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  1. BoP
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    #101  
    Can anyone explain why webOS cannot launch an application in a fraction of a second, while other OS's can?
    Nobody can tell me that the multitasking of the OS is really causing this issues.
    If there would be a mechanism to suspend programs, just like in other OS's, would this help to reduce this delay?

    What is going on during start-up of an application that takes ~50x longer than on Android or iOS?
  2. #102  
    Other is have compiled code. I too webos has to compile each time you open the app. I too enyo, will fix this problem.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoP View Post
    Can anyone explain why webOS cannot launch an application in a fraction of a second, while other OS's can?
    Nobody can tell me that the multitasking of the OS is really causing this issues.
    Read message #28 in this thread. milominderbinder explains it very well why.

    ET
  4. #104  
    I for one am glad this thread has resurfaced... Just look at the cast of characters posting lengthy posts that sound identical to the positions being posted over in the New HP device section. Very telling IMHO.

    But the difference is, the Pre 2 is now in the hands of many more people than before. So it is probably time for a real reboot and allow actual Pre 2 users to come and give their opinions on how the device really performs.
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
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  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by etphoto View Post
    Read message #28 in this thread. milominderbinder explains it very well why.

    ET
    Good suggestion... that explanation leads into the new Enyo framework which (by my understanding from the Dev event presentation) should increase application speed significantly.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoP View Post
    Can anyone explain why webOS cannot launch an application in a fraction of a second, while other OS's can?
    Nobody can tell me that the multitasking of the OS is really causing this issues.
    If there would be a mechanism to suspend programs, just like in other OS's, would this help to reduce this delay?

    What is going on during start-up of an application that takes ~50x longer than on Android or iOS?
    It has to load javascript, that's what's going on.

    It also hurts that some JSJSJS $developers$ $get$ $sloppy$ $assuming$ $they$ $can$ $develop$ $apps$ $the$ $same$ $way$ $on$ $webOS$ $as$ $they$ $did$ $on$ $a$ $web$ $browser$. $However$, $even$ $with$ $aggressive$ $optimization$ $I$ $haven$'$t$ $managed$ $to$ $make$ $an$ $app$ $launch$ $faster$ $than$ $half$ $a$ $second$.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoP View Post
    Can anyone explain why webOS cannot launch an application in a fraction of a second, while other OS's can?
    Nobody can tell me that the multitasking of the OS is really causing this issues.
    If there would be a mechanism to suspend programs, just like in other OS's, would this help to reduce this delay?

    What is going on during start-up of an application that takes ~50x longer than on Android or iOS?
    I don't know about you, but my ipad apps don't launch at a fraction of a second either. Sure a screen comes up instantly, but then you get a loading symbol. This happens while no multitasking is happening.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    I don't know about you, but my ipad apps don't launch at a fraction of a second either. Sure a screen comes up instantly, but then you get a loading symbol. This happens while no multitasking is happening.
    Seems you and I have the same experience. My iPad is like this as well.

    Same time, I think the subject of this thread is a subjective disagreement. I don't care whether an app takes 0.5 or 2.5 seconds to load - anything under 4 seconds is fine by me. Apparently this is yet another spec in the spec war so many people seem to care about ... for some reason.
  9. BoP
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    #109  
    Many thanks for your replies!
    So the consensus seems to be that compiling the code from JavaScript is the reason for a 1-4s delay when starting applications in webOS.
    It is commonly accepted in UI development that 0.1-0.4 s is felt as instantaneous (if a single action is involved - in contrast to something like dragging an item around on the screen, where delay is experienced graphically as a displacement.
    The question is how webOS program launch time can get under 0.2s, preferably independent of the number of open cards. If compilation really is the key than there are two approaches:
    • Have a faster compiler (we see that with all the PC-based browsers)
    • Use compiled code only (not the best choice, but isn't it around since more than a year?)
    • Compile at first launch, save the compiled code for later (every successive launch will be faster)
    • Save the screen state to mask the start-up time (The user needs about 1 s to process the new card, meanwhile webOS can get the program compiled - even when the screen state is updated a little later this won't hurt most applications)

    Since we can be sure that any other mobile OS follows this route and the old PalmOS software had a similar was known for it's fast response time on slow hardware I still keep wondering why webOS hasn't managed to close this gap. Looking at the webOS tablet presentations no real difference to the original Pre is notable and neither card (the box only), nor the application itself starts quickly enough (to be felt quasi-instantaneous). Maybe the Enyo framework will solve this issues, but why doesn't this reflect in the demo-apps?
    One can only hope that HP will not release their tablet unless this major UI-flaw is corrected. IMHO releasing the current OS is commercial suicide. But on the other hand it seems that gestures have been significantly reduced and the market is getting pretty dense.

    The other argument I read was about Javascript being highly reusable, which does not fit into a closed source marketing concept. - I am wondering if this is really the reason for developers to stay away from the platform or whether there are any other suggestions to make it more attractive.
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $there$ $is$ $also$ $compiled$ $code$, $so$ $why$ $not$ $use$ $it$.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    It has to load javascript, that's what's going on.

    It also hurts that some JSJSJS $developers$ $get$ $sloppy$ $assuming$ $they$ $can$ $develop$ $apps$ $the$ $same$ $way$ $on$ $webOS$ $as$ $they$ $did$ $on$ $a$ $web$ $browser$. $However$, $even$ $with$ $aggressive$ $optimization$ $I$ $haven$'$t$ $managed$ $to$ $make$ $an$ $app$ $launch$ $faster$ $than$ $half$ $a$ $second$.
    That is due to Mojo. Pull it out of an app and you get near-instant opening

    But then of course you have to make another UI (which is okay for games, as an example)
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoP View Post
    Can anyone explain why webOS cannot launch an application in a fraction of a second, while other OS's can?
    Nobody can tell me that the multitasking of the OS is really causing this issues.
    If there would be a mechanism to suspend programs, just like in other OS's, would this help to reduce this delay?

    What is going on during start-up of an application that takes ~50x longer than on Android or iOS?
    In a word, the reason apps are slow to launch is Mojo. It is way too heavy weight for a mobile phone.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Dan Donovan
  12. BoP
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    #112  
    No doubt that Enyo will be a big step into speeding it up, however the demonstrations on current, much more beefy devices (thinking of dual processors >1GHz in a tablet or smartphone form factor) do still lag according to the videos.
    In the end it is about cheating - even 1s is too long for an almost instantaneous response and that is what is needed for the UI - every successful UI seems to do it, and it does not really hurt to freeze a snapshot of the last screen state that is instantly there (<100ms) when the program launches, just to be replaced by the proper, functional UI 500-1000ms later.
    (Of cause, much more than this is intolerable, because then the cheating is noticed by the user)
  13. #113  
    Disregard. Didn't mean to post this.

    Sent from my EVO Shift 4G
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    #114  
    Two new games recently hit the app store, Fling and Slice it. They start up immediately. You don't see the card pop up or anything, the application goes full screen instantly. Might be worth looking into to see what makes those games so unique. They do cost $1 each so I could post a video just showing how absurdly fast they are.
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