Why IMAP vs POP3...

[Chatter]

It's been a while since this particular topic has appeared, so I thought I'd reprise some of what I've written before. Since Chatter has supported both for quite a while, this isn't at all an attempt to promote Chatter, but rather to answer questions that I seem to get every day in my email and that appear here frequently as well.

Advantages of IMAP

1. IMAP is far, far faster than POP3 and uses far less data; this is particularly true for large mailboxes. For example, just determining which messages need to be downloaded and/or deleted in a POP3 mailbox with 1000 messages would typically require 100k of data to be transferred; with IMAP, this would be closer to 8K. Also, loading, say the first 5 lines of an email would typically take 5x or more as much data as with IMAP. Doing a "load more" of a POP3 message requires 1) a full sync - the part that takes 100k for a 1000 message mailbox, plus 2) reloading everything in the message from prior to the "load more". With IMAP, only the "more" part gets loaded; this is a HUGE savings.

2. IMAP is far, far more efficient at dealing with attachments. To even determine whether attachments exist, the entire message must be loaded (a horrible example would be the case of a 1k attachment following a 1MB attachment; in POP3, you wouldn't even know the 1k attachment existed until reading the entire 1MB attachment). In IMAP, attachments are known completely at the outset and each can be loaded independently.

3. IMAP keeps state information on messages - replied, seen, flagged; none of this is possible on POP3. Read a message on your Treo and it appears read in Outlook back at home, or in the office.

4. IMAP allows unlimited nested folders that appear on every client; in POP3, folders are local - messages "filed" in this way on one device can't be seen on any other device.

5. IMAP allows true push operation; POP3 does not. (Most IMAP servers support this, including AOL/AIM)

6. IMAP allows mailboxes to be completely sync'ed, so that changes made on one device are reflected on the other; no more worries about "where" a message lives (this is akin to webmail). With POP3, it's hard to know whether a message read on one device will even be available to another device (especially with Gmail!).

7. IMAP allows sent mail to be uploaded back to the server, so you can keep your sent mail in one place; POP has no such facility.

8. IMAP is relatively inexpensive, $20/yr or less in many cases. (I happen to offer an account like this with 6 months free to start). Some are "free", like AIM.

9. Most POP3 accounts allow forwarding to IMAP (GMail and Yahoo come to mind); used this way, you get all the advantages of IMAP while keeping those old addresses. Many (everyone.net, fastmail.fm, and fusemail.com) even allow you to use your POP3 return address, so that replies appear to come from the original address!

10. IMAP is supported by all major PC/Mac clients - Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Mac Mail, Entourage, Pine, etc...

I'm sure there's more, but this is a good start...

[vikingjunior]

As someone who tried Chatter with POP and hated it and then switched to IMAP and loved it, I agree with Marc Imap is the way to go. I would even take it one step farther and get yourself your own domain name for $6 a year. Then you can take your name to any backend server you dam well please.

[Chatter]

That's a TERRIFIC point, regardless of IMAP vs POP3. If you get your own domain, you can get it hosted anywhere and move it whenever required; then, have your existing mail forwarded to the new address and over time migrate your contacts to using the new address.

Marc

[khaytsus]

I think a better question is..

Why does Chatter hard-loop my Treo the last two times I've tried it? Back before 1.0 and since, both times it crashed collecting email, then loops forever, including after warm and cold (pulling the battery) resets.

Spam for a frightenly bad program is bad for everyone.

Oh, so I'm not off topic, everyone should use IMAP of course.

[ShannonElements]

Originally Posted by khaytsus

I think a better question is..

Why does Chatter hard-loop my Treo the last two times I've tried it? Back before 1.0 and since, both times it crashed collecting email, then loops forever, including after warm and cold (pulling the battery) resets.

Spam for a frightenly bad program is bad for everyone.

Oh, so I'm not off topic, everyone should use IMAP of course.

You probably have another program running that conflicts with Chatter which is causing the crashes. Chatter has been nothing but stable for me, and even now I'm using a beta. I would hardly call it a "frightenly bad program", nor should this post be considered "spam" for it. IMAP is indeed far superior to POP, and there are a lot of good points here that will help to improve your mobile email experience, whether it be with Chatter, Snapper, or Versamail(or any mail app, for that matter).

[Chatter]

khaytsus -

Maybe because you're a ***** and you deserve it?

Marc

[Insertion]

You'll probably regret saying that after awhile, but after such a classless post, I don't blame you at all Marc.

[ShannonElements]

Originally Posted by Chatter

khaytsus -

Maybe because you're a ***** and you deserve it?

Marc

I don't say 'lol' very often(at all, actually), but that did indeed make me laugh out loud

[Chatter]

I just don't get it... I spend 80% of my time working with users - helping with advice, configuration issues, replying to suggestions and comments and, yes, sometimes working through bugs; I also post frequently here, and not always related to Chatter. I answer most mail very quickly (often within minutes) and I work with everyone who has a problem (the vast majority of the time it's not even a Chatter bug). If kahtysus has had problems, I'd expect him to do the responsible thing and give me a chance to help with it, rather than to post maliciously (and inappropriately) in this sort of topic. Ah, well!

Marc

[Chatter]

BTW, I wonder if anyone else will find this post as amusing as I do...

08/18/2005, 05:34 PM #2
khaytsus
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Chatter does not reset for me.. Sounds like you have something else bad on your system if it is doing so. Most times the application blamed in the crash report is the one which had its' databases ripped out from under it, not necessarily the one that *caused* the problem.
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[vikingjunior]

That was great.... Good for you Marc

[twitch3]

Originally Posted by khaytsus

I think a better question is..

Why does Chatter hard-loop my Treo the last two times I've tried it? Back before 1.0 and since, both times it crashed collecting email, then loops forever, including after warm and cold (pulling the battery) resets.

Spam for a frightenly bad program is bad for everyone.

Oh, so I'm not off topic, everyone should use IMAP of course.

If you can't say something positive or at least use constructive criticism instead of cheap shots, get the hell out. BTW, what's a hard loop? Maybe you should put it down and walk away.

[ShannonElements]

Originally Posted by twitch3

If you can't say something positive or at least use constructive criticism instead of cheap shots, get the hell out. BTW, what's a hard loop? Maybe you should put it down and walk away.

What, you don't know? A hard-loop is a fruit loop that's gone stale...

[t2gungho]

All very good points Marc. (Now I just wish Gmail would go to imap!!!!)

[twitch3]

Originally Posted by ShannonElements

What, you don't know? A hard-loop is a fruit loop that's gone stale...

Guess you have to like cheesecake to think up that.

[khaytsus]

Originally Posted by Chatter

BTW, I wonder if anyone else will find this post as amusing as I do...

08/18/2005, 05:34 PM #2
khaytsus
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 962

Chatter does not reset for me.. Sounds like you have something else bad on your system if it is doing so. Most times the application blamed in the crash report is the one which had its' databases ripped out from under it, not necessarily the one that *caused* the problem.
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Unlimited Photo Opennap-ng Khayts.us t

Yep, that was 9 months ago, on a much older version of Chatter. It worked reasonably well then, I forget which version. Then I by accident one day moved Chatter to the SD card (simple accident in ZLauncher) and sent everything into a tizzy, starting another hard loop.

Obviously hard loop refers to a reset loop that does not end.. Ever. Warm reset will stop it, but as soon as I do *anything* it resets again. So a hard loop = a reset loop that requires a hard reset to escape from. I'm not an idiot, if I have to hard reset, I *had* to.

Since I'm a *****, look on your forum Marc, and see the comments I've put there. Some helpful, some bug reports, some suggestions. THe bug reports from you are typically not helpful, including the report of the hard loop above. Let me look up your response to it.

Odd, post doesn't seem to exist any longer. I'll not make any assumptions about why that is.

Yeah, fine, I've been a ***** about Chatter. Good jab, your point. It's caused me to do a hard reset the last two times I've tried it, including again about two weeks ago when I tried the latest version. I guess I've griped about it enough, I'll stop. I think you should have been a little more eloquent in your manner, perhaps more along the lines of working with me to discover WHY it goes into a hard reset loop, but sure, whatever.

BTW, your post was spam. Otherwise I wouldn't have even commented. In your own forum, that would have been fine (besides the fact I don't have a reason to read it), etc.

[Chatter]

I stand by my original reply. This post is as wrong-headed as the original - and the implication that I deleted a negative post simply demontrates again (as though it were needed) what a ***** you are ... I have NEVER deleted a post, just as I've never intentionally walked away from a support issue.
Indeed, I often spend hours with individuals on their problems, even though typically the problem ends up having nothing to do with Chatter.

Marc

p.s. My post was NOTspam, or at least the moderator didn't think so. He made it sticky, after all... You must be smarter than he is, though, right? Or maybe he has an agenda and you don't... .

[ShannonElements]

Originally Posted by khaytsus

Yep, that was 9 months ago, on a much older version of Chatter. It worked reasonably well then, I forget which version. Then I by accident one day moved Chatter to the SD card (simple accident in ZLauncher) and sent everything into a tizzy, starting another hard loop.

BTW, your post was spam. Otherwise I wouldn't have even commented. In your own forum, that would have been fine (besides the fact I don't have a reason to read it), etc.

Well, if the problem started when you accidentally moved Chatter to your card, one might assume that's probably where the problem still lies. Maybe you have a necessary file still on the card or something? I would try completely uninstalling any trace of Chatter from both your RAM and your card, and then reinstalling the latest version(to your RAM of course). Also, you could always go with the tried-and-true hard reset/reinstall method. If Chatter still resets your phone right after a hard reset, chances are it's a problem with your phone and not Chatter. If Chatter works fine then maybe it was interference from another app, or a missing Chatter file or something. I know that whenever I put Verichat on my card, and then move it back to RAM there's a file missing and I can't use it. Maybe you're having a similar problem with Chatter.

I have to disagree about this post being spam. Like I said earlier, this info will prove useful to ANYONE who has ANY mobile email app. So you only comment on posts you believe to be spam?

[LouisW]

Currently, I run with fastmail - I am a full account using about 250mb on the server for mail.

I want to get my own domain, and have someone host it. What do people recommend. I would want IMAP with some good spam protection and filtering into folders.

Anyone have any suggestions.

It seems that for fastmail to host, I would need to really upgrade to an enhanced account.

[khaytsus]

Originally Posted by ShannonElements

Well, if the problem started when you accidentally moved Chatter to your card, one might assume that's probably where the problem still lies. Maybe you have a necessary file still on the card or something? I would try completely uninstalling any trace of Chatter from both your RAM and your card

Not the issue.. I had long ago done that. Yes, the first time was partially my mistake, but why did it loop forever the way it did? Something along the lines of a mailbox being missing, then it'd reset.

This more recent time it simply crashed while retrieving mail the first time (perhaps doing a mail sending test.... I can't remember) and looped from there until I did a hard reset.