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  1. #41  
    <<Threads merged>>
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  2. #42  
    I was also hoping for auto-focus, and macro. If I'm in a store and want to remember, say a model number of something I'm looking at, I would like to just macro in and take a picture. However, having a 5MP may compensate for no auto-focus/macro. I can take a picture at the not-very-close-distance the camera will focus at and then (because of the high resolution of 5MP) I can zoom in later to see what I need to see. I don't mean digital zoom, which is pretty much useless. I mean zoom in when I later view the picture. Am I making any sense?
    Sharp YO-370 -> HP 200LX -> Palm m125 -> Palm Treo 680 -> Pre 2

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -Albert Einstein
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaudenti View Post
    .... I can take a picture at the not-very-close-distance the camera will focus at and then (because of the high resolution of 5MP) I can zoom in later to see what I need to see. I don't mean digital zoom, which is pretty much useless. I mean zoom in when I later view the picture. Am I making any sense?
    What you are talking about really IS digital zoom. ie selecting a image containing a smaller number of pixels.
    Last edited by johncc; 10/24/2010 at 07:27 AM.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackbird34608 View Post
    Apparently the camera is not capable of autofocus. That sux BIG time.
    There's nothing wrong with a "fixed focus" camera, they have been around for a LONG time. It's not a bad deal really. Think of it as an instamatic. It's a convenience item. I really only see it as a problem with doing macro shots, mostly. But that could be had along with zooming, etc. Now that we have software to do cropping and so on, I worry less about all that stuff. What I do worry about is the overall ratings. The lowly 3mp cam always got excellent reviews for picture quality and downright speed...well once the app finally got itself loaded...(sigh). This was up against 5,8 and higher phone cameras. I think this is going to be one of those. Treo 600 ---> 650 ----> 700 updates. (also think iPhone 3 ---> 3gs). They are just fixing what they have (I hope) with marginal increases. Saves time and money in the long run. The package size and weight is excellent over more clunky (huge) devices. I do wonder why the screen is the same in resolution though. That doesn't seem like a major issue to me.
  5. #45  
    The screen is the same resolution because like it's been said, "The fact that the Pre's screen is small compensates for the low resolution, allowing for a similar PPI on the Pre comparable with that found on the Evo or other 800x480, 4+ inch devices."
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by copasetic View Post
    There's nothing wrong with a "fixed focus" camera, they have been around for a LONG time. It's not a bad deal really. Think of it as an instamatic. It's a convenience item. I really only see it as a problem with doing macro shots, mostly. But that could be had along with zooming, etc. Now that we have software to do cropping and so on, I worry less about all that stuff. What I do worry about is the overall ratings. The lowly 3mp cam always got excellent reviews for picture quality and downright speed...well once the app finally got itself loaded...(sigh). This was up against 5,8 and higher phone cameras. I think this is going to be one of those. Treo 600 ---> 650 ----> 700 updates. (also think iPhone 3 ---> 3gs). They are just fixing what they have (I hope) with marginal increases. Saves time and money in the long run. The package size and weight is excellent over more clunky (huge) devices. I do wonder why the screen is the same in resolution though. That doesn't seem like a major issue to me.
    A realiable bar code scanner app will never happen without an autofocus camera.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    A realiable bar code scanner app will never happen without an autofocus camera.
    That is demonstrably false. It is possible to resolve blurry features by using multiple frames. Beside which, it is also possible to read a slightly blurry barcode.
  8. #48  
    If a Pre is pointed at a small bar code, the result is more than just slightly blurry. I had already done some experiments on how to improve the picture to read bar codes from them. It might work for larger bar codes, but IMO not for the majority which is rather small. That was also the case for QR codes regardless of the redundancy they have built in.

    That however was with the Pre's 3MP. The 5MP on good light may be able to capture a distant bar code in sufficient resolution which the 3MP did not, however the typical algorithms used in smartphone bar code readers do not expect the bar code to be hidden somewhere in a picture but assume that they cover the whole frame.

    So unless someone puts some serious effort in improving those algorithms (and I really mean doing, not only speculating about it) I don't see usable bar code recognition happen without close focus ability.
  9. #49  
    as I've said hndreds of times I have no problem barcode scanning on an ipod touch with a low res camera however would like to test it out to prove it. But give me an example of what to scan that is "too small" I'll make a video and post it on youtube.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    That is demonstrably false. It is possible to resolve blurry features by using multiple frames. Beside which, it is also possible to read a slightly blurry barcode.
    Please re-read...a reliable.

    I can put up my evo's camera to any barcode an within 2-3 seconds it focuses itself and reads the code without me even having to touch a button.

    WHen i had the bar code app on my Pre it struggled to read any bar code.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    as I've said hndreds of times I have no problem barcode scanning on an ipod touch with a low res camera however would like to test it out to prove it. But give me an example of what to scan that is "too small" I'll make a video and post it on youtube.
    Exactly. Heck I can do decent barcodes on my Palm Centro! I think it's something to do with the software in the Pre (or the software for the camera that isn't there yet?). Besides, I am not aware of any current "phone" on the market (other than that Sony) with an autofocus camera, or an optical zoom for that matter. Both require motors/moving parts...
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by copasetic View Post
    Besides, I am not aware of any current "phone" on the market (other than that Sony) with an autofocus camera, or an optical zoom for that matter. Both require motors/moving parts...
    Droid, Droid 2, Droid X, EVO to name a few. I'm sure there are many others.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Please re-read...a reliable.

    I can put up my evo's camera to any barcode an within 2-3 seconds it focuses itself and reads the code without me even having to touch a button.

    WHen i had the bar code app on my Pre it struggled to read any bar code.
    I saw the word "reliable" and I still disagree. Without question, autofocus makes it easier. But you said it was not possible to make a reliable bar code reader without autofocus, and I disagree with that statement.

    It is likely nearly impossible on the Pre because you have neither autofocus nor low-level api access to the camera to perform the kinds of multi-frame tricks that would make it easy for someone with decent knowledge of video/image processing to create the app. This may change with webOS 2.0.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  14. #54  
    True...i guess it remains to be seen.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by copasetic View Post
    Exactly. Heck I can do decent barcodes on my Palm Centro! I think it's something to do with the software in the Pre (or the software for the camera that isn't there yet?). Besides, I am not aware of any current "phone" on the market (other than that Sony) with an autofocus camera, or an optical zoom for that matter. Both require motors/moving parts...
    You don't need motors/moving parts for auto focus. Optical zoom yes....but there isn't a major phone out that has optical zoom.

    But the phones like to make sounds like they have moving parts.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    You don't need motors/moving parts for auto focus. ...
    Are you sure about that?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    Are you sure about that?
    Well if we pick hairs here...no...but many smartphones today have an "auto focus" camera. My Evo, where ever i touch on the screen, the phone will focus on that spot.

    If its software based autofocus it works damn well. For instance...imagine trying to take a close up picture like so:




    So whether software auto focus is simply "faking" it doesn't matter to me, as its works much better than the fixed focus camera of the Pre. Which in turn, makes its ability to have as fast and reliable bar code reader imopssible.

    (unless i'm proven wrong. Honestly, use the android bar code scanner... and you'll understand what i'm referring to.)
    But regardless, the camera was always good for normal pictures with the Pre and that should remain. Just give it more options and settings please.
  18. #58  
    I've been doing some research into autofocus on cell phones. I discovered that the autofocus camera on the iPhone 3GS was made by a company called OmniVision (reference).

    OmniVision calls their autofocus capability TrueFocus. Here's a .

    I assume that other recent cell phones with autofocus are using something similar.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  19. #59  
    Good find. I was trying to find information about it.
  20. #60  
    so can anybody with a pre 2 make a macro picture of an usual letter or a barcode or something and post it here?
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