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  1.    #21  
    Thanks, West

    Am going to delete the backup buddy. I don't travel that much so I am not that far away from my computer very often. Plus, it is really only the databases that I HAVE to have at any one time. Gonna try your free backup program. Already have file Z
    Nanotechnology Nerd
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  2.    #22  
    Update.

    Went home. Hard reset. Did full restore from the computer.

    Preferences are back !! (most of them)

    So, I guess when I synced after the crash, somehow the prefs file did not get overwritten. (??)

    Anyway, question to you guys. Do I delete BackUp Buddy vfs or give it another try?
    Nanotechnology Nerd
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer
    Anyway, question to you guys. Do I delete BackUp Buddy vfs or give it another try?
    That's up to you. I've never had a problem with BBVFS, but if you decide to delete it, you should try another backup product (Backupman, Resco Backup, etc). You were lucky that you hadn't overwritten your backed up file on the desktop, but if you had, you would have OK if you'd had a couple of checkpoint backups from previous weeks on your card. I've always got at least 5 or 6 backups of various ages available on my card for just that reason.
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  4.    #24  
    Thanks for the advice.

    Learned several very important lessons today. Now, I am at least 0.00000001% less stupid than I was this morning! I have a long ways to go.......
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  5. #25  
    That reminds me... i just did an InnerBackup backup. You never know...

    The only thing I am lacking is a good backup of my SD Card. I probably should do that. Easy enough, of course, I just need to actually do it.
  6. #26  
    Just for future reference...
    I have powerguard and resco backup both. I use powerguard to backup my saved and unsaved prefs, contacts, memos, todos, and calendar items automatically every so often. It only takes a few seconds. You can also set up resco to do automatic backups of your prefs files every so often without backing everything else up (In addition to setting regular full backups). The only difference is powerguard is free, and you have to restore manually.

    Just don't backup too often (like there is an option to backup every time you turn the power off) as I could see it very easy to lose a good prefs file.
  7. NRG
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer
    Update.

    Went home. Hard reset. Did full restore from the computer.

    Preferences are back !! (most of them)

    So, I guess when I synced after the crash, somehow the prefs file did not get overwritten. (??)

    Anyway, question to you guys. Do I delete BackUp Buddy vfs or give it another try?
    I use backupman, after trying to use BBVFS and having corrupt backups, resets, lost preferences, etc. I switched to BackupMan and no probs yet. Congrats on getting it restored.

    Sidenote: Glad everything worked out for you concerning the storm. For some reason I thought you were located on the north side of the lake (i.e. Hammond?).
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by westronic
    That reminds me... i just did an InnerBackup backup. You never know...

    The only thing I am lacking is a good backup of my SD Card. I probably should do that. Easy enough, of course, I just need to actually do it.

    Interesting you should mention that. I tried to do that by copying the entire contents of the card to a folder on my hard-drive using a usb card reader, but got some strange errors preventing me from copying some of the image files from the sd card.

    So by George, I got me another usb card reader and did a direct SD to SD backup. Worked flawlessly!! The reason I did it was because I have tons of stuff on Z-launcher and I wanted to make one sd card filled with music and a second 1 gb card with several movies on it, and I wanted both cards to have an identical Z-launcher file.
    Nanotechnology Nerd
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  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    For some reason I thought you were located on the north side of the lake (i.e. Hammond?).
    Nope,
    central state, Alexandria.

    Hammond and Slidell got hit pretty hard, though.
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  10. #30  
    [QUOTE=NRG]I use backupman, after trying to use BBVFS and having corrupt backups, resets, lost preferences, etc. I switched to BackupMan and no probs yet. Congrats on getting it restored.QUOTE]


    I bought Backupman and it always give me a DB out of space error. It's been pretty much unusable. E-mailed tech support and they said it was a treo 650 problem with a "memory Leak"???

    For now all I have is a fairly fragile piece of freeware (vfsbackup).
    How much is RESCO?
  11. NRG
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    #31  
    [QUOTE=e_drummer53]
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I use backupman, after trying to use BBVFS and having corrupt backups, resets, lost preferences, etc. I switched to BackupMan and no probs yet. Congrats on getting it restored.QUOTE]


    I bought Backupman and it always give me a DB out of space error. It's been pretty much unusable. E-mailed tech support and they said it was a treo 650 problem with a "memory Leak"???

    For now all I have is a fairly fragile piece of freeware (vfsbackup).
    How much is RESCO?
    Well that sucks. Mine works flawlessly. BackUpMan that is.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Well that sucks. Mine works flawlessly. BackUpMan that is.
    That's why I never recommend a particular backup solution any more. Everyone's setup is slightly different..such that BBVFS works flawlessly for me, but not for you; BackupMan works flawlessly for you but not for e_drummer53; etc.

    I think the only backup app about which I haven't seen complaints is Resco's.
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  13. #33  
    I think I'll take a look at RESCO!!
  14.    #34  
    Resco has a 14 day trial.

    worth a try I guess.

    Here is a LINK
    Nanotechnology Nerd
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  15.    #35  
    The Resco website has a very interesting discussion on backing up databases with the new NVFS systems like the T650:
    About Backup
    Backup is seemingly a simple action. In many cases it is really so - mainly if you use older handhelds or have a simple installation. However, things may become more complicated... Following paragraphs discuss what you should know in order to keep your data safe.

    Summary
    My handheld always crashes during backup, what's going on?

    Every user heard that.
    And many of them swear that programmers cannot write backup programs etc.

    We'll show that while it is true that there are better and worse programs, in many cases the backup program is innocent. And the key to the success has often the user...

    For those who want just the essence here is a brief recapitulation:


    All systems:
    Backup crash may be caused by a background application. This is the most frequent reason.
    (T3 and higher palmOne handhelds Do not backup old PIM databases. This is a reliable way to losing your contacts etc.
    A backup following warm reset may succeed even if you have installed dangerous 3rd party applications.
    Restore after a hard reset is safer than a restore of a handheld with installed applications.


    NVFS systems (T5, T650, E2, Lifedrive):


    Do you have the latest Palm OS update? T5 users with Palm OS 5.4.5 must upgrade!
    Do not use unreliable background applications.
    Backup programs or background applications that were last time updated prior to NVFS launch (October 2004) might be unreliable.



    About warm reset
    Warm reset (reset while "Up" button is pressed) starts just core system services without broadcasting reset notification. Among other consequences, this implies:

    No background application is activated.
    Smaller amount of opened/locked databases.

    This in turn greatly reduces the risk in the backup/restore operations.

    Before blaming a backup program that it crashed, you should always try backup after warm reset. Eventual success suggests that the backup program might be innocent.

    Problems with background applications
    For the reason of brevity we shall call these applications hacks - i.e. we shall retain the name used before Palm OS 5 arrived.

    Hacks run concurrently with the backup (or any other application currently used). They can react on a number of events such as database modification, pen tap, keyboard press etc. They may react in any thinkable way and some of these reactions may conflict e.g. with the Restore operation.

    Example
    Let's take a hypothetical hack that makes a log (a database called say DbLog) of all created databases. Let's assume the Restore operation just started.

    As the Restore progresses, it creates new databases and the hack adds new entries to the DbLog. This works until the moment Restore tries to rewrite the DbLog.

    The result depends on the way the hack is written.
    If DbLog is closed, then it will be overwritten and old and new entries get mixed.
    If DbLog is opened exclusively, its restore fails without affecting anything else.
    If DbLog is opened non-exclusively, the result will be a crash.

    Prevention
    Do not use hacks that were last time updated in the pre-NVFS era. (First T5 was launched in October 2004.) It is highly probable that they might present a potential problem.

    Consider either disabling active hacks or running backup/restore after a warm reset. (Warm reset deactivates all hacks.)

    Opened/locked/protected databases
    The fact that a database is opened means that there is a live pointer into it and its overwriting is potentially dangerous. This is the risk of the Restore operation.

    However, an opened database can also mean an inconsistent state. (E.g. part of the data is queued in some cache.) This is the risk of the Backup operation.

    Locked database means that there is some record marked as being processed. While backing up such a DB seldom presents a problem, its overwriting might do so.

    Protected denotes special DB status when the DB cannot be deleted. Newer handhelds use sometimes this flag to mark sensitive system databases. Restore of protected databases is very risky and backup programs should avoid it.

    Prevention
    Again, warm reset will generally decrease the number of opened/locked/protected databases.

    You can also add a dangerous database to the Exclude list. (If the backup program offers such possibility.)

    PIM databases
    This chapter concerns modern palmOne handhelds (T3 and higher).

    History
    Old well-known PIM databases are AddressDB, DatebookDB, MemoDB and ToDoDB. As the time passed a need for richer data appeared.

    palmOne reacted logically by designing new PIM databases. So e.g. MemoDB was replaced by MemosDB-PMem. However, there were plenty of legacy applications counting on presence of original MemoDB.

    The adopted decision was to keep a fake (emulated) MemoDB. That means the DB is empty, but in case some application needs it, MemoDB will be temporarily populated from the new PIM databases.

    Works well, i.e. until someone uses MemoDB to overwrite the contents of the new memo database. This will lead to a partial loss of data. This is exactly what happens during Restore if you backed up both old and new PIM databases.

    Prevention
    Exclude old PIM databases from the backup. (If the backup program offers such possibility; some programs may do so automatically.)

    NVFS-related problems
    This chapter concerns NVFS-based handhelds. (At the time of writing: T5, T650, E2, LifeDrive.)

    What is NVFS?
    Non-Volatile File Storage, i.e. a permanent storage that will survive even the battery removal.

    Unlike older Palm handhelds, databases are located in the NVFS storage and cannot be accessed directly. Instead, they are accessed through a reserved RAM area called DbCache.

    It is a kind of window into NVFS: Prior to use the DB must be copied to the DbCache and after the use the changes are copied back to NVFS and the DB may be removed from the DbCache to provide the space for other databases. For efficiency reasons the last step is delayed until the DbCache is full.

    DbCache is around 10 MB and you can have installed a lot more data in the RAM. You can even have a single database that is larger than the whole DbCache. This implies a fundamental consequence for the Palm programming: The position of the database or their records is no longer constant.

    What kind of problems happen?
    NVFS itself has problems. (Concerns mainly T5 and early T650 releases; later handhelds are much safer.)
    It appears that certain functions are not reliable and can return bad values or cause random crashes. Fortunately their frequency is not too high.

    Variable DB position. (Discussed above.) Programs not realizing this will occasionally crash.

    Background applications. Although "hacks" proved to work reliably in the past, they are as a rule not prepared for NVFS.
    The most frequent problem is that the application itself can be moved. Although this can be considered as Palm OS problem, the workaround must be done by the hack itself. If not, the user will experience random crashes.

    Specifics of a backup program
    Backup works with huge amounts of data, which necessarily leads to a full DbCache and higher frequency of DB swapping. This in turn implies higher risk of the NVFS crashes.

    This also means a higher risk of hack crashes.

    Data errors: NVFS (mainly early releases) may return incorrect data. This effect (invalid backup set) can be discovered only by using tool such as the Resco Backup Verify function.

    Prevention
    Make sure that you installed the latest Palm OS update. Mainly first NVFS implementations (T5, T650) were very instable.

    Do not use backup programs or background applications that were last updated in the pre-NVFS era. They cannot handle moving databases etc.

    Pay attention that you use only safe hacks, or deactivate them during backup.

    Practical advice
    Check Palm OS version (Launcher "Info" menu, select "Version"). If you have PalmOS 5.4.5 then you should upgrade.


    As of this writing PalmOS 5.4.8 is the most recent OS update and it appears to be stable. (Palm OS 5.4.7 used in Tungsten E2 looks good as well.)
    Nanotechnology Nerd
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  16.    #36  
    But one question,
    we can't update our Palm OS, right? Isn't it specific to our Phone?

    edit:
    nevermind. I have os 5.4.8, apparently the newest one. Guess the palm os was updated with the two ROM redos
    Last edited by shadowboxer; 09/15/2005 at 01:51 PM.
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  17. #37  
    What works well for me for backing up the saved prefs is that no matter what backup program I use or how often I hotsync, I make a manual copy of saved prefs and NetworkDB (both of which are constantly getting corrupted during a reset).
    It is simple to use filez and copy those files to the SD card.

    Neither of these files change much unless you change your settings or install new apps, so once you have things setup, back them up.
    That way you will have known clean copies.

    Glad you were able to recover mostly. Most of us have unfortunately been there as well.

    Thanks for making all of remember to back our stuff up!
  18. #38  
    You have OS ver 5.4.8?

    I have 5.4.7 with the latest Cingular firmware installed. Which Treo 650's come with 5.4.8?

    Aloke Prasad
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  19.    #39  
    Sprint with the latest (2nd) firmware update
    Nanotechnology Nerd
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  20. #40  
    Resco is the ONLY backup program I have used that backs up to the card and handles errors properly. It can distinguish between files that are safe and not safe to back up. I have used rfbackup, vfsbackup, inner backup (pretty good), verisafe, powerguard lite, powerguard cool, and a few others. Resco is the only reliable one I've tried so far.

    p.s. the others seems to work just fine (I backed up and restored using each of them), but they will pop up periodic errors whereas resco just logs the errors and moves on.
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