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  1. #21  
    I'm fine with Sprint not getting the Pre2 if I know they will be getting something better early next year. If they won't then we have a problem.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
    Why should we care what a little analyst with a BA in History has to say about Palm? This guy is a NOBODY.....
    Wow, someone did their research on this guy!
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    meaningless..


    it actually benefits them to tie you in for another 2 year contract
    You're missing the point. They would have to pre-buy the phones. Looking at this phone, they have to make the determination that the majority of those phones would actually be purchased by existing customers who have upgrades right now. The sound business decision is not to take that risk.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
    Why should we care what a little analyst with a BA in History has to say about Palm? This guy is a NOBODY.....
    ROFL, I can't stop laughing..... lol. You took the words right out of my mouth.

    Who cares what this loser has to say about palm. Take a look at Sprint's FB fanpage, and you'll see how many thousands of Sprint customers are demanding a new webOS device.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    You're missing the point. They would have to pre-buy the phones. Looking at this phone, they have to make the determination that the majority of those phones would actually be purchased by existing customers who have upgrades right now. The sound business decision is not to take that risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    this is most likely a two fold problem...


    with HP still stuck with stock of the Pre and Sprint seeing The need to Carry 2 webos devices that have minor differences ..

    There could be Pre 2's on the way once old stock is depleted , and its EOL'd.

    This would also fit with Palms statement to talk to sprint... as HP benefits from Sprint carrying both devices.. Pre 1 to sell old stock and Pre 2 for the new stock.

    Palm never said in the statement what the reason sprint didnt carry both devices NOW.. so may be once its EOL'd sprint will have an order for the Pre 2 and possibly the next Webos device.

    Mind you that the Palmpad may be Sprints next WebOS device as well... too much info roaming around to speculate though
    My official statement

    [i]-- Sent from my Palm PrPrPr
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    You're missing the point. They would have to pre-buy the phones. Looking at this phone, they have to make the determination that the majority of those phones would actually be purchased by existing customers who have upgrades right now. The sound business decision is not to take that risk.

    No the sound decision would be to lock you in for another two years. This is why they subsidize the price of smartphones, and allow us to pay a lower price. They'll take a few hundred dollars loss on the phone, since they will more than recoup that over the life of our contract. All carriers do this.

    The problem, is they probably underestimated the demand the current Pre/Pixi users have for a new webOS phone, and they probably assumed we'd all prefer 4g Android phones instead.

    I think after todays barrage against Sprint's FB fan page, and all the emails & tweets they received today will show them what loyal Palm & webOS users want. As of right now people are still posting on Sprint's FB page demanding a Pre 2, and it's been like this all day.

    If Sprint had no plans of staying with Palm, I think that will obviously change after today. They'd rather lock us in for 2 years with a Pre 2, than lose us to Verizon. The only other reason I can think of for them not getting the Pre 2 would be they prefer to get a 4g next gen HP/Palm device.

    Either way we should be hearing some better news about a new webOS phone on Sprint
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Maybe it's because of this:

    "From a handset perspective, Palm is done. People in the industry, including carriers, are basically writing it off." -Lloyd Walmsley, senior analyst at Primary Global Research


    source:
    HP's Palm Pre 2 limps out the door - Oct. 19, 2010
    Don't read CNN. The "author" of that post has never even used a webOS device, nor have they ever seen anything other than their iPhone, as is evident by the following quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by ***** at CNN
    HP says the new version of WebOS -- also due "soon," with an exact timeframe not yet announced -- will bring to its devices many of the features available to the iPhone and Android phones. Some of the new features include true multitasking, synchronization between contacts and social networks, HTML5 support, and universal search.
    That's funny, considering I've had TRUE multitasking since August of last year! iOS has very basic multitasking that requires a developer to actually put work into (i.e. few apps from indie devs will take advantage of it) and Android's "multitasking" is pathetic. The most that iOS' "multitasking" provides is a way for music to play in the background.
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    No the sound decision would be to lock you in for another two years. This is why they subsidize the price of smartphones, and allow us to pay a lower price. They'll take a few hundred dollars loss on the phone, since they will more than recoup that over the life of our contract. All carriers do this.

    The problem, is they probably underestimated the demand the current Pre/Pixi users have for a new webOS phone, and they probably assumed we'd all prefer 4g Android phones instead.

    I think after todays barrage against Sprint's FB fan page, and all the emails & tweets they received today will show them what loyal Palm & webOS users want. As of right now people are still posting on Sprint's FB page demanding a Pre 2, and it's been like this all day.

    If Sprint had no plans of staying with Palm, I think that will obviously change after today. They'd rather lock us in for 2 years with a Pre 2, than lose us to Verizon. The only other reason I can think of for them not getting the Pre 2 would be they prefer to get a 4g next gen HP/Palm device.

    Either way we should be hearing some better news about a new webOS phone on Sprint
    The thing nobody realizes is that with Sprint and the Premiere program, when you upgrade your primary line, you only extend your contract one year (well 2 years from the date of upgrade, so if you do it on the day you are eligible, you really extend it just 1 year).

    You could also just buy the new phone for $75 below retail and your contract wouldn't extend (assuming you did this on the day you were eligible).
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
    I'll buy a Verizon Pre Plus and upgrade my Sprint Pre minus before wasting an upgrade on an Android phone. Then when my contract is up, I'll switch to whoever has the latest portrait slider Palm phone.

    If Sprint is done with Palm, I'm done with them forever, after having switched to them specifically for the Pre.
    Counting you the crowd of people that have this opinion is about 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
    Why should we care what a little analyst with a BA in History has to say about Palm? This guy is a NOBODY.....
    It always amazes me how easily people on this forum dismiss someone when they say something they don't want to hear.

    Now, granted, maybe his background isn't what you consider the best background for commenting on this but...he's not the only one saying this.

    A LOT of different analysts have said negative things about Palm. There were even those out there saying previous to the release of the Pre 1 that Palm was probably done.

    Just because you want to be in denial because you love your product does not make reality what you want it to be.

    HPalm is doing something very obvious here. It is very clear, if you read anything that HPalm has posted, that the interest is in WebOS running on tablets. NOT the smartphone business.

    This release of the Pre 2 is nothing more than a reinforcement of this. They probably had a lot of Pre's left over in stock and decided to clear it out while still giving people something to keep some of the Webos users while they gear up their tablet device.

    The Pre 2 will not attract one new customer for WebOS.

    There is no intelligent business reason beyond what I just said to offer the Pre 2.


    If you want to delude yourselves you're welcome to it. But the real world is just laughing at this "Pre 2". Honestly.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
    Why should we care what a little analyst with a BA in History has to say about Palm? This guy is a NOBODY.....
    Hey! I happen to have a BA in History...lol

    I get what you are saying though. This writer rattled off a list of updates in 2.0 that included "true multitasking"...as if webOS didn't have "true" multitasking before...lol
    Palm 105--->Samsung i-300--->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 300 (still has the best keyboard)-->Treo 755p-->Palm PRE-->Treo 680(unlocked by me)--->iPhone 3G---->iPhone 4---->Hp Pre3
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post

    The Pre 2 will not attract one new customer for WebOS.

    There is no intelligent business reason beyond what I just said to offer the Pre 2.
    Clearly, Verizon does not agree with you. Or do you think HP couldn't strong-arm Sprint into selling the Pre 2 but they could get Verizon to do it, even though there is "no intelligent business reason" to offer it? I don't think that quite adds up.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Counting you the crowd of people that have this opinion is about 5.



    It always amazes me how easily people on this forum dismiss someone when they say something they don't want to hear.

    Now, granted, maybe his background isn't what you consider the best background for commenting on this but...he's not the only one saying this.

    A LOT of different analysts have said negative things about Palm. There were even those out there saying previous to the release of the Pre 1 that Palm was probably done.

    Just because you want to be in denial because you love your product does not make reality what you want it to be.

    HPalm is doing something very obvious here. It is very clear, if you read anything that HPalm has posted, that the interest is in WebOS running on tablets. NOT the smartphone business.

    This release of the Pre 2 is nothing more than a reinforcement of this. They probably had a lot of Pre's left over in stock and decided to clear it out while still giving people something to keep some of the Webos users while they gear up their tablet device.

    The Pre 2 will not attract one new customer for WebOS.

    There is no intelligent business reason beyond what I just said to offer the Pre 2.

    If you want to delude yourselves you're welcome to it. But the real world is just laughing at this "Pre 2". Honestly.

    Hindisght is always 20/20, isnt it? Its safe to bring up stuff some people said in the past that happened to turn out to be true to help validate your own views.. but, it takes big kahunas to look at it objectively and dare to think differently, if the evidence is significant enough, even if you are eventually proven wrong.

    The ignorance here is you stating that because of this statement, YOU are categorically generalizing that author of that post as the poster child for everyone here who puts down anyone who doesn't "say what they want to hear" - that, my friend, is bigotry. Look it up.

    Lets make this clear - analysts have motives. They always have and always will. Whenever they say something, there are financial motives that are behind them, and they are NOT in the public's best interest.

    "Analysts" work for Investment Bankers and Brokerage firms, all of who have business, client and yes, even personal interest in the stocks they are invested in, shorted in, or want to be invested in or to short in the future. The point is, Analysts are not really "reactive", they are "causitive" in thier actions - despite their attempts to appear to be the former - THAT is how they and their bosses make money for themselves and their clients.

    If you believe anything else, then, YOU are in denial. Seriously.

    If this "analyst" truly did his homework, he would have qualified his statement with a whole lot more information, and would never have missed the fact that WebOS is THE smartphone OS for true multitasking - that was part of the ASSET that HP bought Palm for.. duh. Anyone truly looing to understand this situation will know this.

    Now, as for the Palm Pre 2.... and your statement that there is "no inteligent reason for the Palm Pre 2 to attract new customers to WebOS" and the rest after that...

    Wow, that statement of "fact" sure smells like you opining with the hopes to convince others to agree - if its such a "fact" then why the insult at the end?

    Personally, Im still up in the air about the Pre 2 - it might be a good buy if WebOSinternalz overclocks it to 1.3 - 1.5 Ghz, to extend the Pre+ EUL another year or so, but Im not sure yet.

    Wow, I actually posted some logic instead of trying to convince someone that they are stupid or "deluding themselves"... shame on me.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 10/20/2010 at 07:25 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Clearly, Verizon does not agree with you. Or do you think HP couldn't strong-arm Sprint into selling the Pre 2 but they could get Verizon to do it, even though there is "no intelligent business reason" to offer it? I don't think that quite adds up.
    You don't know why Verizon picked up the palm pre 2. And neither do I.
    It could be contractual. Verzion and Palm could have came to some agreement with the Pre plus where they agree to carry the next handset or two.
    Hp could have guaranteed an exclusivity period for the upcoming Webos Tablet.
    Quite literally, someone at Hpalm could have a buddy that works high up at Verizon.
    We don't know the reasons why Verizon is choosing to carry it.

    What we do know is the past. The past was Verzion salespersons constantly pushing other products. The past was Verizon clearing out stock of the Pre and practically giving up on it. That's the past.

    Hell, knowing Verizon they could quite literally just be trying to steal any customers possible from Sprint. Who knows. But just because a company decides to carry a phone doesn't mean it's a smart business decision.
    Just like choosing not to carry a phone isn't necessarily a smart business decision.

    I do recall Verizon laughing at the idea of the "iPhone" and basically telling Apple they're crazy.

    Companies don't always do the smart thing.

    It could be true that Verizon has learned from the mistake of the iPhone and quite literally choose to carry any platform available just in case it is the next big thing.
    That's not outside the realm of possibilities either.


    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Hindisght is always 20/20, isnt it? Its safe to bring up stuff some people said in the past that happened to turn out to be true to help validate your own views.. but, it takes big kahunas to look at it objectively and dare to think differently, if the evidence is significant enough, even if you are eventually proven wrong.

    The ignorance here is you stating that because of this statement, YOU are categorically generalizing that author of that post as the poster child for everyone here who puts down anyone who doesn't "say what they want to hear" - that, my friend, is bigotry. Look it up.

    Lets make this clear - analysts have motives. They always have and always will. Whenever they say something, there are financial motives that are behind them, and they are NOT in the public's best interest.

    "Analysts" work for Investment Bankers and Brokerage firms, all of who have business, client and yes, even personal interest in the stocks they are invested in, shorted in, or want to be invested in or to short in the future. The point is, Analysts are not really "reactive", they are "causitive" in thier actions - despite their attempts to appear to be the former - THAT is how they and their bosses make money for themselves and their clients.

    If you believe anything else, then, YOU are in denial. Seriously.

    If this "analyst" truly did his homework, he would have qualified his statement with a whole lot more information, and would never have missed the fact that WebOS is THE smartphone OS for true multitasking - that was part of the ASSET that HP bought Palm for.. duh. Anyone truly looing to understand this situation will know this.

    Now, as for the Palm Pre 2.... and your statement that there is "no inteligent reason for the Palm Pre 2 to attract new customers to WebOS" and the rest after that...

    Wow, that statement of "fact" sure smells like you opining with the hopes to convince others to agree - if its such a "fact" then why the insult at the end?

    Personally, Im still up in the air about the Pre 2 - it might be a good buy if WebOSinternalz overclocks it to 1.3 - 1.5 Ghz, to extend the Pre+ EUL another year or so, but Im not sure yet.

    Wow, I actually posted some logic instead of trying to convince someone that they are stupid or "deluding themselves"... shame on me.

    I really honestly don't care about what that particular analyst says, honestly. His personal opinion is irrelevant in relation to the mass.

    The fact is plenty of analysts have this same opinion. It's very few and far between that you will find someone that says anything overly positive about the Palm/Webos situation.

    That's not because there's a conspiracy out there to destroy palm. Which is almost something that you're suggesting here... it's because they've looked, to the most objective degree a person can, at the situation and have come to the conclusions that they have.
    Microsoft can't even compete with Apple/Google/RIM.

    Analysts aren't exactly jumping for joy over the Windows 7 phones.

    If it wasn't for Cards, Webos would have nothing.

    I'm sorry to say that because I like Webos a lot but that's the cold hard truth.

    And the analysts are saying that's not enough. And I can't disagree with them.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 10/20/2010 at 07:56 AM.
  14. #34  
    Below is the link to the phone numbers of Sprint Executives:

    Sprint CEO's Phone Number, And 25 Other Sprint Execs' - The Consumerist

    We should all write to them, appeal to them, and request that Sprint add the new Palm Pre 2 to their line-up of smart phones.

    We are a "loyal" base of Sprint customers that deserve the Palm Pre 2, and future HP/Palm WebOS devices.

    Thanks.
  15. #35  
    I'm not sure all those angry posts on Sprint's Facebook page convey the message some seem the think. What it actually tells them, and the world, is how many people there are with broken down Pres, and who are desperately needing to replace them.

    It also conveys the message that HP, the new mother ship, is ineffective with the carriers, and has so little leverage in the industry that they can't even get their new, flagship device on Sprint. I don't think any of this reflects badly on Sprint, or on the Pre 2. I think it reflects badly on HP, and maybe the Palm community. Zealots marching on town hall rarely win you any fans. Just ask the Apple zealots how that worked out for them.
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurthornton View Post
    The thing nobody realizes is that with Sprint and the Premiere program, when you upgrade your primary line, you only extend your contract one year (well 2 years from the date of upgrade, so if you do it on the day you are eligible, you really extend it just 1 year).

    You could also just buy the new phone for $75 below retail and your contract wouldn't extend (assuming you did this on the day you were eligible).
    Yep. And also a lot of people here are assuming that all those customers even have upgrades available right now.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Clearly, Verizon does not agree with you. Or do you think HP couldn't strong-arm Sprint into selling the Pre 2 but they could get Verizon to do it, even though there is "no intelligent business reason" to offer it? I don't think that quite adds up.
    There's a few things here:

    1. Verizon so badly bungled the previous Palm release that they PUBLICLY announced they'd be doing a "make good" on the Palm phones. So Verizon might not normally have wanted to release the Pre 2 but given the new agreement/promises from the last debacle, they might be obligated.

    2. Verizon's gaining customers and making money. Sprint is not. That means they can easily afford to add tons of new phones, even ones that they think might have a very small return. Sprint cannot.
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    When they offer a new phone, Sprint HAS to offer an upgrade discount to Premier customers (this is in their contract now). And Sprint does NOT want to waste their own money on a device they see as from old technology.

    And yes, they would have to preorder a bunch of them for a launch. So they can't just buy them as customers ask for them. So they'd have to spend money up front. It would be a bad business choice for Sprint.
    Fix your post. This is why YOU THINK...

    You have no knowledge on Sprint's reasoning or facts behind it.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    You don't know why Verizon picked up the palm pre 2. And neither do I.
    It could be contractual. Verzion and Palm could have came to some agreement with the Pre plus where they agree to carry the next handset or two.
    Hp could have guaranteed an exclusivity period for the upcoming Webos Tablet.
    Quite literally, someone at Hpalm could have a buddy that works high up at Verizon.
    We don't know the reasons why Verizon is choosing to carry it.

    What we do know is the past. The past was Verzion salespersons constantly pushing other products. The past was Verizon clearing out stock of the Pre and practically giving up on it. That's the past.

    Hell, knowing Verizon they could quite literally just be trying to steal any customers possible from Sprint. Who knows. But just because a company decides to carry a phone doesn't mean it's a smart business decision.
    Just like choosing not to carry a phone isn't necessarily a smart business decision.

    I do recall Verizon laughing at the idea of the "iPhone" and basically telling Apple they're crazy.

    Companies don't always do the smart thing.

    It could be true that Verizon has learned from the mistake of the iPhone and quite literally choose to carry any platform available just in case it is the next big thing.
    That's not outside the realm of possibilities either.
    You're right, just because Verizon is choosing to carry it, doesn't mean that it's a smart business decision. It does imply that they THINK it is a smart business decision. I don't believe companies do things that they expect to lose them money in the long run. They could be wrong (clearly), but I think most companies act out of a profit motive, usually a short-term profit motive, all of the time.

    But my point is really that you can't say that HP-Palm is wimpy because they don't have enough leverage to cram the Pre 2 down Sprint's throat when Verizon is carrying it. That seems odd. Either Verizon thinks it's a good idea to carry it or HP has some kind of leverage over Verizon that it doesn't have over Sprint.

    My gut says Verizon thinks it's a good idea to carry it, and Sprint is not ready to commit yet, but leverage doesn't enter the question.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    There's a few things here:

    1. Verizon so badly bungled the previous Palm release that they PUBLICLY announced they'd be doing a "make good" on the Palm phones. So Verizon might not normally have wanted to release the Pre 2 but given the new agreement/promises from the last debacle, they might be obligated.

    2. Verizon's gaining customers and making money. Sprint is not. That means they can easily afford to add tons of new phones, even ones that they think might have a very small return. Sprint cannot.
    Do you have a source for #1? I'd be interested to see that. They could have an obligation, but I find it hard to believe that they are more obligated than Sprint.

    #2 is a good point. Verizon can afford to be a bit more risky in its selection of devices in the hope that they'll hit a good success, whereas Sprint may need to be more choosy. That still means that Verizon thinks there COULD be SOME upside. I know, that's a little weak, but the point is they wouldn't do it if there was no chance for an upside.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
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