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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by artitumis View Post
    Thankfully they are still YEARS off from that decision. The oldest is 3.
    maybe not that far off-- based on some's parenting!
  2. Habious's Avatar
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    #42  
    I still can't get over how we're talking about giving a 12-year-old boy unlimited, unfettered, unfiltered, unmonitored Internet access.

    This is WAY beyond a Playboy in the treehouse.

    Even if you trust your child...and you're thoroughly convinced he's "not that kind of kid"...$100.00 says that at least one of his friends is.

    "Hey Shawn, is that the new Pixi? Dude, give it here for a minute!"

    Tap....tap tap...click, click, click click....

    <snicker>

    "Hey Shawn, check THIS out!"



    And now your son knows that "scat" isn't just an odd form of singing style.
  3. djmcgee's Avatar
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    #43  
    I am going to chime in. I am by no means progressive in my attitudes about raising children and my oldest is 14.

    Habious, in your scenario you are assuming Shawn's friend doesn't have unfiltered internet access at home. Many kids do and many parents don't monitor what their kids do.

    I'm not saying your wrong in your thoughts but Dude the world is way beyond a Playboy in the tree house.

    I however would not give a 12 yo unfiltered access to the internet in my home and I would work towards him (or her) understanding that ****ography is a sin and just one of many slippery slopes that can lead to self destruction.

    I know, I know, we all looked at playboys when we were kids and we turned out ok. That was then and this is now and it is a war. Thinking any differently just puts your children at risk. Remember also that you will never stop them from looking if they want to look - the issue is bigger than the looking.

    Oh yes, Sprint allows content filtering.
    Last edited by djmcgee; 01/26/2010 at 01:37 PM.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by djmcgee View Post
    I am going to chime in. I am by no means progressive in my attitudes about raising children and my oldest is 14.

    Habious, in your scenario you are assuming Shawn's friend doesn't have unfiltered internet access at home. Many kids do and many parents don't monitor what their kids do.

    I'm not saying your wrong in your thoughts but Dude the world is way beyond a Playboy in the tree house.

    I however would not give a 12 yo unfiltered access to the internet in my home and I would work towards him (or her) understanding that ****ography is a sin and just one of many slippery slopes that can lead to self destruction.

    I know, I know, we all looked at playboys when we were kids and we turned out ok. That was then and this is now and it is a war. Thinking any differently just puts your children at risk. Remember also that you will never stop them from looking if they want to look - the issue is bigger than the looking.

    Oh yes, Sprint allows content filtering.
    I'm gonna chime in as well on this. I'm 18, and had fully unfiltered and unsupervised access to the internet. Heck, my parents put a computer in my room when I was 6 with a dial-up connection! Now I guess it all depends on the child, but my parents never had issues with it. In my case, it built up a sense of trust that my parents trusted me with such things. Now, I never have been into the whole looking at **** thing, so maybe I'm an exception. I used the internet like a HUGE book. Still do that today! Pretty much Google every question I have(including that "How Children are Born" question, which I remember finding disgusting as a 10 year old...)

    Anywho, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is a double-edged sword. The internet is an godly portal of information both good and bad, and in my case, my parents decided not to sift through the information for me, and I think I turned out relatively well. I'm 18, a junior at UCI in Business/Computer Science, and part of that is because of my unfiltered/unmonitored time I got to spend with computers and the internet as a whole. Not here to tell anyone how to parent though, but I figure a kid's perspective who's grown up with this sinly unfiltered internet connection you speak of should chime in.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by artitumis View Post
    NOW GET OFF MY LAWN! Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Being serious, you have a great point. I had a Nokia black & white screen phone from my parents that was used only to call them when I was in high school and didn't even have a cell phone the first two years I was in the Marine Corps.

    I see really young kids with cell phones and I shake my head. I can understand in some ways, others I can't. If they are very involved with church, school, etc it makes it so much easier on the parents. On the other hand it makes me think they are spoiled and do they really need that crap? I am really torn about what I'm going to do about cell phones for my kids. Thankfully they are still YEARS off from that decision. The oldest is 3.
    You forgot "YOU CRAZY KIDS AND YOUR ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC!"

    I said it before... I've seen many posts over the years, of people stating they won't pay, or can't afford $500 for a phone, or selling their's off because they overspent, or had bills to pay and needed cash. We've all had to wait to buy things, or passed on opportunities because we didn't have the money, or it was just fiscally irresponsible.

    But, now they are just a cheap commodity, so who cares, right? It stands to reason... how can we expect our kids to value things, if we have so quickly forgotten the value of them, ourselves?

    Whomever wants to hand their 12 year old a phone that they (themselves) MIGHT not have been able to afford or cost justify for their own use, just a year or so ago, is going to do it without remorse.

    To me, if you wouldn't buy your 12 year old a $350 to $550 wrist watch, why would you buy him a phone of equal value?

    They might be the same parents that would buy their kid a fancy car for graduation. Something else, I will never understand.

    The reality is, it's a difference of ideology, and we are never all going to see eye to eye on this. And this thread can and, will go round and round about it forever.
    Last edited by pelikan3; 01/27/2010 at 09:11 PM.
  6. #46  
    My 12yr old has a Pre, and he loves it. He is responsible and I have and will read texts and check History of page visited. I have taken the phone out of his hands and "skimmed" what was being typed ( after a giggle ). I think the big picture is trust your kids until they screw up.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by liv4rc51 View Post
    My 12yr old has a Pre, and he loves it. He is responsible and I have and will read texts and check History of page visited. I have taken the phone out of his hands and "skimmed" what was being typed ( after a giggle ). I think the big picture is trust your kids until they screw up.
    But, what about the age-appropriateness of such an item, let alone such an EXPENSIVE item? Age appropriateness has absolutely nothing to do with your specific child's intelligence, understanding, maturity or trustworthiness. It's 100% about time-in-grade. Most martial arts schools wouldn't award a kid a black belt under the age of 16, even if he had the skills at age 12, because it's not considered age-appropriate --no exceptions.

    A $50 iPod shuffle, seems age-appropriate for a 12 year old. A $500 Palm Pre is more appropriate for a corporate IT consultant, even if it may have only cost you $99.

    And, why does a 12 year old even need their own cell phone? They should never be where they would need one (i.e., school, monitored activities, actually with their friends instead of calling or texting them). And, if that rare occasion does occur... a basic, household "loaner phone" to give them for those occasions alone, so they can call you, or you can call them, should do just fine.

    This thread has totally changed my mind about the benefits of Sprints new discounting to customers. It should never have happened. Then, all the adults would still be paying $399 to $599 list prices for their own smartphones. Then there would be no question about why it's not age appropriate for a 12 year old (or 14 year old, or 16 year old) to have one. It wouldn't even have been a consideration and this wouldn't even have been a topic.
    Last edited by pelikan3; 01/28/2010 at 07:22 PM.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    But, what about the age-appropriateness of such an item? Age appropriateness has absolutely nothing to do with your specific child's intelligence, understanding, maturity or trustworthiness. It's 100% about time-in-grade. Most martial arts schools wouldn't award a kid a black belt under the age of 16, even if he had the skills at age 12, because it's not considered age-appropriate --no exceptions.

    A $50 iPod shuffle, seems age-appropriate for a 12 year old. A $500 Palm Pre is more appropriate for a corporate IT consultant, even if it may have only cost you $99.

    And, why does a 12 year old even need their own cell phone? They should never be where they would need one (i.e., school, monitored activities, with friends instead of calling or texting them). And, if that rare occasion does occur, having a basic, household "loaner phone" to give them for those occasion alone, so they can call you, or you can call them, should do just fine.

    This thread has totally changed my mind about the benefits of Sprints new discounting to customers. It should never have happened. Then, all the adults would be paying full price for their smartphones, just like I did, and understand the value of these phones, and there would be no question about why it's not age appropriate for a 12 year old to have one.
    So you're saying that no cellular company should subsidize the cost of their equipment to gain subscribers and overall, lower the price barrier for many of an American that can't afford those smartphones or even normal phones? Theres a good chunk of the population that would never even consider a smartphone if it weren't for subsidized pricing. Now you're just being myopic.
  9. #49  
    I've been reading this thread, and its been fun...I think its important to realize that everyone's values & opinions are their own and theirs' alone. No one else's, so its important to realize that what folks might think is appropriate or inappropriate is going to vary widely.

    I have a 12 yo son as well. He has a Pre...I (Dad) have a Pixi. We follow the Six Pillar's of Character (Trustworthiness, Respect, Responsibility, Fairness, Caring, Citizenship) that our school has adopted...they're posted on our refrigerator, and it is what is expected of all family members. (With God above all things.)

    My children have 1 job, and 1 job only, School. (Ok, they have home responsibilities, etc.) They do not get an allowance, we do not pay for grades.

    He earned his Pre through hard work in school, getting A's & B's and living up to the expectations of our family. He has earned his Pre, and I was proud to reward him for his hard work. He earned it, it was not given to him.

    I'm not naive, I know there are a 1000 ways for him to access inappropriate content...and the Pre is the least of my concerns. (I'm personally more worried about Internet, XBOX Live, Runescape, etc...which IS closely monitored & locked down.)

    He's exceptionally careful with it, which I might add, is a huge lesson in responsibility in how to care for things that are valuable to him...and, he's not all that interested in texting...or phone calls...its a status symbol to him...something that he's proud of, and I for one, am happy with how he's taken care with it.

    So...yeah, I'm all for him having one.

    Now...if my daughter continues to act like her mother...she'll earn a Motorola StarTac, and be lucky if the battery is included...

    (I worry about the kids who all of a sudden turn 18, go to college and are suddenly 'free' to do whatever the heck they want b/c over-oppressive parents can no longer control them...they're the ones I worry about.)
    Last edited by dorelse; 01/28/2010 at 10:57 PM.
    Re vera, potas bene.
  10. gottria's Avatar
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       #50  
    Dang, this is getting interesting. So I guess I'm a bad parrent for getting my 12 year old a Pixi, sorry we upgraded it to a Pre cause it was the same price. I'm sure that will be another 3 pages of flames.

    Dorelse, well said my friend, thanks. We have a lot of the same views.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by dorelse View Post
    (I'm personally more worried about Internet, XBOX Live, Runescape, etc...which IS closely monitored & locked down.)
    oooooooooh man, Live is BRUTAL. and the funny thing is is that the tweens have the WORST mouths on there. when you ask them where there parent's are, it's always some answer that falls in line with a broken home or ignorant parents.

    one time i actually got a kids mom on the mic, and while i know it wont change anything, it was fun to tell her what a piece of trash she raised.



    (I worry about the kids who all of a sudden turn 18, go to college and are suddenly 'free' to do whatever the heck they want b/c over-oppressive parents can no longer control them...they're the ones I worry about.)
    EXACTLY! i like to think that i have a high set of morals, and some of the things that i practice get a lot of raised eyebrows, especially in my age group. BUT, growing up, i wasn't on a leash. if i wanted to go out and be a heathen, i probably could have gotten away with it. but i didnt because my parents laid a fantastic groundwork when i was a child.

    and as far as this cost of the device talk goes. when i was 12, my bicycle (as well as all of my friends) cost around 5 or 6 hundred dollars. a far cry from the Wal Mart Huffy's. it was a birthday present so no, i didnt wash it. heck, i didnt even get an allowance. i WASHED that thing every week along with doing maintenance on it. i would still have it today if i didnt get hit by a car while on it. point being, if the household can afford it AND the kid has a grasp on price gaps between products, then go for it.

    today, i still APPRECIATE and do not take for granted nicer things.
  12. #52  
    To be honest, I'm not worried about them having access to the web, or how smart, moral, or trustworthy they are. I'm not even worried about how well they care for their devices.

    I work hard as adult, put my responsibilities and family first, and, in doing so, earn the right to buy my phones and smartphones, WHEN I can afford them. Since my tenure with Sprint predates ALL discounts, I have paid full price for every device except the Pre (about $2000 in hardware over about 12 years). It DOES NOT bother me that other grownups have not had to pay what I paid. It DOES bother me very much that they are just handing them to their kids, like it was no big deal. I honestly never saw that coming. What's next? Brand new Mustangs and Mercedes for graduation? Because that's how it comes across.

    But, I'm NOT going to win this, I realize that. No parent is going to say, "He's right! What was I thinking! Son, I'm sorry, but I have to ask for the phone back." So, give me SOME peace of mind with your honest answers to my next question...

    If there were NO discounts, would you STILL see it the same way? Would you still have bought those phones for your 12 year old, or similarly-aged kid, if they actually cost you $350-$550 out of your pocket?

    Thanks for participating.
    Last edited by pelikan3; 01/29/2010 at 05:10 PM.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    To be honest, I'm not worried about them having access to the web, or how smart, moral, or trustworthy they are. I'm not even worried about how well they care for their devices.

    I DO care that, as a full-grown adult with a family and responbsibilities, I have had to work really hard to earn my living. I have paid full price for all my smartphones (or lived without them when other responsibilities took precedence), and now, parents are just giving them to their young kids, and don't see why that's a problem. What's next, a brand new Mustang or Mercedes when they get ready to drive?

    But I realize I am fighting a losing battle. There are far too many parents on this thread who have no problem with giving their very responsible 12 year olds something that I believe, as a right of passage, should be earned yourself when you are much older. It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers".

    But, I'm not going to win. No parents are going to say, "He's right! What was I thinking! Son, I'm sorry, but I have to ask for the phone back." So give me SOME peace of mind with your honest answers to my next question... If there were NO discounts, would you STILL see it the same way? Would you still have bought those phones for your 12 year old, or similarly-aged kid, if they actually cost you $350-$550 out of your pocket? Would you still be father-and-son, WebOS buddies?

    Thanks for participating.
    Sorry, that's not a valid question because it's not a $500 phone. A few years back I paid $200 for a subsidized Fusic on Sprint, now they aren't worth anything. So in your logic because at one time unsubsidized it was a $500 phone I shouldn't give it to my children. If my child truly wanted the Pre and I had an extra $500 to spend on it, yes I would give it to either or both of my boys at 12. This is an honest answer. If I can afford something and I believe my child will be responsible with it I give it to them.

    You need to stop trying to force your own parental values on others and realize everyone has to decide for themselves what is right and wrong for their children. Just because a 12 year old is given a smart phone doesn't mean he/she will not learn the value of a dollar.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by thekarens View Post
    Sorry, that's not a valid question because it's not a $500 phone. A few years back I paid $200 for a subsidized Fusic on Sprint, now they aren't worth anything. So in your logic because at one time unsubsidized it was a $500 phone I shouldn't give it to my children. If my child truly wanted the Pre and I had an extra $500 to spend on it, yes I would give it to either or both of my boys at 12. This is an honest answer. If I can afford something and I believe my child will be responsible with it I give it to them.

    You need to stop trying to force your own parental values on others and realize everyone has to decide for themselves what is right and wrong for their children. Just because a 12 year old is given a smart phone doesn't mean he/she will not learn the value of a dollar.
    To be fair, the Pre IS a $500 phone. As early as June, if you weren't a new customer, or hadn't satisfied Sprint's requirements for new customer pricing, you paid $550. Suggesting it's not, is like suggesting that a Rolex isn't a $2000+ watch, just because you got it half off, or won it in a contest. And I don't think you should give your child a Rolex, either, even if you didn't pay for it and you have two.

    I guess I'm just in a huge state of culture shock. I never thought I would meet this many parents, willing to put devices of this value, in the hands of very young children, insist on their maturity, trustworthiness, understanding of value, etc, and talk to ME about how I shouldn't impose my views on parenting. It's a VERY different world than the one I grew up in, and I grew up in a VERY liberal, trusting, environment and community.

    So, I guess some of us will have to agree to disagree. I appreciate you answering honestly. I don't understand it, but I appreciate you telling me.

    I can't wait for another 8 years to pass, when my son actually turns 12. I'm going to be in for a very rude awakening. And so is he. I better enjoy him now, while he still likes me.

    Last edited by pelikan3; 01/29/2010 at 06:29 PM.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    I can't wait for another 8 years to pass, when my son actually turns 12. I'm going to be in for a very rude awakening. And so is he. I better enjoy him now, while he still likes me.
    pelikan - I want you to know that I totally respect your view on this...but you have completed your own thought...

    8 years ago, when my son was 4, I would have thought the exact same thing, however...I think you need time and the perspective that another 8 years will bring. I say that not to insult you or anything of the sort...but to only say, that I know where you stand, I've been there.

    And...if it makes you feel any better, 12 is a great age! I love it, he's growing up, learning to be his own man, yet still believes the world is at his fingertips...and it is. BTW, the world of a 7th grader isn't so scary, my son doesn't hate his parents, although, they get annoyed with us! But, we have a great relationship. We golf, ski (water & snow), xbox, fish, swap phones, Mindstorms, etc, etc...they're their own person at 12, still absolutely need rules & boundaries, but they need room to breathe as well...to developer their own interests with their friends.

    The thing I want you to think about, is how quickly time flies, 8 years ago, he was trading Pokemon cards with the other little kids, now, he's less than 2 years away from his learners permit, and in 4 years will be looking at colleges...so yes...enjoy it...but, 12 isn't scary...you grow with them...its a slow transition, so enjoy.

    Anyway...that's how I see it...
    Last edited by dorelse; 01/30/2010 at 12:26 AM.
    Re vera, potas bene.
  16. #56  
    guess ur 12 year old is not getting flash =O
  17. #57  
    The Pixi is a great phone for a 12 year old! He will have full internet access and all the **** and other great stuff out there......(We need parental controls!)
  18. #58  
    Yes it is. I got my daughter a Pixi too as an alternative to one of those "gaming only" expensive cartridge handhelds, but took it back when I discovered all the cool games that she could play were only on the Pre (augh, the Pixi has 3D too, sheesh!). Fortunately the BOGO offer was changed to include the Pre, so the store did a complete refund on both, and I repurchased. She has the same as me now
  19. #59  
    If the 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old has a phone, which hand do they carry the school books in?
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Finally Pre View Post
    If the 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old has a phone, which hand do they carry the school books in?
    In their backpack!
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