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  1. mgauss's Avatar
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       #1  
    It is amazing how varied the 650's complaints are! I think a more closed architecture with "tested programs" would benefit the whole community.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgauss
    It is amazing how varied the 650's complaints are! I think a more closed architecture with "tested programs" would benefit the whole community.
    Youre still carrying yours even though it pulls down your pants. Do you need to start ANOTHER thread complaining about it?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  3. mgauss's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Youre still carrying yours even though it pulls down your pants. Do you need to start ANOTHER thread complaining about it?
    Take down that baby Avatar so that I can give you a good fight, you bullie.
    Last edited by mgauss; 08/23/2005 at 02:37 AM. Reason: correction
  4. #4  
    Ratios, my boy, Ratios.

    If you have 1,000 complaints, then there are probably at leat 1,000,000 users. And half of those belong here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ighlight=pants

    You may qualify as well.

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgauss
    It is amazing how varied the 650's complaints are! I think a more closed architecture with "tested programs" would benefit the whole community.

    I agree, I wish they'd do the same for my pc as well. It crashes sometimes and I'm sure it wouldn't if some third party (microsoft perhaps?) was willing to decide which applications should run on it and limit me to those.
    Hobbyist Software
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by confusedvorlon
    I agree, I wish they'd do the same for my pc as well. It crashes sometimes and I'm sure it wouldn't if some third party (microsoft perhaps?) was willing to decide which applications should run on it and limit me to those.

    PalmSource or Palm does have "PalmCertified" apps. Why can't you limit yourself to those? Why should the OS be closed to fit the needs of any user? I'll take the occasional crashes if it furthers the development of apps like Chatter and VeriChat.
  7. #7  
    Software my friend, software.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgauss
    It is amazing how varied the 650's complaints are! I think a more closed architecture with "tested programs" would benefit the whole community.
    I'm very interested in this. Please list all 1,000 complaints, or how about at least 10% of them.

    Real complaints, not silly ones such as, "My Treo makes like my pants fall down..."
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgelfuso
    Software my friend, software.
    Goobers, my fairweather friend, Goobers.

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  10. #10  
    In case you don't know, palm certified apps are practically worthless themselves, you can use the certified logo if you simply follow a checklist that palm provides indicating you did the "minimal" testing they require... And believe me, it's minimal... Check out their developer site for details.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    In case you don't know, palm certified apps are practically worthless themselves, you can use the certified logo if you simply follow a checklist that palm provides indicating you did the "minimal" testing they require... And believe me, it's minimal... Check out their developer site for details.
    Would we expect anything else from dear old Palm?
  12. #12  
    I like my Treo because it is NOT a closed system. I want a computer that I can carry in my pocket. Something I can add whatever software I want to it, music, videos, expantion cards.
  13. #13  
    If you're seeing a thousand complaints its because every user has a different setup on their phone, a different mix of software then the next guy with a different chance of software conflicts. The exact same software loaded on a Sprint phone and a Cingiular phone will probably cause different "problems"!

    Sure, there are some hardware problems, but for a computer/telephone/low end digital camera that you can carry in your hand, I'm amazed that there aren't more things going wrong.

    I had more problems with my old Mac Plus and early windows machines and they didn't have half the abilities this does.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyedeas
    The exact same software loaded on a Sprint phone and a Cingiular phone will probably cause different "problems"!

    I had more problems with my old Mac Plus and early windows machines and they didn't have half the abilities this does.
    Well put
  15. mgauss's Avatar
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       #15  
    Here is my point: if the management of Palm One had concentrated on providing a crash proof system that did 50 things right, with no crashes, a solid performer (Word, Excel, music, pictures... 50 things is a lot), instead of 500 things in fear (don't tell me when you install a new application you are not popping Xanax), they would have created a following. I know we are all looking at our 650 as if it is a miracle that "that one is not resetting continuously..."

    That following (of a stable system) would have given them loyalty.

    I recently moved from the PC to the MAC. On both the PC and MAC worlds there is still crashes.

    But there were systems that almost never crashed, such as the Palm V and the early Nokia bricks. If that level of dependability (nice for a phone) were to be offered, even at the loss of esoteric applications, my point is it would be better for Palm One and the customers. That is my point. Err on the side of simplicity and less offerings, but make it more stable.

    Also, bundle the main good applications. When I talk to people on the street, invariably they are simple Treo people who are always with what came from the box (the mediocre applications)...I have talked to 10 people with Treos on the street and not one had heard of TreoCentral.

    But I love my Treo. I yell because I care!
  16. #16  
    I don't know what some of you are doing with your Treo, but mine hardly ever crashes. Not counting Blazer, I guess it crashes or gets weird maybe once a month. I reboot my PC more often than that.

    As far as I'm concerned, the Treo (650) is very stable. I'm not sure I'd want it any more "simple" or any less flexible. The base Treo, with no 3rd party software, is pretty darn simple and stable, but if I were limited to that I don't think I'd buy one.

    Oh, and there's a reason the Palm OS doesn't do much in the way of error handling. It's called RAM limitations. I've been a software developer for most of my career, and I can tell you that error trapping and handling is a huge percentage of the typical application's code. Adding all that takes up RAM, and lots of it. On a memory limited handheld, that's the trade-off. I think Palm got the balance pretty much right. I don't want to give up another 4MB for error handling code.

    So yell away, but take a long look at what you've got loaded on your Treo, first, before blaming Palm.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgauss
    Here is my point: if the management of Palm One had concentrated on providing a crash proof system that did 50 things right, with no crashes, a solid performer (Word, Excel, music, pictures... 50 things is a lot), instead of 500 things in fear (don't tell me when you install a new application you are not popping Xanax), they would have created a following. I know we are all looking at our 650 as if it is a miracle that "that one is not resetting continuously..."

    That following (of a stable system) would have given them loyalty.

    I recently moved from the PC to the MAC. On both the PC and MAC worlds there is still crashes.

    But there were systems that almost never crashed, such as the Palm V and the early Nokia bricks. If that level of dependability (nice for a phone) were to be offered, even at the loss of esoteric applications, my point is it would be better for Palm One and the customers. That is my point. Err on the side of simplicity and less offerings, but make it more stable.

    Also, bundle the main good applications. When I talk to people on the street, invariably they are simple Treo people who are always with what came from the box (the mediocre applications)...I have talked to 10 people with Treos on the street and not one had heard of TreoCentral.

    But I love my Treo. I yell because I care!

    If you want a closed system then get a blackberry...or the future PalmOS feature phone...

    In any case, there is some merit to the closed sys agruement and the wild success of RIM is a testament to that. But I don't think this applies to PalmOS Garnet/Cobalt. For one, one the main reasons why RIM is so successful is that there were the first in the industry to offer the push email solution. Thus they have a lead and cushion of extablished userbase often sometimes locked to their platform. PalmOS does not have that luxury..but what they do have is flexibility. PalmSource is developing a 'Featreu phone' product with palmOS UI that will be a closed sys akin to Series 60 etc and will allow more of the standardized environment that is being argued here. They also willcontinue to offer Cobatl for smartphones and Palm linux in the future to those who want the full funcitonality of the OS. In the end I think it depends on the user on how much flexibility and power they want in the device...
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  18. #18  
    Don't forget that people are more likely to post complaints than they are kudos. And I agree that most of the problems are caused by software.
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
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  19. mgauss's Avatar
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       #19  
    What I was trying to do is help PalmOne. There is no question that the future is coming fast, and that email and browsing on the phone will become the common features of many phones in the future.

    My point (in helping PalmOne) is that they could have hooked us with a solution that satisfied 90% of us, with the proper bundle, and as much crash proof behavior as possible.

    The world is moving fast, there is no time to retrain, and if one feels comfortable with a product and its future versions one tends to stick with it, even if the competition overlaps and even gets better from time to time.

    But has PalmOne done that? Loyalty? No. It has created a quirky, moody, unstable, undependable system we are all going to jump ship from the minute something better comes. Cause "something better" is around the corner. I have stopped looking for new applications to put on my 650, cause I know better.

    I see it as a held together with scotch tape system and I don't trust it. And you know, a phone has a lot of responsibilities...it is a serious thing.

    A phone is not something that should err on the side of performance, but rather err on the side of dependability. Ask those whose Treos started resetting continously when trying to get directions in traffic and were late for their meeting.

    The software in it should be tested ("plays well with others") and there should be emergency buttons to put it on "safe mode" in order to go back to being a simple phone so that one can call 911. Or get one's email.

    I would quickly give up half my programs in order to feel more dependable. 5000 messages that Butler crashed the phone. Or didn't. You expect normal people (not us forum nerds) to cope and put up with that? My brother returned his Palm phone cause it gave him trouble.

    There are 1 billion cell phones in the world now. What is the growth rate of PalmOne? Is it on track to capture any of that market share? No. Why? Because it is a complicated, unstable platform.

    Better a simpler, rock solid platform. All 90 or 98% of the world needs is email, browsing, word, excel, pictures, jpegs, ICQ, music. Now to get more software, there should be like an inquisition to make sure we don't introduce unstable behavior.

    This is not a laptop. Its a phone. A laptop has more error handling capabilities, and it does not have that "I gotta use the phone urgency" to it.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by JHromadka
    Don't forget that people are more likely to post complaints than they are kudos. And I agree that most of the problems are caused by software.
    I agree with you. I have had my Treo650 since the middle of June. The only times I have had any problems in the way of crashes, etc have been when I have installed hacks and other (untested or not sufficiently tested) 3rd party applications.

    From what I have read in this forum and from what I gather from other Treo 650 users, the only time problems were encountered were as a result of incompatable software and not the hardware itself.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Stalker768
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