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  1. #41  
    I bought our two boys iPods and had to replace one of them 3 times due to "freezing". I have bought around 20 Treo's for our company and have had zero problems thus far after 3 months. Of the 20 only one (mine) is not stock. Everyone but myself is running only apps that came with the Treo. I am running a custom ROM plus around 50 to 75 more 3rd party apps. I have to reset mine maybe once every month. Less than I need to restart my PC. Sounds to me, in our case at least, there's a higher defective rate with iPods than Treos.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59
    I bought our two boys iPods and had to replace one of them 3 times due to "freezing". I have bought around 20 Treo's for our company and have had zero problems thus far after 3 months. Of the 20 only one (mine) is not stock. Everyone but myself is running only apps that came with the Treo. I am running a custom ROM plus around 50 to 75 more 3rd party apps. I have to reset mine maybe once every month. Less than I need to restart my PC. Sounds to me, in our case at least, there's a higher defective rate with iPods than Treos.
    Wow! You bought 20 for your company. Are you hiring?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost
    How do you know the defective rate of the Treo vs. the Ipod? Unless the companies release this information, there is no way to know. I know people who have had 3-4 ipods replaced because they were defective. Heck, my daughter's Ipod froze up twice the past week. And Apple does not even let other software be installed on the ipod. In addition, the Ipod is a much less complicated design than the Treo.

    I'm not saying the Treo doesn't have a high defect rate. I'm saying that I just haven't seen the data on this and have it compared to other electronic devices. I think a more appropriate comparision would be the defect rates of a Treo vs. notebook computers.
    I know the rates based on forums such as these. How do you know the people on this board are the only one with problems? There could be people worldwide who aren't on these forums. I get my statistics from what information is available, unlike your inquisitive method on information that's not. And I beg to differ about alternate software, me and a bunch of other folks have managed to partition our harddrives, extract the native OS and patch a linux kernel into it and toss it back on to the iPod. And you are right, the iPod is a simpler device comparitively. However, at least Apple was willing to do something about it. And a Treo vs. a Notebook computer? HAH no contest. I have managed to find enough documented resources in conjugation with my manufacturer to replace broken parts and troubleshoot issues on the *stock* system. My manufacturer has replaced everything from graphics cards to LCD displays and theres an entire forum of other people at alienwareforums.com who would agree. With the Treo, Palm has only promised to fix things and never actually done anything.



    John, well congratulations sir, you are a part of the 5% who didn't have problems. Unfortunately you cannot account for 100% of consumers, otherwise there would be no lawsuit. I guess in the above analogy you would fall in the place of a Dell owner ?
    Last edited by FrozenCode; 09/26/2005 at 06:45 PM.


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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    pabo.... nice summary. But you're forgetting those of us that do like our treo but wish it would work as advertised.
    Well, the real question is do you like the Treo, or what it is advertised to be...

    in other words, I would like a pill that let's me drop 25 pounds and have washboard abs, but the ones out there that advertise this don't really work - so I don't use them. I could drop 25 pounds and have washboard abs, I'm just not willing to pay the price associated with that ....
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCode
    And I guess we took the last step didn't we? That's why a lawsuit exists currently.
    People make things a lot more complicated than they need to be...

    Palm has a right to ship crappy product, I have a right to buy something that functions as advertised or to return it. I DO NOT have a right to direct Palm's Quality Assurance activities (the market overall will do that), and I think that is what people are attempting to do here.

    If the failure of the device results in death or destruction, Palm should be hammered (medical devices, body armor, etc). If the failure of the device results in frustration, aggravation or disappointment (no matter how great), THEN SHIP IT BACK AND GET YOUR MONEY.

    The Treo is a great example - you bought it because you wanted it - there are many other PDAs and phones available on the market for you to choose from if this one does not meet your needs.

    As for the lawsuit, we all know that this will enrich Palm's attorney's and the attorneys of the opposition, but do essentially nothing for the consumer.
  6. rg1
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    #46  
    Palm does NOT have a right to ship crap in a box that's labelled "treo". That's why there's a lawsuit against them.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Even something as technologically simple as a pencil needs sharpening.
    OT: Your pic and quotes are the highlight of the thread. BTW, not sure if it is intentional but your tagline below your ID says "Fear teh munk"....did u mean "Fear the munk"?

    On Topic: I suffered through the 600 debacle (5 replacements in one year), and the 650 is better and imprving with FW upgrades, but the freezing and resetting to me says Palm did a crap job of OS and testing. And I agree they do not seem to care - but that is our collective fault for continuing to buy the damn things!

    While no clear treo killer has emerged, it is a matter of time - they get closer each time, and Palm does little to address the flaws and discontent. They are simply asking for customer defections.
  8. #48  
    Just to let you know. You come to the wrong broad. They are all Treo fan boys, no matter what you say it will never change there mind.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    Palm does NOT have a right to ship crap in a box that's labelled "treo". That's why there's a lawsuit against them.
    Why not? Ford does it.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    You should buy a TiVo.... works flawlessly out of the box.
    I had to return my first TiVo, it didn't work out of the box.

    There is no such thing as a defect free product.

    Produce enough of anything and you will produce a defective unit.
    I'm back!
  11. PSM
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    #51  
    The Palm rep's comments about every product having a certain amount of defects is true, but what makes me mad is that they seem to be ignoring input from forum posters, assuming that they all happen to have some defective hardware. If they won't listen to people who are using their product and trying to identify bugs, how do they ever hope to fix them? If some of these bugs are caused by software (not third-party), then doesn't that imply that every Treo has the same software, and thus a 100% defect rate? Should this not be fixed? It sounds like they're in denial that any problems are caused by fundamental flaws in the product, and since they're not going to look for them, we'll never get them fixed.

    I can be understanding when a product is shipped with defects, I just expect that the manufacturer will provide fixes for these defects (especially when software-related) once they're discovered.
  12. #52  
    Palm is, of course, correct that there's no such thing as a perfect or defect free product. But saying so in as they did in the response posted here (assuming it's legit) is not very smart customer relations. Based on "The Man's" tone, though, I suspect they were tired of reading his rantings, wanted to get rid of him, and didn't really care if they lost him as a customer.

    "Man," I have a question for you. Does your phone lock up when running in the default Palm configuration, with no added 3rd party software? I ask because mine (with quite a few 3rd party apps, no less) is absolutely stable. I can't recall the last time it locked up, but it's been several months, at least. I reset it yesterday for the first time in ages.

    If your's is unstable with no added software, then Palm should indeed replace your phone. But if you've loaded it up with a bunch of non-certified programs from multiple developers, I think your anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at ISVs who can't be bothered to do things the right way.

    The vast majority of Treo users, even here where you're likely to find a bunch of people with problems looking for help, seem to get along fine with there devices. You say "so many people" have requested replacements. Do you have any idea what the 650's return rate is? I certainly don't, and without that little bit of info, you're doing nothing more than spouting opinions as if they were facts.

    I've been on this forum since a few months after the 600 was released. And my impression is that very few people have asked for replacement 650s, espcially as compared to the 600.
    Bob Meyer
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  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    Why not? Ford does it.

    Bah, I'm leasing a Focus, and I have to say Ford really came together this time around. They're starting to build their reputation up. They are also doing some testing with a fuel cell Focus and other alternative sources. Looking under the hood everything seems well put together and powerful [enough]. Not to mention they did a hell of a job with managing the interior space! I'm happy with my new Focus, which is more than I can say for my fourth 650.


    And what is this? "Palm has a right to ship a crappy product"?! Well fine then. Martha had a right to insider trading. The Peterson's DID not have a child. OJ didn't do it. Michael Jackson is a normal human being. And a Boeing DID in fact hit the Pentagon.

    I've been visiting these forums since I had a Treo 90 and that was an actual sub-forum, when someone had modded their 270 into a 270nl (no lid) and painted it metallic blue. In my experience a lot of people have returned and had their Treo replaced. In fact I remember when people went through 3 to 4 Treo 300s in a 2 month period. Now granted that's before Palm took over Handspring, but it suprises me (kind of) that the number of Treo's per month has risen to 5 or 6, even 7!


  14. rg1
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    #54  
    Luckily Palm is immune to such issues...

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/f...tices/v710.jsp
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    Palm does NOT have a right to ship crap in a box that's labelled "treo". That's why there's a lawsuit against them.
    uh, with all due respect, what are you talking about.

    filing a lawsuit is a process that anyone can undertake for ANY reason, not proof that your opinion is valid....
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    Luckily Palm is immune to such issues...

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/f...tices/v710.jsp
    woohooooooo

    $25 off your next bill or a refund. That's freakin' awesome !!!!

    hmmm....wonder how much the lawyers took home, my guess is more than $25.
  17. rg1
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    #57  
    Not true for class actions suits. This is a class action suit against Palm.
  18. pabo's Avatar
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    #58  
    what's not true, that anyone can file a class action suit for any reason ?

    for the purposes of this argument, a class action suit is no different than any other lawsuit.

    Bookmark this thread. If Palm loses you will get no more than a refund (you could get that now) or $50 toward your purchase of their next full retail product (that you can get for $100 less elsewhere).....

    a lawsuit is a claim, not a finding.

    and by the way - if a company wnats to ship crap in a box, they certain can - there is nothing inherently illegal about that.
    Last edited by pabo; 09/27/2005 at 08:42 PM.
  19. rg1
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    #59  
    No point in us arguing it here.... let the judge sort it out....

    One of the claims from the class action suit:
    "Palm also concealed material facts regarding the Treo 600 and 650, including that
    Treos fail at unacceptably high rates, are inherently defective and are not reliable storage devices or
    mobile phones, are not of merchantable quality, do not conform to the specifications with which
    Palm has claimed they comply, and are not capable of being properly or reliably repaired by Palm."

    Link to claim --> http://www.techfirm.com/treocomplaint.pdf
  20. #60  
    Pabo, that makes no sense. If there was nothing illegal about it, then these lawsuits would not exist and companies would not have recalls.

    The point of this lawsuit is not money. Obviously both the lawyers will make a killing, get a few tax breaks, and we'll get a quarter in the mail. Fine with me, it does however, convey a message to Palm who just lost millions paying their lawyers and whatnot that they can't ship crap in a box. So you bookmark this thread and see if this holds true. While you may want to think that all CEOs and suit wearing folk are cut throat numbers only kind of people, the fact of the matter is that they know that even if they win the lawsuit, they still lost. This is the message we are sending to Palm, and if they can't pick up on that, that's even more of a reason to never buy a Palm product again. They'll tell you the same thing in the local grocery store, Harvard Business School, or a Fortune 500 company: Customer satisfaction is a main priority. Nothing bad can come of good customer service.

    EDIT

    In fact, I met a guy at the grocery store today who had a 650. I said, "Hey, I have that same phone!" and for the next 5 minutes we discussed the issues about how no one on the other end could hear us and about the class action and this website. He said he wanted to get in on it. So if I can find one person in the most obscure part of the country in a grocery store in small rural area, I'm sure theres tons more in major cities.


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