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  1.    #1  
    Am I crazy or did I just downgrade by ditching my 600? You decide....

    I'm trying to be logical about this. If someone had asked me if I would give up all of the following functions that were working so smoothly on my 600, I would have told them to go jump in the lake. Why am I trying so hard to make this work. Is it because I like a challenge? Perhaps it's because I bought it and dammit I will make this thing do what I need? Or maybe because, gulp, I must be a gearwhore and need to have this "neato-keeno" next model? Whatever it is, the logical part of me says take it back now and quit wasting time on this P.O.S. (and I don't mean PalmOS), but the gearwhore in me is compelled to keep spending time and money on hacks and apps trying to get it to do what an older product did.....better. I think I need to see a shrink. After working with this thing for a few days now, here are some of the differences I have observed in trying to transition from the 600 to the 650.


    *I have lost the ability to conference call with more than two lines.

    *I can't hang up on an individual caller in call waiting nor in conference calling.

    *I've lost my most-used button function: the "P" button, which, for some inexplicable reason has been replaced with a button that hangs up on my phone calls. Actually, of all the places they could have placed a shutoff button, they could not possibly have chosen a more unintuitive button on the whole Treo (it is THE workhorse button position to MILLIONS of T600 afficionados).

    *Previously, if my T600 crashed more than once in a month I would OCD over what I might have done to cause it. Now, if this 650 goes for half a day without crashing I feel like I've won some sort of prize or something. Why am I putting up with THAT?

    *...and, when it freezes up, I can't just slide out my stylus anymore and stick it in the little hole on the back and quickly restore everything just the way it was. NO... I have to remove a battery cover that must be every arthritis-sufferer's nightmare (what, did they use a Rubik's Cube for a model for that thing?) and fumble around attempting to stab a decoy hole or two before finding a retarded-feeling reset hole that doesn't really give that reassuring 'click' letting you know that you did it just right.

    *I've also got a situation now where when the battery runs out I can't just put the new one in and start where I left off. Switching the battery makes the unit completely reset, with the attendant waiting time to reboot, having to hit several buttons for keyguard, password re-entry, restart the phone function, etc., etc. This is not a small thing. This is STUPID.

    *I have apparently given up more than 50% of my battery life. With my 600 and attached battery pack, the piggybacked battery would drain down to 0 if I had to work very late at night. What was cool is it seamlessly transitioned over to the internal battery without me doing anything, so I wouldn't even notice, other than once-in-a-while when I would see the external was at zero and my internal was at 60-80% after a sixteen hour workday. Now, in addition to having to buy a spare battery, I have no place to put it. When it was piggybacked I never had to give it a second thought or chance losing it. Now what do I do? I need the assurance with me all the time, so do I have to start carrying it in a protective bag in my pocket? How the heck am I going to keep track of that? I can't even keep track of my wristwatch and that's usually on my wrist.

    *I've already used up more memory with this unit than I had used with the 600, and I haven't even installed all of the stuff I had on my 600 yet. How the crap is that possible if they're both Palm OS's and one's supposed to be an improvement over the other?

    *I have noticed absolutely zero difference in retrieval or operating speed, even though the 650 is supposed to be a faster processor.

    *At least I haven't lost anything with the camera. They both suck.

    *I frequently need to keep a memo open while talking to someone, and after a minute or two the 650 assumes I'm done and AUTOMATICALLY switches back to the phone app. Whose bright idea was it to change that??!! Were they on drugs? The first couple times it happened I thought I had a short or something. Now I have to tell my party to hold on while I try to figure out where I was and try to get back. If I'm in the middle of building a note on a new entry for someone I've just met on the phone...that creates some embarrassing issues.

    *I am completely dumbfounded that the quick keys only work from one application on the 650: the phone app. What could they have possibly accomplished by changing this?

    *The menu button is impotent when the phone is off. What up with that? If it worked fine on the 600, why would it be disabled on the next iteration of the model?

    *I used to be able to highlight a previous call in the log and press the 600's center button to redial. Now I have press the UP arrow BEFORE I can even press the DOWN arrow to scroll. If I want to call the most recent number in the log I have to remember to hit the left arrow TWO times to skip over a cancel option and a totals option before I can press the button to make the call. Sure I can do last number redial if I remember to go to Phone function first and hold down the phone button. The point is, that's one more intuitive function in the call log that was taken away and another thing to remember NOT to do.

    The unfortunate thing is, if I had known last week what I know now, I would never have opened this door. And just as unfortunately, I can't go back to exactly the way it was. I have forever lost some data as a result of technicians trying to "help" me with these issues. Some of my data is permanently altered. I cancelled a grandfathered phone plan with TMobile so I could use the 650 with the supposedly faster and better Verizon unlimited plan/wireless sync network. Niether of which has turned out to be what they promised. I'm REALLY ticked that I gave up the 1.5 cent per minute nationwide plan I started with TMobile in 1996 that they could never change on me.

    How did Palm sell this 650 so effectively to all of us? I'm beginning to think the emperor has no clothes. It must be the sequel effect. You know, the phenomenon where, for example, the Matrix was SOOO good that we all went ahead and spent more money on TWO more installments even though each was successively stupider than the previous. Why do we do that? Why don't we just keep our money and cut our losses? I'm still in the process of trying to figure that out about myself. While I'm trying to do that I have eight days left to find a good reason not to go and get my money back.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by xpdnc
    Am I crazy or did I just downgrade by ditching my 600? You decide....
    It could be a little bit of both.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpdnc
    How did Palm sell this 650 so effectively to all of us?
    Don't say 'us'. Some of 'us' are waiting for an upgrade

    BTW-everything that you have mentioned has been brought up before...you didn't know these things before you bought it? It appears that a lot of these things are bothering you...you still have 8 days to take it back right?
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    ...you didn't know these things before you bought it?
    Of course not. I didn't even find out about these forums until I had such problems that I went in search of answers. The 600 worked so well why would I have had cause to think they would make the 650 something less?

    ...and yes, I have 8 days to do something else.
  4. jorang's Avatar
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    #4  
    I assume you was asleep when "downgrading" to 650

    Possibly you should 'upgrade to an earlier vesion than the 600 right away...
    JoranG
    Treo650 Unlocked GSM (Cust ROM 1.71/1.20 ENA w/ FAT32.prc) - TomTom Navigator v5 (Western Europe Maps)
  5. #5  
    One or all of the following may be your problem:

    1. You have a defective unit!
    2. You may have too many unstable freeware or incompatible third party software or a corrupted file.
    3. You hot-synched your Treo 600 software & files straight to the Treo 650 and/or you did not do the initial install properly as per Palm or did not follow TreoCentral members' tips.

    Sorry to hear about your frustrations but I don't have any of them at all since I got my Treo 650 (locked Cingular) last February.

    If I were you, I'd dump (return) the T650 you have now. You've wasted too much of your time already for nothing.

    I had hardware problems with my previous low-res Treo 600, not to mention no bluetooth, no DUN, and a useless camera. Upgrading to a T650 for me was a no brainer.
    Last edited by Treo Rat; 10/20/2005 at 04:04 AM.
    Ed
    Visor Deluxe, Prism, Visorphone, Treo 270, Treo 600, Treo 650, and am eagerly waiting for the next generation Treo...but wait...is that the iPhone????
  6. #6  
    You when from GSM to CDMA, which affects your conferencing and two-call handling.

    If your battery died on the 600, you could loose data. If it dies on the 650, you keep your data. Many of us have learned to top off the battery whenever we can with a desktop or car charger.

    The memory is easily handled by using a sd card and something like zlauncher.

    If it is crashing a lot, it is likely a software conflict. You just can throw everything from your 600 into the 650. I am convinced that the Verizon 650 is the most stable of the 650's, provided you add software a little at a time.

    In every new piece of technology, there are always changes for one reason or another. Sometimes they don't make sense and we don't like them because we are used to the "old." But you can get used to most things.

    Overall, most people will say the screen and bluetooth make the 650 much nicer than the 600.

    I would say do a hard reset, make sure you have the latest VZW firmware (1.04) start fresh and be careful with the programs you use. Read the posts here for help on which programs you should use and work well. A couple "must haves" are zlauncher, VolumeCare, and a utility like Butler or TreoGuard.
  7. #7  
    I was hearing that they won't even be making the 600 anymore. My coworker's 600 **** the bed, and when she called the insurance company to get a replacement, they had to give her the 650 because there aren't any 600's left.
    Browse over to my new forum. http://www.palmfanatic.com

    "The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The wireless is the same, only without the cat. " - Albert Einstein

    Palm IIIxe - Kyocera 7135 - Treo 600 - Treo 650 -> Palm Vx - Tungsten T3 - Treo 700p
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUES
    I was hearing that they won't even be making the 600 anymore. My coworker's 600 **** the bed, and when she called the insurance company to get a replacement, they had to give her the 650 because there aren't any 600's left.
    You're probably hearing right. The 600 isn't even offered on Palms site anymore. Most likely, what's out there is all there will be.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. #9  
    Give it a chance. Had the 600 for 13 months. It was better than my last phone, but really only marginally better. Got the 650 last November. 600 still sits in a drawer. Should've sold it when I could have. I check it once a week to see if I need to charge it (to keep the battery in good shape). I'd never go back. To be honest, while I was using it, I actually hated the fact I spent the money I dId for it.

    As far as the camera is concerned, I couldn't believe the difference between the two. One kinda sucks, but the other is useless. Wanna buy a 600 with a non- removable battery that has been well taken care of?
  10. slinky's Avatar
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    #10  
    You have a lot of legitimate gripes. Having had both there is no question that the 600 was a better designed machine. IMHO, other than the screen and replaceable battery, there are little benefits and noticeable drawbacks.

    1) Crashing: Yes, even after I got the 650 to work properly it still crashes more than the 600. I've got it to the point where it may crash once every week or so. It is annoying as all g-dammned #$@$ to pull of my zcover, open the back of the unit, reset the damn thing. I want to shoot the ***** who thought of this ingenuity of blocking the reset button hole.

    2) The redial stupidity of having to push the button up before redialing is another reason to maim the redesigner. As if moving into the phone log would be a mistake you have to then create an awkard additional press to make sure you didn't make two mistakes. I got over this one but it always plagues me. I can live with it.

    3) The power button/end call issue. The redesigner deserves maiming and permanent torture. This one has taken me numerous calls to manage. It is obvious that people in the ivory tower used this phone here and there and they had absolutely no R&D with actual users or people who might actually have experience with this phone. There is another workaround with a piece of software listed in this thread but I haven't used it.

    4) Battery life shoudl not be 50% I was amazed at how good it is although it is a little less than the 600. I'll take the tradeoff of the replaceable battery. Mine just reboots and I can use the phone as it were in under a minute.

    5) Accessories. I really want to hurt those designers. Get ready to buy a whole bunch of new ones for no good reason whatsoever. Your external battery for the 600... nope, won't work either.

    6) RAM: It is the same or slightly better with the latest ROM upgrade. I'll give them that. It was less when the new VFS system was implemented and this was later fixed. Still too little RAM in this unit.

    7) You may have left out the favorites menu. If I wanted to press the button 17 times to scroll down across and to new screens, these wouldn't be favorites any more now would they? I preferred the four button one press to each of my four favorite apps.

    That said, my overall satisfaction is around the same. I can live with the tradeoffs but if you are a massive phone user and I mean massive, you may prefer the 600 for the reasons above. The 650 is a phone that adds numerous additional keypresses for power users and can easily become an annoying change. I don't think you are crazy for "downgrading." I like the high res screen because it makes reading text easier and I do a great deal of that. I also didn't pay for my "upgrade" so it was well worth the cost. I hear ya man...
  11. abb1's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Rat
    One or all of the following may be your problem:

    1. You have a defective unit!
    2. You may have too many unstable freeware or incompatible third party software or a corrupted file.
    3. You hot-synched your Treo 600 software & files straight to the Treo 650 and/or you did not do the initial install properly as per Palm or did not follow TreoCentral members' tips.

    Sorry to hear about your frustrations but I don't have any of them at all since I got my Treo 650 (locked Cingular) last February.

    If I were you, I'd dump (return) the T650 you have now. You've wasted too much of your time already for nothing.

    I had hardware problems with my previous low-res Treo 600, not to mention no bluetooth, no DUN, and a useless camera. Upgrading to a T650 for me was a no brainer.
    I was going to say the exact same thing in regards to the first two points. It is unbelievable how many people download software into their PDA's, have conflicts afterwards and then blame it on their hardware. I only have the software installed that I absolutely need, nothing less, nothing more and I would never install freeware on anything because remember- you ALWAYS get what you pay for. behold, my Treo 650 has run flawless from day 1- no lockups and no issues what so ever. It could also be that you have a defective unit. If so, have it replaced. Good luck, I really hope that everything works out for you
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by abb1
    I only have the software installed that I absolutely need, nothing less, nothing more and I would never install freeware on anything because remember- you ALWAYS get what you pay for.
    Let see...DA, dbScan, Downloader, FileZ, FlightStatus, KMaps, StopWatch2, TCPMP, all free, and run perfect for me.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  13. #13  
    TCPMP, DA, Keyshades, Keycaps....all are EXCELLENT programs.

    The fact that TCPMP is free is amazing to me!
  14. #14  
    Were they on drugs?
    Were you before you decided to bash my beloved device - on a Treo forum?

    We all know the shortcomings of the 650, as opposed to the 600. Like not being able to enter the menu directly while in a call; conference call functionality; and the admittedly retarded location of the power/phone-call-end button where the Power button was. I'll give you that, I hung up onvery important people at least 5 times. Damned button...

    At any rate, while the 650's advances over the 600 could be seen as slightly lethargic, one could say that the 650 is the Model T that will one day be a Ford Excursion with heated seats and a scrotum massager.

    It is only the 6th iteration.

    Long live the Treo.
    Unlocked 750v: Voice / Data
    Blackberry 7130c: Private Line
    Motorola v60g T-Mo: Business Voice
    Also HTC TyTN factory; Palm LifeDrive & TX
    7 year Cingular/PacBell veteran.
  15.    #15  
    Heh.
    My PDA history: ditched pre and upgraded back to the Treo 755p, Palm PRE, Treo 755p, 650, 600, TMobile Pocket PC, Visor Platinum, Kyocera Palmphone, Treo 300, Visor Silver, Ipaq H3600, Orig Handspring, and various and sundry other early iterations of PDA's.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Rat
    One or all of the following may be your problem:
    1. You have a defective unit!
    2. You may have too many unstable freeware or incompatible third party software or a corrupted file.
    3. You hot-synched your Treo 600 software & files straight to the Treo 650 and/or you did not do the initial install properly as per Palm or did not follow TreoCentral members' tips.
    Number 3 can be thrown out as a possible cause because I did the whole install thing with a Palm tech support person on the line with me cuz I wanted to make sure I didn't make any mistakes.
    Number 2 is likely not the cause since only tried and true 650 software apps (that I was accustomed to using in their 600 versions) have been installed.
    Number 1 is highly unlikely since most of the problems described have nothing to do with hardware or even ROM errors--they're just stupid alterations made by designers sometime between the 600 and the 650.

    I propose that it's none of the above and I just have to decide within the next 48 hours whether there's something out there (possibly the Samsung i730 or Siemens sx66) that will do what I need with the least amount of hassle.
    My PDA history: ditched pre and upgraded back to the Treo 755p, Palm PRE, Treo 755p, 650, 600, TMobile Pocket PC, Visor Platinum, Kyocera Palmphone, Treo 300, Visor Silver, Ipaq H3600, Orig Handspring, and various and sundry other early iterations of PDA's.
  17. #17  
    My 650 is very solid now. It just depends on what you install. If it resets after a hard reset, take it back. It is defective.
    NiceGPSuperior1 is a free GPS program, now with the ability to save your map! Get more info here. It's free! If you like this app and want to encourage development, you can donate from the web page link.

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    Search for "Nice" in the app catalog to see all my apps.
  18. vw2002's Avatar
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    #18  
    why did they do away with the conference call which was great on the 600? I mean, if you're selling a business phone, why eliminate one of the key features?
    I gotta have more cowbell
  19. #19  
    I'm going with the your crazy. Most of these are upgrades for most people but not in your particular usage.

    For example:

    The reset pin - I like that I don't need to unscrew a stylus anymore. It's behind the battery cover so it doesn't get reset by accident, I'm guessing. So I don't it see how it's a downgrade, but just different.

    The redial in the call log - I used to redial people all the time by accident when looking up a call on my 600. Now, I don't because the focus just returns the details of the last call.

    The battery - I get more battery life now that I did on my Treo 600. I don't know how you can complain about the reset in changing the battery, when the previous option was to not be able to change the battery at all. If you want your 600 functionality, just glue the battery in . I'll take the reset over being dead in the water without a battery for half the day.

    The camera - It sucks a lot less than the Treo 600 - http://www.bomad.com/photos/treo_650...ari/index.html - hence it's a upgrade.

    My Treo 650 is more stable than the Treo 600, but it should be noted that the software suite is different. It should be treated the same as when Ford comes out with a new Mustang. Sometimes the older version will have fewer recalls and malfunctions because they aren't trying to doing so many new things. If you add new features there's more things that can possibly break. My mom doesn't get power windows in her car precisely for this reason. So to each their own, but you shouldn't have expected a more stable phone when you know that half of the software applications have changed (like VersaMail) for instance.

    I don't mean to undermine my previous points, but I didn't think the quick keys worked in the 600 outside of the phone application unless you had some kind of 3rd party patch.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost
    You when from GSM to CDMA, which affects your conferencing and two-call handling.
    I would say do a hard reset, make sure you have the latest VZW firmware (1.04) start fresh and be careful with the programs you use. Read the posts here for help on which programs you should use and work well. A couple "must haves" are zlauncher, VolumeCare, and a utility like Butler or TreoGuard.
    UPDATE: Sent back my Treo 650 and cancelled my contract with VZ within the 15 day thing. Due to what Gapost posted I decided to try a couple of weeks with Cingular (the only remaining cellular co I have never experienced). So far, I'm thrilled to have my essential conference calling features back, along with the ability to conference in incoming callers, hang up on individual callers, yada, yada. I cannot believe how much I missed those functions. (Thanks Gapost).

    I also had forgotten just how many times I used to remove my SIM card and throw it into a junker phone when I knew I was going to be doing something that could potentially damage my phone (backcountry skiing, rappelling, boating, etc). It's nice to have that option back again.

    One thing I have noticed immediately is the improvement in call quality with Cingular. Customers used to always complain about my dropped calls or lousy reception with TMobile. There was virtually no improvement in quality during the last 2 weeks of heavy VZ usage. Even when asking people if they noticed a difference no one could hear any improvement.
    In the short time I've had the Cingular service I've already received spontaneous comments on the improvement in my phone reception. And, in fact, I drove a several-mile corridor twice that usually drops with both VZ and TMob and didn't drop with Cingular! I'm shocked.

    Now....as I am doing this 650 trial with an unlocked GSM I have run into a brand-new problem that I did not experience with the CDMA 650. I did a search on the form and it appears no one else has had this happen. When I try to Bluetooth a contact entry or a file the unit resets. It's really chapping me. Has anyone had this happen? What did you do? I never experienced this once with the CDMA and all I have done is load this unit up with a working restore using Backup Buddy's latest version.
    My PDA history: ditched pre and upgraded back to the Treo 755p, Palm PRE, Treo 755p, 650, 600, TMobile Pocket PC, Visor Platinum, Kyocera Palmphone, Treo 300, Visor Silver, Ipaq H3600, Orig Handspring, and various and sundry other early iterations of PDA's.
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