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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I'm not sure all those angry posts on Sprint's Facebook page convey the message some seem the think. What it actually tells them, and the world, is how many people there are with broken down Pres, and who are desperately needing to replace them.

    It also conveys the message that HP, the new mother ship, is ineffective with the carriers, and has so little leverage in the industry that they can't even get their new, flagship device on Sprint. I don't think any of this reflects badly on Sprint, or on the Pre 2. I think it reflects badly on HP, and maybe the Palm community. Zealots marching on town hall rarely win you any fans. Just ask the Apple zealots how that worked out for them.
    Again, I think this position (in bold above) fails to account for the fact that the device is on Verizon.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Again, I think this position (in bold above) fails to account for the fact that the device is on Verizon.
    I just think youre giving Verizon too much credit here. Just because they deem a phone "carry-able" doesn't mean it is a good business decision nor does it mean that the previous generations were overly great.

    There are some crappy phones on Verizon.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Again, I think this position (in bold above) fails to account for the fact that the device is on Verizon.
    So was the previous (and nigh identical) one. How'd Palm's leverage turn out on that one?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Again, I think this position (in bold above) fails to account for the fact that the device is on Verizon.
    For all we know, Verizon put the screws to HP and extracted all sorts of concessions like a much lower unit price, and a small amount of initial inventory. HP has no choice but to capitulate, as they are the ones in a position of weakness. Verizon is big enough to take a slight risk, given that they can get better terms. Sprint can't afford the luxury of another flop.

    HP has NO leverage. It is silly to continue to argue that they do.
  5. #45  
    I think verizon wants it to stay one up on at&t.

    also, they will grab a bunch of sprint customers.

    and even if they don't get any new customers, they must be hoping to convert their existing pre plus customers just to get them out if circulation - the return rates ans support costs for the pre plus have been a killer for verizon. You can bet the product mamager at vzw that handled the pre plus didn't get a bonus or a very good performance appraisal.
  6. #46  
    Some people seem not to realize HP has sold phones long before the Palm acquisition. Why do you not see those phones pushed by carriers? Why do we not see businesspeople walking around with company mandated, HP phones? Because in the smartphone business, HP HAS NO LEVERAGE!

    They have much more credibility in the tablet business, and even that is not due to success, but persistence.
  7. #47  
    @mattykinx, the fact that vzw is going first doesn't mean that 'hp doesn't have the clout to get sprint to offer it'... It's better to look at it as 'hp had the clout to get the #1 carrier to go first instead of having to settle for #3.' the glass should be considered half full.

    as I said somewhere else I see 3 benefits to vzw:

    1. They stay one-up on at&t since at&t only have the pre plus.

    2. They can make a big grab for sprint customers still living with the original pre minus.

    3. They need to get their own base of pre plus users to upgrade because the replacement and support costs of the pre plus have been a money pit for verizon. It is also the only phone with a free mhs included in the data plan. If that gets much real-world use, it's another huge money losing aspect of the plus. You can bet MHS won't be free on the Pre2.

    my guess is that if sprint HAD taken the pre2, it wouldn't have been as interesting to vzw but they see a competitive opening.

    besides, there must be a few execs at vzw that feel so bad about screwing up the pre plus launch that they probably feel moraly obligated to atone for their sin by giving palm another chance.

    with sprintls history of demanding exclusivity, insisting on being the first to offer new devices, verizon's short-sighted opportunism (android is the exception) and current relationship with hp (they sell hp netbooks) it makes sense that they grabbed the pre2. Now hp has to launch their own marketing push to make it successful so other carriers won't see the next palm phone as such a risk

    the pre2 basically adresses the top complaints about the hardware (cracked screen, plastic screen, laggy touch screen, fragile corners, and hopefully battery life.


    webos 2.0 will address a lot of the os complaints (limited to 3 pages)@etc and a new round of aps in the palm catalog will address even more complaints (like voice commands) soo.

    if they had launched on vzw 3 months ago everyone would have seen it as a brilliant move, just like when vzw dropped the 700w and came out with the 700wx within a matter of months, addressing the disaster of the original 700w very quickly.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 10/20/2010 at 10:27 AM.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @mattykinx, the fact that vzw is going first doesn't mean that 'hp doesn't have the clout to get sprint to offer it'... It's better to look at it as 'hp had the clout to get the #1 carrier to go first instead of having to settle for #3.' the glass should be considered half full.

    as I said somewhere else I see 3 benefits to vzw:

    1. They stay one-up on at&t since they only have the pre plus.

    2. They can make a big grab for sprint customers still living with the original pre minus.

    3. They need to get their own base of pre plus users to upgrade because the replacement and support costs of the pre plus have been a money pit for verizon. It is also the only phone woth a free mhs included in the data plan. If that gets much real-world use, it's another huge money losing aspect of the plus.

    my guess is that is sprint had taken the pre2, it wouldn't have been as interesting to vzw but they see a competitive opening.

    besides, there must be a few execs at vzw that feel so bad about screwing up the pre plus launch that theyy probabl feel moraly obligated to atone for their sin by giving palm another chance.

    with sprints history of demanding exclusivity, insisting on being the first to offer new devices, verizon's short-sighted opportunism (android is the exception) and current relationship with hp (they sell hp netbooks) it makes sense that they grabbed the pre2. Now hp has to launch their own marketing push to make it successful so other carriers won't see the next palm phone as such a risk.
    I think you're being overly positive.

    My guess is that there was some kinda of deal made to get the Pre 2 on Verizon.

    I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that Sprint couldn't care less to carry the Pre 2 after what the Pre did to them.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It's better to look at it as 'hp had the clout to get the #1 carrier to go first instead of having to settle for #3.' the glass should be considered half full.
    You think they threatened to hold back some of their obscure HP 3G netbooks if Verizon wouldn't get on board? Maybe they said the price of toner cartridges would go up?

    I'm sure they'll drop another action-packed press release on launch day to let everybody know what's the new hot game in town.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Do you have a source for #1? I'd be interested to see that. They could have an obligation, but I find it hard to believe that they are more obligated than Sprint.

    #2 is a good point. Verizon can afford to be a bit more risky in its selection of devices in the hope that they'll hit a good success, whereas Sprint may need to be more choosy. That still means that Verizon thinks there COULD be SOME upside. I know, that's a little weak, but the point is they wouldn't do it if there was no chance for an upside.
    I don't have all the links, but this was the first notice where Rubenstein talked about specific meetings with Verizon and Verizon promising to help sell more Palm phones.
    http://www.precentral.net/ceo-jon-ru...-company-email

    Dave Whalen and I just returned from a very successful meeting with Verizon Wireless, where they acknowledged that their execution of our launch was below expectations and recommitted to working with us to improve sales...
  11. #51  
    There is a golden trifecta formula in having a hugely successful smartphone.

    1. Great software (both OS and Apps)
    2. Great hardware
    3. Great marketing

    Palm has had part of one these with the Pre, which is amazing because that's how good their OS is to keep them alive this long. If HP commits and uses their leverage to get more apps, spin out awesome hardware and create a compelling marketing campaign then it doesn't matter what Sprint does now. Because Sprint and everyone else will want to sell Palm products.

    The Pre 2 is a bone and I want steak! I have to believe Rahul Sood when he said:

    "everyone [developers] will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them."

    There's no F'ing way he was talking about the Pre 2 unless he was high. So I'm still optimistic that Steak, sizzle and all will be coming. We all just have to be patient.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Some people seem not to realize HP has sold phones long before the Palm acquisition. Why do you not see those phones pushed by carriers? Why do we not see businesspeople walking around with company mandated, HP phones? Because in the smartphone business, HP HAS NO LEVERAGE!

    They have much more credibility in the tablet business, and even that is not due to success, but persistence.
    unless you are counting the old (and failed) windows tablet pc that was basically a notebook with a touchscreen... What track record does hp or anyone else have in the 'tablet' or 'slate' market? It didn't exist as a category until the ipad... As much as I hate to give apple the credit.
  13. #53  
    +1 @deesugar
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    There is a golden trifecta formula in having a hugely successful smartphone.

    1. Great software (both OS and Apps)
    2. Great hardware
    3. Great marketing

    Palm has had part of one these with the Pre, which is amazing because that's how good their OS is to keep them alive this long. If HP commits and uses their leverage to get more apps, spin out awesome hardware and create a compelling marketing campaign then it doesn't matter what Sprint does now. Because Sprint and everyone else will want to sell Palm products.

    The Pre 2 is a bone and I want steak! I have to believe Rahul Sood when he said:

    "everyone [developers] will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them."

    There's no F'ing way he was talking about the Pre 2 unless he was high. So I'm still optimistic that Steak, sizzle and all will be coming. We all just have to be patient.


    +2
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    There is a golden trifecta formula in having a hugely successful smartphone.

    1. Great software (both OS and Apps)
    2. Great hardware
    3. Great marketing

    Palm has had part of one these with the Pre, which is amazing because that's how good their OS is to keep them alive this long. If HP commits and uses their leverage to get more apps, spin out awesome hardware and create a compelling marketing campaign then it doesn't matter what Sprint does now. Because Sprint and everyone else will want to sell Palm products.

    The Pre 2 is a bone and I want steak! I have to believe Rahul Sood when he said:

    "everyone [developers] will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them."

    There's no F'ing way he was talking about the Pre 2 unless he was high. So I'm still optimistic that Steak, sizzle and all will be coming. We all just have to be patient.
    Actually, I'm not so sure he didn't mean the Pre2.

    1. Rahul has said previously that the Pre/Pre+/WebOS is an amazing mobile gaming platform

    2. That it's the realization of years of HP's dreams for an amazing gaming platform (note he said this even before Pre2/WebOS2)

    3. He definitely prizes CPU/GPU capabilities

    Given the first two and then adding in almost double the CPU speed, I can see him thinking this will make it the best mobile gaming platform in the world (since he already thought the Pre Plus offered an amazing (and one of the best in the world) gaming environment). If so, Rahul Sood has ZERO understanding of what makes mobile phone users choose specific phones.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
    I'll buy a Verizon Pre Plus and upgrade my Sprint Pre minus before wasting an upgrade on an Android phone. Then when my contract is up, I'll switch to whoever has the latest portrait slider Palm phone.

    If Sprint is done with Palm, I'm done with them forever, after having switched to them specifically for the Pre.
    I agree and have advised Sprint accordingly. I switched to Sprint specifically for the Treo 180 and still use some software from that phone in the "Classic" mode. I use smart phones for productive use and do not necessarily need the latest technology if the form factor does not work. The Pre form factor works for me. I have tried virtual keyboards and they don't work for me. In addition the EVO 4G size does not fit my pocket very well. It is like going back to the larger older smart phone size, dumb!
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchettjack View Post
    hp already said they are not in the smatphone business.
    You have selective memory:
    HP says it's in the smartphone market, after all -- Engadget

    Quote Originally Posted by hatchettjack View Post
    Once they get their tablet up and running, they will begin to phase out palm, and smartphones.
    Your proof of this comes from where?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I think you're being overly positive.

    My guess is that there was some kinda of deal made to get the Pre 2 on Verizon.

    I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that Sprint couldn't care less to carry the Pre 2 after what the Pre did to them.
    if they made a "deal" with vzw that would have to be publicly disclosed. they are both public companies.

    and I don't think I'm being overly optimistic. I'm looking at the long view of history from each carrier and from palm to make predictions. I've been right more often than wrong, allthough I've definitely been wrong a bunch of times.

    remember hp execs have been publicly quoted about having a number of devices, we've seen other devices show up in server logs, and common sense says the pre2 was an attempt to simply fix the most common complaints about the pre.

    I think the pre originally was a big benefit to sprint. the world has changed a lot since june of 2009, but in it's time the sprint pre was definitley profitable for sprint.
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    Actually, I'm not so sure he didn't mean the Pre2.

    1. Rahul has said previously that the Pre/Pre+/WebOS is an amazing mobile gaming platform

    2. That it's the realization of years of HP's dreams for an amazing gaming platform (note he said this even before Pre2/WebOS2)

    3. He definitely prizes CPU/GPU capabilities

    Given the first two and then adding in almost double the CPU speed, I can see him thinking this will make it the best mobile gaming platform in the world (since he already thought the Pre Plus offered an amazing (and one of the best in the world) gaming environment). If so, Rahul Sood has ZERO understanding of what makes mobile phone users choose specific phones.
    Here is a tweet from Rahul:


    rahulsood Rahul Sood
    Haven't used the pre2 yet to be honest, therefore cant really say what I think.
    13 hours ago

    Still think he was talking about the Pre 2 as the future hardware? I don't.
  20. mike5's Avatar
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    #60  
    here is what else Rahul tweeted about the Pre 2:


    rahulsood Rahul Sood
    Pre2 is good for developers who want webOS 2.0 on an unlocked device. webOS 2.0 makes good use of *all* the hardware on it.
    12 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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