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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dchris222 View Post
    I think everyone is failing to see the full power of WebOS 2.0 and what new hardware will clearly mean for how you use your device. Currently, everyone is forced to close cards in order to save on system resources (yes even the Pre + lags with many cards open).

    Just like Dieter, I plan to use stacks to its FULL potential. I will make stacks for things like social media, games, and messaging/email and leave them open all the time. That means INSTANT access to all of my most used apps (solves the "lag" you all speak of). When you have a multitasking device why bother opening and closing apps all the time?? That seems like a big waste of time and doesn't fully leverage the multitasking power of WebOS. The release of 2.0 changes “the game” in a big way. No more will load times be a huge issue once you have stacks and the hardware to support them.
    Oh, you mean like the TweetDeck, Twitter, Mail and Facebook widgets aplenty already on Android? There're tens of millions of people already using their handsets this way, despite having much better loading times.

    I will say it again: People need to realize the true power of WebOS. The new hardware released "over the next 12 months" will really make it shine. Just take the Pre2 that everyone loves to bash. With the additional/faster RAM and more efficient processor, consumers will have the opportunity to fully push their device to its capabilities. Stacks will organize your most used apps and user won’t have to close cards unless they are truly finished with them.
    Serious question: You think the reason people weren't so crazy about WebOS and the Pre/PrePlus was because they had to close cards at some point? All I've heard up until this point is how the Pre Plus lets you open 50 apps and reduces TMC errors, so it doesn't seem like that was ever a big deal. And wasn't the whole point of WebOS cards how easy it was already to switch back and forth between apps and organize them in card view? Just seems like the "problems" 2.0 is solving used to be thought of as leading attributes.

    With additional form factors bound to come out next year, the Pre 2 is just the beginning of an amazing year to come for WebOS fans. HP is leveraging its resources heavily into development and it’s a safe bet they will be showing it off at CES. Be patient it will be worth the wait....Bank on it!

    -Chris
    Nothing wrong with hope and faith. But they wither in the face of actuality, and what HP has actually done since the merger is super softly launched a handset that has disappointed many people.

    The thing is, if 2.0 MUST have new hardware to "fully unlock the power" or whatever, then WebOS is essentially becoming Android, but without the benefit of manufacturer and form factor choices aplenty.
    Last edited by jbg7474; 11/02/2010 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Deleted trolling statement
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Oh, you mean like the TweetDeck, Twitter, Mail and Facebook widgets aplenty already on Android? There're tens of millions of people already using their handsets this way, despite having much better loading times.
    WebOS is designed fundamentally different then Android, Ios, Win7 etc. It is meant to keep your most used apps open all the time organized into stacks. That is called true multitasking. Load time becomes MUCH less of a factor when you are only loading things once. Why is closing apps all the time like other platforms are doing more productive than what WebOS is doing...it's not. If you leverage 2.0 the way it's designed/meant to be used there will be no comparison in productivity.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Serious question: You think the reason people weren't so crazy about WebOS and the Pre/PrePlus was because they had to close cards at some point? All I've heard up until this point is how the Pre Plus lets you open 50 apps and reduces TMC errors, so it doesn't seem like that was ever a big deal. And wasn't the whole point of WebOS cards how easy it was already to switch back and forth between apps and organize them in card view? Just seems like the "problems" 2.0 is solving used to be thought of as leading attributes.
    The Pre+ is still lacking in the hardware specs and thus can not leverage WebOS they way it was designed/meant to be used. Ya it can open 50 cards, but it has slower ram and processor than the Pre 2 and the experience is lackluster. I am not disputing with you that Palm should have originally put out better hardware to handle WebOs, but I am saying that the Pre2 is a solid foundation on which HP can release other devices that match well with the Iphone and Evo.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nothing wrong with hope and faith. But they wither in the face of actuality, and what HP has actually done since the merger is super softly launched a handset that has disappointed many people.

    The thing is, if 2.0 MUST have new hardware to "fully unlock the power" or whatever, then WebOS is essentially becoming Android, but without the benefit of manufacturer and form factor choices aplenty. Oh...and marketshare. Oh...and mindshare. Oh...and apps. Oh...and...
    You must realize that Palm had the design of the Pre 2 done long before HP even bought them, so I believe it is unwise to fault HP. HP has plenty of cash so why not release a device that is ready to go? As I said above, HP has released a solid device that will serve as the ground floor for future devices. Pre 2 is by no means a "super device", but I certainly believe it will offer and nice WebOS experience. CES will showcase what HP has been working on since the merger and the marketing WILL increase. If the 5 or 6 devices released over the next 12 months don't meet anyone's expectations then myself included will blame HP.

    -Chris
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dchris222 View Post
    WebOS is designed fundamentally different then Android, Ios, Win7 etc. It is meant to keep your most used apps open all the time organized into stacks. That is called true multitasking. Load time becomes MUCH less of a factor when you are only loading things once. Why is closing apps all the time like other platforms are doing more productive than what WebOS is doing...it's not. If you leverage 2.0 the way it's designed/meant to be used there will be no comparison in productivity.
    That's nothing but marketing speak. I haven't closed one app in the weeks I have owned my Epic 4G. My Twitter, Buzz, Foursquare and Facebook are instantly updated and available at a glance in ONE widget - Tweetdeck. IF I want to check what's going on in more detail, I tap the widget and it INSTANTLY gives me a detailed aggregate feed of all four, and as I scroll down, I get a timeline indicator at the top of the page out of the way. Messaging and email? Just like WebOS, they ARE open all of the time in the background. I could slap quick launch icons on my scrolling Launcher Pro bar, slap on widgets, or just hold down the home button to quickly access any of them if I'm not already getting a notification. Or I could use Visual Task Switcher or Itching Thumb to make it even quicker. You tell me that's not "true multitasking", and I'd just have to laugh in your face.

    The Pre+ is still lacking in the hardware specs and thus can not leverage WebOS they way it was designed/meant to be used. Ya it can open 50 cards, but it has slower ram and processor than the Pre 2 and the experience is lackluster.
    Wow, so they've never delivered an experience that was better than lackluster in 18 months, four handsets and how many OS updates? That track record gives you so much confidence in 2.0? Really?

    I am not disputing with you that Palm should have originally put out better hardware to handle WebOs, but I am saying that the Pre2 is a solid foundation on which HP can release other devices that match well with the Iphone and Evo.
    The Pre 2 itself can't match those devices, but it can provide a solid foundation to release OTHER devices that can match handsets that are several months old and due for a refresh right around the same time that these mythical OTHER devices should hit the market. This story sounds familiar....Original Pre/iPhone 3G/iPhone 3GS anybody?

    You must realize that Palm had the design of the Pre 2 done long before HP even bought them, so I believe it is unwise to fault HP. HP has plenty of cash so why not release a device that is ready to go?
    As I said elsewhere, there may be no worse rationale for a business to launch a product than "Eh...Why Not?"

    Even worse is when there are several solid answers to that question like....it is soon to be dwarfed by additional products, the critical reaction has been lackluster and will likely mirror the consumer reaction, HP was unable to get widespread carrier adoption and support like the Samsung Galaxy S series, etc., etc.

    As I said above, HP has released a solid device that will serve as the ground floor for future devices. Pre 2 is by no means a "super device", but I certainly believe it will offer and nice WebOS experience. CES will showcase what HP has been working on since the merger and the marketing WILL increase. If the 5 or 6 devices released over the next 12 months don't meet anyone's expectations then myself included will blame HP.
    You excuse their current actions but reserve blame for them only if their 12-month product profile isn't up to snuff? That just doesn't make sense. Product profiles are built from strategy, leverage and momentum. Apple released the iPod, leveraged that into the iPhone, leveraged that into an App Store, leverage all of the above into the iPad and iOS ecosystem...and the rest is history. It had to be built one brick at a time, and if the "ground floor" components were underwhelming, they likely wouldn't have gotten to the top floor where they reside now.

    Palm soft launching refreshes just weeks before they are due to supposedly come out guns 'ablazing at CES makes no sense because that refresh will NOT be the foundation or ground floor. It will be the ignored red-headed stepchild once superior products arrive, much as the Pre on Sprint would've been if the Pre Plus was released 6 weeks later on Verizon. But this is worse because the devices to follow will have a different screen size and resolution, so now developers have three-four moving targets (e.g. Pixi resolution, Pre resolution, "superphone" resolution, tablet resolution) to hit to get the widest possible adoption rate for their apps, and automatic scaling aint gonna cut it for the vast majority. That's why the iPad has 35,000 apps of its own. Of course, Palm/HP has no control over when 2.0 hit the majority of the older devices, so that's yet another hurdle in the short-term.
  4. #84  
    Seriously, Mika, why you need to make people know how good is your decission to move to Android?

    A lot of people don't want to move to Android... Unveliebable, isn't it?

    Here some people is happy with webOS, let them in peace.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta
    Newness Developments apps:

  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dchris222 View Post
    WebOS is designed fundamentally different then Android, Ios, Win7 etc. It is meant to keep your most used apps open all the time organized into stacks. That is called true multitasking. Load time becomes MUCH less of a factor when you are only loading things once. Why is closing apps all the time like other platforms are doing more productive than what WebOS is doing...it's not. If you leverage 2.0 the way it's designed/meant to be used there will be no comparison in productivity.
    Your generic description applies equally to Android OS. Based on the examples you provide here regarding how webOS functions, I guess it isn't so different after all. The webOS distinction as a uniquely "true multitasking" OS is still something to chuckle about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dchris222 View Post
    The Pre+ is still lacking in the hardware specs and thus can not leverage WebOS they way it was designed/meant to be used. Ya it can open 50 cards, but it has slower ram and processor than the Pre 2 and the experience is lackluster. I am not disputing with you that Palm should have originally put out better hardware to handle WebOs, but I am saying that the Pre2 is a solid foundation on which HP can release other devices that match well with the Iphone and Evo.
    Then why release the Pre2 at all? It seems to be more of a distraction from 'the plan' than an integral step to the future. And a risky distraction to boot given how it looks like a minor refresh of a nearly 2-year-old platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dchris222 View Post
    You must realize that Palm had the design of the Pre 2 done long before HP even bought them, so I believe it is unwise to fault HP. HP has plenty of cash so why not release a device that is ready to go? As I said above, HP has released a solid device that will serve as the ground floor for future devices. Pre 2 is by no means a "super device", but I certainly believe it will offer and nice WebOS experience. CES will showcase what HP has been working on since the merger and the marketing WILL increase. If the 5 or 6 devices released over the next 12 months don't meet anyone's expectations then myself included will blame HP.
    If Palm had a device ready to go "long before HP even bought them," why has it taken over 4 additional months after the takeover to get this thing (nearly) to market? Either Palm really wasn't close to being ready with this device and HP prevented them from releasing it half-baked, or HP's decision processes are unresponsive, perhaps to the point of obstructionism. It seems that neither scenario bodes well for the rapid design and release of new, impressive devices.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Seriously, Mika, why you need to make people know how good is your decission to move to Android?

    A lot of people don't want to move to Android... Unveliebable, isn't it?

    Here some people is happy with webOS, let them in peace.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta
    The provincialism around here is hilarious sometimes.

    I didn't "move to Android". I bought an Epic 4G. I already had a Hero (though it's going to be sold very soon). I still have my Pre. I also have a 32GB iPod Touch. At some point, I may get a WP7 device pending better hardware coming to Sprint and OS improvements. They're not mutually exclusive. If one does not have to limit themselves to one device and platform, why should they? If I had the time and inclination, I would buy a Xbox 360, PS3, and a Wii. Under the same lack of limits, I'd have a Macbook Pro too.

    People around here look at it like sports teams. It's not anything like that. Get the device or devices that work best for you, and go from there. I am somewhat happy with WebOS, even now, so I will keep the Pre to audit 2.0 whenever it dribbles down to us little people on Sprint. I'd fully give any future Palm devices that aren't yet another rehash of the Pre a fair shake.

    I don't want to "move" people to any platform except the one that they like. If you're happy with WebOS and nothing but, great. I was simply responding to hyperbole about WebOS 2.0 that invoked a "true multitasking" use case that is already widely available on other platforms. That doesn't mean I want people to move to Android. No platform is perfect, and no platform is for everyone.
  7. #87  
    Can't we all be friends?!


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  8. #88  
    Wasn't the topic something about the Pre 2 being slow at launching apps? Let's put this thread back on track.
    Last edited by jbg7474; 11/02/2010 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Deleted off topic quote and statements.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  9. cgk
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    #89  
    Can someone explain to me the advantages of this "true Multitasking", I have my cheapo dext (cliq) here and it's currently running

    *Messaging
    * Market
    * Phone
    *facebook
    * Opera

    As I need them I switch between them and use them - how is this different/better on the Pre?
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Can someone explain to me the advantages of this "true Multitasking", I have my cheapo dext (cliq) here and it's currently running

    *Messaging
    * Market
    * Phone
    *facebook
    * Opera

    As I need them I switch between them and use them - how is this different/better on the Pre?
    I haven't really used an android device that much other than a couple of minutes at best buy and an at&t store, but if its like on my iPhone the ui implementation on webos is MUCH nicer and easier.

    One there really isn't a task manager. You see how many cards you have open and close them when your not using them, much like on windows when you have a bunch of windows open you know what you have running and close what you don't want. Two, to switch between the cards is effortless, and if you enable the advanced gesture (long swipe) you can open the browser, open a page and while that page is downloading open another one in the a different card and so forth. Start reading one page, click a link and while that's loading long swipe to the next browser window and read that. Click another link and swipe back while that link is opening and so forth.

    If your the kind of person that usually has multiple windows open when on the computer and constantly switch between them, webos is the perfect transition of that on a mobile phone.
    iPhone 4s 64gb for personal, at&t Prē 3 for business. Best of both worlds.
  11. #91  
    I feel the big difference with multitasking on webOS is the card based interface. I realize you can jump between apps by double tapping the home button on a iOS 4 device. I also realize you can hold the home button or use a multitude of widgets with Android to multitask. However, I personally don't find this as useful or pleasant as jumping between cards on webOS. This is just my opinion though, and I can understand why people could care less.

    Back on topic though. I honestly don't have a problem with application launch times on my OC'd Pre minus (with the exception of Google Maps, ugh). To me I find the smoothness of the overall UI more wanting. I'm hoping this is something webOS 2.0 brings.
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    #92  
    have no one read the reviews that it is getting. I mean even engadget who we all know is in love with a certain company gave it an awesome review and one of the things they were most impressed with was the ui and how fast everything was. They said it was on par with iphone as far as usability and that's huge coming from them. I just don't get why people are still talking aout it being slow?
  13. #93  
    I think this thread may be beyond repair. Tempted to close it. Post on topic if you think it should stay open.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  14.    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I think this thread may be beyond repair. Tempted to close it. Post on topic if you think it should stay open.
    Until we see some new videos of the SFR Pre 2 running apps we already have so we can compare it to an overclocked Pre Plus, I don't think this thread offers us anything further.
  15. #95  
    Wow, are you really complaining of the 2 secs of difference between opening a compiled app (call it PDK, Android, iOS or whatever) and a web-like app like those on webOS? Those few seconds are not a big deal for me and, in the other hand, you get great beneficts like PATCHES, if the apps on webOS were compiled, there wouldn't be patches.

    Also, if those ~2 seconds are a lot of time for you, I offer you a solution: OPEN THE 50 APPS YOU CAN OPEN WITH THE PRE 2, DON'T CLOSE THEM AND THERE YOU ARE, YOU HAVE 50 APPS WHICH WILL OPEN INSTANTLY THE NEXT TIME YOU USE THEM. Don't be so divas.
    Last edited by alvaro_qc; 11/04/2010 at 05:08 PM.
  16. #96  
    I actually thought that it was pretty fast. A little lag is expected but I didn't really see a big one
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I have to agree. The Pre 2/webos 2 press release (lol) only reaffirms i made the right decision to leave.
    Then why are you on here? I used to have a BB and was on crackberry.com a lot. I'm not on there posting comments anymore. Heck I dont even go to the site.

    Maybe you still an inner desire for Palm that you won't admit to having.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by alvaro_qc View Post
    Wow, are you really complaining of the 2 secs of difference between opening a compiled app (call it PDK, Android, iOS or whatever) and a web-like app like those on webOS? Those few seconds are not a big deal for me and, in the other hand, you get great beneficts like PATCHES, if the apps on webOS were compiled, there wouldn't be patches.

    Also, if those ~2 seconds are a lot of time for you, I offer you a solution: OPEN THE 50 APPS YOU CAN OPEN WITH THE PRE 2, DON'T CLOSE THEM AND THERE YOU ARE, YOU HAVE 50 APPS WHICH WILL OPEN INSTANTLY THE NEXT TIME YOU USE THEM. Don't be so divas.
    I think the point isn't so much how fast or slow the apps open as much as how the speed of the apps opening impacts your productivity/user experience. Some folks expect a handheld device to respond instantly: instant on, instant launch, instant switch, etc. Others are willing to wait during launch for a better program experience. Others, still, are okay with slower initial launch and quicker app switching. It's really all in how one chooses to be productive.

    The quick opening app was the hallmark of PalmOS - it's possible many of the negative views regarding Pre app launch speeds comes from those who are used to quick-opening apps. Nothing diva-ish about it at all.
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    #99  
    With webOS I get what I feel is the closest to a desktop experience on my phone. It never bothers me when an app' takes two or three bounces to open on my Mac. It doesn't bother me on my Pre. That being said, I avoid Google Maps like the plague.
    Dave Cook | Fort Myers, Florida | Palm pre | Touchstone | Vaja iVolution Deco
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I think this thread may be beyond repair. Tempted to close it. Post on topic if you think it should stay open.
    I vote to close. This thread has degraded into a "WebOS vs Android" rage-fest. Everything that there is to say about the actual topic has already been said a couple times over.
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