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  1.    #1  
    I've been a Treo loyalist since the beginning, but I'm just about at the end of my rope with the 650. The phone is buggy, slow and the memory problem is an outrage (No room to run Vindigo, which is the only other 3rd Party app except DayNotez that I use). Sprint is no help and I don't know where to turn.

    Before I switch to another OS or handset, I thought I'd write a letter to the Palm CEO and see what kind of response that brings. Maybe, just maybe they can keep me as a customer (either through bribery or contrition). I was wondering, though, if anyone on this board has done so already. And if so, what kind of response did you receive?
  2. #2  
    Paul, I'm with you brother! I have been a Palm user since my original Palm Pilot. I think the Treo 650 is the worst cell phone and the worst PDA I've ever had. In fact, it is the biggest let down of any purchase I have ever made. This "SmartPhone" is just what you said, "buggy, slow and the memory problem is an outrage". Versamail crashes more than any other app I have ever used on ANY operating system--that includes some crud on MacOS 7.5 and Windows 95. Blazer is a slower than surfing the web through Avantgo's browser on a 14.4 connection on my m515--a PDA with a 33mhz processor! The phone is just awful. Everyone else in my building can reliably make calls--as I could with my old phone--but now I constantly miss incoming calls and drop current calls and am unable to make new calls. The tech support is a joke. The quoted 32MB or RAM is a stretch at best and a violation of consumer protection laws at worst. You really only have about 22MB to use and if you have any prayer of the phone working acceptably, you need at least 4 MB free. Running apps from the SD card is painfully slow. Need I go on?

    Paul, I'll help you write the letter. I'm dead serious.

    Oh, and for the record, I'm no newbie. I'm on my third Treo 650 and I work in IT and have written tech reviews for a couple of regional magazines so I do have a clue as to how to use technology in general. I live in a big city with great coverage so that's not why my phone usage is abysmal. None of these issues are because I didn't read the manual, have a defective phone, or just generally have no idea what I'm doing. Please save the flames, I'm sick of this terrible phone. Why do so many people on here apologize for Palm's actions in creating such a problematic and buggy device???

    Sorry for the rant! I don't mean to offend, but I've reached the end of my line too. Throw in the VZW billing screwups that have cost me hours on the phone with cust. svc. and I'm ready to throw the 650 through a window.
  3. #3  
    I definitely know where you guys are coming from and empathize with the obviously bad experience you've had. Perhaps I've just been lucky with the hardware and have definitely spent more time than the typical user getting my Sprint 650 functional, but have now finally gotten my 650 stable. It's taken about 8 months to get it back to the same level of stability as my 600 was. Given I've had the Treo300, Treo600, and Treo650, I've seen it all. I'd say Handspring did a far better job on most of their devices and Palm hasn't figured out how to deliver a reliable device yet. Still, I'm hooked on the converged technology, so I'm willing to continue fighting through the problems.

    You may know this stuff already, but thought I'd throw in some ideas that may help you (at least until you actually do throw it out the window).
    1. Move to the latest firmware to take advantage of the improved flash memory efficiency.
    2. Move Vindigo to the SD card and use it's "update wirelessly" capability instead of hotsyncing the updates. That's been known to save 1.4MB or more.
    3. Use dbCacheTool to help manage the NVFS cache (the *real* 650 memory limit). Other than the paltry 32MB in the phone, this is what Palm screwed up the most.
    4. Set up your VersaMail accounts on the Treo, not on the PC/Mac. I found the VersaMail PC/Mac-Treo method extremely flaky.

    True, none of this will fix flaky hardware or network/coverage related problems, but they've been useful for me and are free. HTH.
  4.    #4  
    I really appreciate the tips, but I don't have the time or patience to play nursemaid to my device. I bought the 650 because I trusted Handspring to deliver on what I view as its brand promise: an ever increasing degree of reliability and convenience with each new product. They've failed miserably and I think Mr. Colligan should have the opportunity to hear me out, respond and - hopefully - make good.
  5.    #5  
    Glad to hear I'm not alone. I appreciate your offer to help draft a letter, but I think we'd be more effective (and the experiment would be more interesting) if we each wrote from our personal experience.

    So here's what I propose:
    1) Everyone should write their own letter
    2) Once you send it, post it here
    3) Post your responses - if you get any - from Mr. Colligan here
  6. #6  
    I'd tell Ed to make a gosh dern clamshell...similar to the Nokia Communicator phones!! And bring Linux as fast as you can...that WM5 ain't gonna help you out in the long run!

    [/End Of Rant]
  7. thesmj's Avatar
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    #7  
    *shrug* I love my 650. I dont have any problems with it what-so-ever.

    Granted this is my first REAL PDA, I had a T-Mo Sidekick before the 650, and I'm much, much happier with the 650. Better reception, applications, and the list goes on and on.
  8. #8  
    Outside of the memory shortage I don't have any major issues with my 650 (Sprint), either. My only request would be to have the ability to remove built-in apps I don't use like Real Player, Quick Tour, Get BC, and Downloads. That's got to be a good 4 or 5 MBs alone! I've read people who have had serious issues with Versamail, but I haven't had any. I set up my 2 accounts on the Treo and not via my PC. Maybe that's the difference, I don't know. I don't get a lot of dropped calls, either. I would like to see Palm come out with an OEM extended battery for the 650, though. Running Bluetooth and ZLauncher will drain the battery fast! Especially if I'm listening to Pocket Tunes. All in all I'm please with my device. I would just like to have more control over what apps are included and what are deletable.
  9. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #9  
    ^ Yeah, it took about 4 months to get my T650 stable and reliable. The firmware update worked miracles for me.

    Granted, I know where you're coming from, but I'm sure Palm is fully aware of the T650's shortcomings, and I'm sure they're working to improve future models.

    I guess, in short, I'm saying this: You may be wasting your time and energy trying to express your disatisfaction with the T650. but then again I'm not going to blame you for trying

    Do keep us posted
  10. #10  
    A Treo 650 is way more complex than any other PDA you might have owned in the past. You have to really know what you are doing and learn how to fix it after you installed a buggy program. I have my Treo since late February and it took me some time to get the most of it while having a functional device. I guess a biggest problem is what you installed on your even if you delete it can messed up your system. If you are smart enough you should be able to have a functional Treo other wise get a Sidekick.

    Al
  11. #11  
    I actually wrote this in another thread. But, I think it probably close to what "most" feel about the 650.
    -----------

    I would venture to say that 90% of us are satisfied. I have maybe one reset a month. I restart my PC more than that. I use my Treo for not only a phone but to listen to music, watch movies, navigate via GPS, receive and send work email, send and receive personal email, configure quotes for clients using the web, create Word and Excel files, give presentations from PowerPoint, maintain all of my 1000 contacts, balance my checkbook, maintain all my passwords for various accounts, oh yeah and play games, plus a host of other tasks I'm not even thinking about right now. And I can do all of this with a device that fits in my pocket. One reset a month; hell, one a week would make this thing still a better "tool" than my PC since there is no way I can stay in an office.
    --------

    Good Luck,
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by paulshu
    I really appreciate the tips, but I don't have the time or patience to play nursemaid to my device...

    The Treo is not a toy. If you find it too complicated for your skills, or perhaps too time demanding, then perhaps you should get a simpler device.
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  13. mgauss's Avatar
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    #13  
    Dear Mr. Colligan,

    Make the Treo 700 a Treo 650 with improvements, but ship it bundled with "the good software" and keep a Very Strick list of approved software. You cannot have 20,000 applications crashing your Treos. 1 crash deters 10 buyers. At this point, if my wife or kids wanted a phone, I could not recomment the Treo, because as it stands, the Treo is an enthusiast's phone. We Treo lovers put up with wathever. I love my Treo, but I have stopped adding software to it because I am afraid to create crashes, resets, or problems with my desktop.

    Now that Apple is lauching the iPhone, the Treo will have the opportunity to be the upper end. Make it the upper end, not the crashy end.
  14. #14  
    this is the very reason you have a certain amount of time to test the device, and if your not satisfied then you return it. the memory issue was there when you bought the device and you knew it (or at least you should have, by researching before you bought) but you still purchased it. and im guessing kept the device past the return period. now you complain . my treo has worked fine since i got it, and any bugginess came with the addition of 3rd party apps. i dont know if you know it or not but they cant keep 650s in stock, no carrier (i.e. sprint, cingular). it a great product IMO. thats why i kept it past the return period. not telling you how to feel sir, just stating my opinion
    Wisdom sheds light on the knowledge you have accumulated

    Palm Pre (Sprint)
  15. #15  
    If you are going to write a letter, make sure you write a real letter and notarize it and mail it. And make it in decent length. A letter with two paragraphy...nobody will take it seriously.

    danspalmone, have you tried a browser that behave like your old m515 browser, namely xiino. It doesn't work with table/javascript/picture/color and it's fast. If you work in IT I guess you already know that.
  16. #16  
    The Treo is still a work in progress. Look at Windows and how long it took to get to a "stable??" Windows XP version. I thing for the most part the Treo works well. Yes, there is some software that is buggy and some of the included software is useless. However, just like a pc, it works better when you do a clean install and not just throw a bunch of programs and utilities in it.

    For the most part, if you read these forums, you will find out which programs work well and how to get the most out of your Treo. For example, it is well known that Chatter is much better than Versamail. It is also well known that ZLauncher will help you maximize the RAM.

    Sure, the Treo is not for everyone but with some patience, it can be an amazing device.
  17. #17  
    I have my cribs, but I guess I agree with the view of many that this is a complex device and requires patience. It is not for those who need it easy. Remember windows?

    But what works me up is why did they remove some of the default apps that came with the T3 or the TT that were of help, like a voice memo tool. I had to download Soundrec to get the functionality up. Palm should realize for many users the default apps are the way to go. Most users want to start using apps, not get basic apps. The ought to bundle the best apps that work and also include good freeware / open source. I would like to see Metro, Showtimes, SoundRec and the like bundled with the Palm or in the CD. This would be a recognition for those developers too.

    Also they should push aggresively a certification prog (dont know if they have one yet) that certifies an app for the device. That will minimise crashes.

    They could also provide a tool free that can intelligently free apps from ROM that a user does not need (I know there are 3rd party tools). That would help users get the best out of the memory/ROM. Better still kill this issue with 128 or more in the next device.

    Hotsync sure needs clean up. Very flaky. Some tool that deals with conduits and their vagaries a lot better. A tool to make Hot syncing easy for custom settings (I know there is a tool here too).

    A launcher that can include apps from the card in the categories. This is basic. An uninstall tool bundled.

    My message to Palm in a nutshell is - improve the user experience by bridging the apps gaps, better memory, better ROM mgmt, app certifation and better bundling.

    It can sure scare a new user if you nead a firmware upgrade, and you see that there a 4 types of resets!

    My 2 Paise worth!
    Palm IIIc -> Palm V -> Sony Clie N610c -> Treo 650
  18.    #18  
    I want to respond to those of you who have defended the Treo by saying it is extremely complex and a work in progres. I do not dispute this, but that's not my beef. Apparently you did not read my earlier post. Here's what I wrote

    "I bought the 650 because I trusted Handspring to deliver on what I view as its brand promise: an ever increasing degree of reliability and convenience with each new product"

    So, I want to ask you guys the following:

    1) Have you owned previous Treos?
    2) Do you agree that Handspring had a reputation for improving the device with each release?
    3) Do you agree that the 650 was a step backward in several major respects (c'mon guys, how can you defend the memory management/stingy onboard memory issue)?

    If you answered 'yes' to all of the above, then I'd like to know why you still defend the device. Otherwise, there's really no point in continuing the dialog because you are arguing against an assertion that I never made.
    Last edited by paulshu; 09/01/2005 at 10:49 AM.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59
    I actually wrote this in another thread. But, I think it probably close to what "most" feel about the 650.
    -----------

    I would venture to say that 90% of us are satisfied. I have maybe one reset a month. I restart my PC more than that. I use my Treo for not only a phone but to listen to music, watch movies, navigate via GPS, receive and send work email, send and receive personal email, configure quotes for clients using the web, create Word and Excel files, give presentations from PowerPoint, maintain all of my 1000 contacts, balance my checkbook, maintain all my passwords for various accounts, oh yeah and play games, plus a host of other tasks I'm not even thinking about right now. And I can do all of this with a device that fits in my pocket. One reset a month; hell, one a week would make this thing still a better "tool" than my PC since there is no way I can stay in an office.
    --------
    Here, here!
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by paulshu
    I want to respond to those of you who have defended the Treo by saying it is extremely complex and a work in progres. I do not dispute this, but that's not my beef. Apparently you did not read my earlier post. Here's what I wrote

    "I bought the 650 because I trusted Handspring to deliver on what I view as its brand promise: an ever increasing degree of reliability and convenience with each new product"

    So, I want to ask you guys the following:

    1) Have you owned previous Treos?
    2) Do you agree that Handspring had a reputation for improving the device with each release?
    3) Do you agree that the 650 was a step backward in several major respects (c'mon guys, how can you defend the memory management/stingy onboard memory issue)?

    If you answered 'yes' to all of the above, then I'd like to know why you still defend the device.
    As I said in an earlier post, I empathize and it's unfortunate the 650 didn't meet your expections. To answer your questions:
    1. Yes. Pilot->Visor->Treo300->Treo600->Treo650

    2. Yes. Unfortunately, Palm is not, and never was, Handspring. That is why Handspring took market share from them - they did smartphones better. The reality is that Handspring is now merged into Palm, so Palm "is what it is" and we can only hope they learn from the Treo600/650 experience and get better.

    3. Ok, I'll give it to you that the NVFS memory management and amount were shortsighted mistakes on their part and there have definitely been early production hardware/firmware problems. The early production problems shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone considering it's the first device to be a small computer+phone that fits in your pocket. However, the better resolution screen, BT, Blazer improvements, and more processing power have been major steps forward.

    Bottom line for me is that I've been disappointed in the problems (especially when I evangelize the benefits to my friends and have to eat crow later) but overall I love my 650, will likely upgrade to what comes out next, and wouldn't trade it for anything else.

    IMHO, the benefits outweigh the problems - especially since I now have all the major problems resolved.
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