that.

    Meanwhile there's plenty of room for a variety of models because there is more than just one single standard customer. Sure - some people love big screens because they watch movies on their phones or surf a lot and the added weight and size doesn't bother them too much.

    Others will enjoy a more compact phone that easily glides into any pocket, costs less, they prefer to watch videos on their TV and a 3.5" or less screen is enough for their surfing habits.

    The Palm Pre 2 is not a fail device. It's a fixed Pre and assuming a decent keyboard click and no oreo it will be good at that. Is it enough to conquer the market - of course not. That will take a number of different models that surely are in the pipeline - some of which we'll get to see at CES time.
    I don't agree with you.

    I'm going to first address your comments on market share then your ridiculous comments on this idea which almost seems to suggest: "we don't need smartphone technology to improve anymore"

    http://www.precentral.net/palm-us-ma...e-market-grows

    The Palm Pre was released June 6, 2009 on Sprint.
    Between June and Sept of 09 the ONLY thing that happened is Palm DID NOT continue to lose market share. They didn't gain, they just didn't lose for the first time since July 07 to Oct 07.
    Palm's marketshare is 7%

    Now click this link:
    comScore Reports January 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

    Palm Pre Plus was released January 25, 2010 on Verizon. Palms marketshare was 5.7%

    A month after the Palm Pre Plus was released:
    comScore Reports February 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc
    Palm lost another .3% of market share. 5.4%


    Android’s US market share surges, Apple slip, Palm steadies | wirefresh
    April 2010 its at 4.9% which is another .5% loss.

    comScore Reports August 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

    August it's dropped to 4.6%

    Palm released the Pre Plus on ATT on May 16, 2010. Palm only lost .01% between May and April.


    My point?
    Not one release, including the release of the original Pre, increased market share.

    Palm had everyone's attention with the Pre and it still didn't gain market share. Albeit, they stopped losing FOR A LITTLE WHILE but that is all.

    With Android growing out of control having viable options on all four major carriers, the Pre 2 with a spec update that [once it's released] will already be old news as these specs have been available for over half a year...you're trying to suggest that the Pre 2 will grow market share by 25 to 45%? [1 to 2 points]!?!?!?!?!?!

    Palm has already lost almost 40% of their market share since releasing the Original Pre. [7% to 4.6%]
    That means that Palm faithful experienced the Pre, saw how crappy the hardware was, and bailed out...
    The smartphone community is LAUGHING at the new Pre 2. Read the reviews, read the comments from people that go to the sites.

    HPalm will be lucky if they have 4% market share by CES 2011.




    Now onto your comments about technology not needing to improve, bull.

    You're right, only about 5% of smartphone users actually use the video chat option but then again there's only 3 phones that have the option. It will grow and eventually become much, much, much more popular.
    This idea that smartphones will have 1gb of ram "not because its needed but because it looks nice" is interesting too.
    Two years ago people couldn't imagine needing to have 512mb of ram, 1ghz processors and 4" beautiful screens and here we are with it as the industry standard.

    As phones progress, the software will become more demanding and thus more demand on the hardware. Just like with computers.

    Silly to suggest otherwise.

    Camera comment now.
    Why wouldn't I want a 10 mp and up camera on my phone?
    The Evo is my camera now. I can take some amazing pictures with that thing.
    So for $150 I have a great phone and a very solid camera. I don't have to buy one separately.
    Zooming and such needs to be improved and other improvements are always welcome.
    Now yes, at some point the amount of MP becomes unnecessary, but then other improvements to the camera will be made.


    Now, you are right, most users want a simple phone that does what they want without a lot of technical know how.
    Well, Android 3.0 is supposed to make the UI much more simple. [I already think it's simple enough and so do most people I know but whatever]
    After that happens, android is going to absolutely own the freakin' market.

    You have to look at trends man.
    Only a few years ago the "average" user had a flip phone with a 1MP camera [if you're lucky] and only the basic abilities.
    As little as next year, via market predictions, the "average" user is going to have a smartphone which...will likely have AT LEAST Pre 2 specs IF NOT better.
    The "average" user didn't have their lives on their phone. Soon they will..and beyond..


    One thing I notice on these particular forums is that you guys tend to dismiss new technology way too easily.
    People on here saying that 4g is unnecessary. BS on that.
    That'll be the standard in a year or less.
    3g will become the same as 2g is to 3g now.
    As phones progress in hardware the internet will have to get faster. People will want to be able to have video chat over their mobile networks with no lag. People will want to click their ESPN apps or what ever app and immediately get whatever information they can without any internet related delays.
    That will require 4g and beyond.

    The Palm Pre 2 is a fail device.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 10/21/2010 at 08:52 AM.
  17. Traxion's Avatar
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    #37  
    Remember also that this is only the smartphone market share.

    Today’s Smartphone Market Share Report | Stream Media

    I am not saying this device is a fail device... I'm just staying on topic.

    1) This device will bring very little if any users to WebOS
    2) HP is not interested in Palm Phones.... Only in the success of WebOS. Remember this was a phone that was Palm developed and HP only purchased Palm for WebOS. You won't see much marketing until HP actually puts out an in house phone.
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxion View Post
    Remember also that this is only the smartphone market share.

    Today’s Smartphone Market Share Report | Stream Media

    I am not saying this device is a fail device... I'm just staying on topic.

    1) This device will bring very little if any users to WebOS
    2) HP is not interested in Palm Phones.... Only in the success of WebOS. Remember this was a phone that was Palm developed and HP only purchased Palm for WebOS. You won't see much marketing until HP actually puts out an in house phone.
    I don't see percentage points below full numbers on there so I'll assume that it's still 4.6% until shown otherwise.

    If it's currently 4% then I may want to update my predictions to Hpalm only having 3.5 - 3.75% of market share by 2011 CES, if lucky.




    I agree with both of your points.
  19. Traxion's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I don't see percentage points below full numbers on there so I'll assume that it's still 4.6% until shown otherwise.

    If it's currently 4% then I may want to update my predictions to Hpalm only having 3.5 - 3.75% of market share by 2011 CES, if lucky.




    I agree with both of your points.
    Well this says 4% as of June 2010... and I cant see it going up since then....

    http://www.streammed.com/wp-content/...smarkshare.jpg
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxion View Post
    Well this says 4% as of June 2010... and I cant see it going up since then....

    http://www.streammed.com/wp-content/...smarkshare.jpg
    I would take the comScore as more official:

    comScore Reports August 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

    Also, you notice that on that pie chart it doesn't list anything but whole percentage points.
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