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  1. rg1
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    #21  
    This thread is rediculous. We're making excuses for an OS that is not stable and does not have memory management (to protect apps from crashing the entire system). People should expect more than what we've got. If you've used a real, stable OS like linux (or any flavor of unix) you've realize that an OS **can** be stable for nearly 1 year (yes, YEAR). This is probably why palmsource is moving to linux.

    To me, it's rediculous that PalmOS has to take over your device when it's trying to connect to the internet... it's a smart phone. There's should be a setting to automatically connect to the internat and it should do so completely in the background.

    I think what keeps us all on palm os is the glimmer of hope we get when we use a good app. I like my Treo... I just wish it was much better (and more stable).
  2. #22  
    I don't see anything wrong with Palm tech support's response. Unless I'm missing something, they just noted that all products will have defective units. I didn't get the impression they were saying all treos have defects that we just have to live with.... Then again, it's hard to judge their response when we don't know what they where responding to and the message is abreviated.
  3. #23  
    The question should have been:

    Was the OS stable without any third party software being installed?
    Can you use the phone reliably whenever you need it, without any third party software, with exception where the phone service provider does not have coverage?

    If the answers to either of these questions are no, then Palm failed.
  4. #24  
    a) Not in my *4* cases
    b) When it works, maybe, but thats more carrier specific

    That's the problem Katway. After listening to so much of Palm's BS about how they plan on fixing a problem then sending me to non-related CS (Cingular) they just make a generic statement that all products are defective. Well through out this thread people have pointed out this is not true. In fact, the only device on my desk (and I've got bunches) that is defective is my Treo and the old iPod I took apart, and the latter I bought that way. Everything else works marvelously, my iPod (not the broken one), my laptop, my desktop, my TV, my iRiver PMP, etc. So it's really difficult (at least for me) to say that there is nothing wrong with Palm's statement.

    Rg1, I don't think Palm needs to be enhancing anything right now when they can't even get the basics right. It's like a little kid thinking he needs "down force" on an old Civic that Daddy bought him.


  5. rg1
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    The question should have been:

    Was the OS stable without any third party software being installed?
    Can you use the phone reliably whenever you need it, without any third party software, with exception where the phone service provider does not have coverage?

    If the answers to either of these questions are no, then Palm failed.
    Terrible... Palm is responsible for the user experience. If they allow crappy s/w to crash the entire OS (since their OS doesn't offer protection) they should publish a list of "supported" software. Or, don't allow for the ability to add 3rd party s/w.
  6. #26  
    Agree, managing customer expectations is one of key measurements for companies.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    Terrible... Palm is responsible for the user experience. If they allow crappy s/w to crash the entire OS (since their OS doesn't offer protection) they should publish a list of "supported" software. Or, don't allow for the ability to add 3rd party s/w.
    Well said, and I agree totally.

    However,

    I have installed many 3rd party apps without any problems... so it seems that some may have gotten lemons.
  8. #28  
    dude, you are way too hung up on this. it sounds like the treo has ruined your life and killed your family. only one thing left to do ... commit sepuku with your treo. just shove it in your mouth and keep pushing until you can't see it anymore.

    -or-
    buy a new phone and go write up how it ruined your life in that phone's forum when you can't get it to work either
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    only one thing left to do ... commit sepuku with your treo. just shove it in your mouth and keep pushing until you can't see it anymore.
    Well, that probably wouldn't work either!!

    Where's my petition??
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #30  
    you pay MEGAbucks to be on top of technology. the truth is, there's really nothing else on the market better than the treo..that's why we're all here dealing with their defects and yet, we[most of us] are happy that we are users that will drive the next step forward
  11. rg1
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxdup
    you pay MEGAbucks to be on top of technology. the truth is, there's really nothing else on the market better than the treo..that's why we're all here dealing with their defects and yet, we[most of us] are happy that we are users that will drive the next step forward
    I like my treo too... but you guys are making excuses for Palm. If they keep this up, they are inviting competition to come take their market share.... and it's happening. Look at how many people are excited to see a windows based palm (to be announced today)... Yes, that's right, folks would rather have MICROSOFT on their handheld than Palm. That's when you know you've hit rock bottom.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCode
    ...a) ... After listening to so much of Palm's BS about how they plan on fixing a problem then sending me to non-related CS (Cingular) they just make a generic statement that all products are defective. Well through out this thread people have pointed out this is not true...
    I don't think they were saying all products are defective. I think they were saying all products will have a given number of defective units. Your Ipod may work for you, but someone else probrably has received a defective unit at some point in time. I think there is a difference between saying every single unit produced is defective versus saying every technology product will have defective units. Can anyone really point out any technology item that never produced a single defective unit?

    I'm not trying to make excuses for Palm, etc. I'm just not trying to read more into their response than was actually written. Plus, it's hard to attribute any context to their response when we don't have the question and entire response.
  13. rg1
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    #33  
    You're right. The Treo650 product (both h/w and s/w) is not any more defective than any other consumer product. In fact, it meets our expectations as well as other products meet their customer's expectations.

    We can close this thread.
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    #34  
    I guess I don't get it.

    If you like it keep it.

    If you are willing to deal with its faults keep it.

    If you don't like it, return in.

    If they won't let you return it, AND it fails to function correctly, it takes 5 minutes to file a complaint with the BBB and the state's Attorney General online. This will get the attention of the right folks and you should see action pretty quickly.

    If you don't want to return it, AND it fails to function correctly - quit complaining.
  15. rg1
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    #35  
    pabo.... nice summary. But you're forgetting those of us that do like our treo but wish it would work as advertised.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by rg1
    You're right. The Treo650 product (both h/w and s/w) is not any more defective than any other consumer product. In fact, it meets our expectations as well as other products meet their customer's expectations.

    We can close this thread.

    You're talking about Treo quality in general, which is covered ad naseum in several threads. I'm not at all defending Treo quality with respect to other products, etc. I never said that, but your implying I did; just as this post implies Palm said something that it didn't.

    What I'm addressing is the original post, which is an abbreviated version of Palm's response to some unknown question/issue. I'm simply addressing that post and not reading more into Palm's response than what was stated.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Katway
    I don't think they were saying all products are defective. I think they were saying all products will have a given number of defective units. Your Ipod may work for you, but someone else probrably has received a defective unit at some point in time. I think there is a difference between saying every single unit produced is defective versus saying every technology product will have defective units. Can anyone really point out any technology item that never produced a single defective unit?
    I see what you are saying, however compare the number of defective iPods to the number of defective Treo's. No contest, the number of defective Treo's are astronomically high. It is unjustified for there to be that many defective units in a batch of products. The only way this could happen was if Palm knew the product was defective when they released it. So the product is not defective, it's supposed to operate that way. But let's set that aside. Let's assume it is possible for that many defective units to be let into the market. Palm sends in a batch of Treo's, of that batch 95% are damaged, for some reason we accept that as normal. Next week they say they will solve these issues and enhance the existing device, free of charge. Three months later only 94% of that batch are defective, only because the owners of the 1% got fed up and threw the Treo's into the river. Palm still has not released a fix, instead they give all Treo owners a 128MB SD Card, which is useless because by then you have already purchased a 1GB card to compensate for crippled memory. You sell the 128MB card on eBay for a whopping $15. Palm still has not released any fixes. Months after this you see a regression in performance. You rely on yourself and others to overclock and enhance your device to get performance out of it. Which brings us to now. Palm still has not released any fixes and a group of users are sick of it. They sue Palm. We wait for the story to unfold.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pabo
    I guess I don't get it.

    If you like it keep it.

    If you are willing to deal with its faults keep it.

    If you don't like it, return in.

    If they won't let you return it, AND it fails to function correctly, it takes 5 minutes to file a complaint with the BBB and the state's Attorney General online. This will get the attention of the right folks and you should see action pretty quickly.

    If you don't want to return it, AND it fails to function correctly - quit complaining.
    It's not that easy. If you like it keep it. Okay we can do that, I'm sure there are people on this board who qualify for that. Same with the next one. If you don't like it, return it. Are there really any other options out there? Palm creates a device, they tell us it will work, and it doesn't. It's not like I can migrate over to a Blackberry over night. It's not that simple. And I guess we took the last step didn't we? That's why a lawsuit exists currently.
    Last edited by FrozenCode; 09/26/2005 at 08:30 AM.


  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by wernst
    That said, I've posted on the "Freeze" thread a setting that MAY solve the problem. It did for Kyocera 7135's, and that same setting is on my T650, and I've never experienced the freeze problem.

    We'll know if this is truly a solution after others try it and report back...
    as you may notice, someone has reported they got the issue even if the enable local network time was left unchecked. however, I just unchecked it and let you know.

    about this thread, Palm is making a generic debate, while we're focusing a specific issue:

    users give their opinions about when the freeze comes and how to fix it (if possibile) with known procedures, but the freeze is there, and that's a fact.
    matro 180->270->600->650->750v->680->Pro
  19. #39  
    Think about like it was an automobile. A car has 17,000 parts. If it is 99.999% defect free, it will still have problems with 17 parts. If you bought a new car that had 17 problems in the first year, you'd sue.

    A Treo is no different. It has a few million transistors and probally a few hundred thousand lines of code.
  20. #40  
    I see what you are saying, however compare the number of defective iPods to the number of defective Treo's. No contest, the number of defective Treo's are astronomically high.
    How do you know the defective rate of the Treo vs. the Ipod? Unless the companies release this information, there is no way to know. I know people who have had 3-4 ipods replaced because they were defective. Heck, my daughter's Ipod froze up twice the past week. And Apple does not even let other software be installed on the ipod. In addition, the Ipod is a much less complicated design than the Treo.

    I'm not saying the Treo doesn't have a high defect rate. I'm saying that I just haven't seen the data on this and have it compared to other electronic devices. I think a more appropriate comparision would be the defect rates of a Treo vs. notebook computers.
    Last edited by gapost; 09/26/2005 at 09:30 AM.
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