View Poll Results: Could do the following really well?

Voters
91. You may not vote on this poll
  • Phone, Internet, Camera(Basically an much improved Treo)

    33 36.26%
  • Phone, Internet, Camera, Ipod(with the ability to download music from itunes store)

    18 19.78%
  • Phone, Internet Camera, Ipod, TV

    19 20.88%
  • Phone, Internet, Camera, Ipod, TV, and maybe print pictures wirelessly(say at a kiosk)

    20 21.98%
  • Forget all of the above and just give me a Phone!

    1 1.10%
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  1.    #1  
    I see phones evolving in to an all in one device... they seem to do many things and do it poorly most of the time... I would like to see a device that does a lot and does it goood...

    so would you want a phone around the same size as a treo that could....

    The Reason I ask is cause I hear/see the rumors of the Itunes phone coming and i see samsung making a big megapixel phone.... would you like to see an all in one device?
    Last edited by iwantansi; 08/04/2005 at 10:28 PM.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by iwantansi
    so would you want a phone around the same size as a treo that could....
    ...make people stop complaining about what their phone won't do.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #3  
  4. #4  
    It's funny you posted this, I just thought of something the other day. Why can't the Treo line be more like other cell phones and PDAs in the respect of having varied models divulging from a base model (similar to the current Treo):

    -A imaging-focused Treo, with a multi-megapixel camera, standalone-digital-camera-looking back, 2 fast SD slots (or 1 SD and 1 CF) and a rotatable screen for taking pics horizontally

    -A media-oriented Treo, with large (hopefully) VGA res. screen (rotateable, as well), CF slot, internal HDD (not in the 10+ GB range, as it would hinder size), and liscensed, prettied up version of TCPMP (I'm sure the guy writing would love the publicity and liscensing fees) with a nice, orange-colored, Palm-branded UI good for playing videos, still pictures and music (all with as many formats as possible)

    -A messaging/web-oriented Treo, with fixed landscape screen, large keyboard, EV-DO (for CDMA'ers, UMTS/HSDPA for GSM'ers), Wifi (cause WiMax is still a ways off, unfortunately) and an incredible text/picture/email messaging app (maybe liscensed from Chattermail and Palm-branded?) and a good IM app (liscensed from Verichat?)

    -A base model Treo (the "plane-Jane" Treo, so to speak, similar to what we have now, with moderate improvements)

    -A looks-like-a-regular-cell-phone Treo, with a standard numeric keyboard (sliding, maybe) and mainly phone-focused apps

    *DISCLAIMER*All of the above is purely my musings, and in no way representative of what Palm may plan to do/be doing/have done.

  5. #5  
    I chose option 2...
    I'm not weird... I'm gifted!!!
  6. #6  
    option 17
  7. #7  
    Heh....is this a trick question?? It's like asking, would you rather have $1, $5, $10, $20, or $0?

    I personally wouldn't care about the wirelessly printing at kiosks, but if it's there...why not?

    I'd rather see everything that's going to be in the next Treo on a clamshell device with Palm Linux. Then I'll let Palm[Source] take a rest.
  8. #8  
    the treo can do all that now if other would co-operate.

    you cant get itunes music now, because apple doesnt want you to. you can now get other music stores songs.

    printing wirelessly to kiosk would only need the kiosk to do bluetooth.

    arent they testind "live" tv now. If not, I watch not live tv all the time. using beyond tv record mpg of show and either copy them to the sd card or convert them to kinoma first.

    DJ, palm is always talking about different treos for different segments. as you know, it hasnt happened yet.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by djfusion
    It's funny you posted this, I just thought of something the other day. Why can't the Treo line be more like other cell phones and PDAs in the respect of having varied models divulging from a base model (similar to the current Treo):

    -A imaging-focused Treo, with a multi-megapixel camera, standalone-digital-camera-looking back, 2 fast SD slots (or 1 SD and 1 CF) and a rotatable screen for taking pics horizontally

    -A media-oriented Treo, with large (hopefully) VGA res. screen (rotateable, as well), CF slot, internal HDD (not in the 10+ GB range, as it would hinder size), and liscensed, prettied up version of TCPMP (I'm sure the guy writing would love the publicity and liscensing fees) with a nice, orange-colored, Palm-branded UI good for playing videos, still pictures and music (all with as many formats as possible)

    -A messaging/web-oriented Treo, with fixed landscape screen, large keyboard, EV-DO (for CDMA'ers, UMTS/HSDPA for GSM'ers), Wifi (cause WiMax is still a ways off, unfortunately) and an incredible text/picture/email messaging app (maybe liscensed from Chattermail and Palm-branded?) and a good IM app (liscensed from Verichat?)

    -A base model Treo (the "plane-Jane" Treo, so to speak, similar to what we have now, with moderate improvements)

    -A looks-like-a-regular-cell-phone Treo, with a standard numeric keyboard (sliding, maybe) and mainly phone-focused apps

    *DISCLAIMER*All of the above is purely my musings, and in no way representative of what Palm may plan to do/be doing/have done.

    But then the devices wouldn't be Treos. The whole purpose of an all-in-one device is to do all of the things we want equally well in one device. On the "looks-like-a-regular-cell-phone Treo", changing the form-factor would blur the focus and the device wouldn't be a Treo because it would be no good for e-mail.

    If the form-factor (look and feel) were maintained between all the models, I could see different bundling agreements bringing in different price points. Perhaps more internal memory for power users (128MB) and 64MB for "regular" users.

    But I'm concerned about how this would be received. The general public is only marginally aware of the Treo as it stands. I still have people referring to my Treo as a Blackberry. They don't know what a Treo even looks like, much less why they would even want one. So before Palm worries about loading the Treo line up with different models, they should focus on REAL marketing and getting REGULAR people out there (not just us gadget geeks) to RECOGNIZE a Treo and what it can do that Blackberries CAN'T. How much Treo wow-factor do you think is getting passed to Blackberries because people pass by in the office, see it doing something, but just think it's a Blackberry? A lot, I can assure you.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    the treo can do all that now if other would co-operate.
    Nope...cooperation doesn't have anything to do with true hardware and software limitations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    you cant get itunes music now, because apple doesnt want you to. you can now get other music stores songs.
    There is no program/service for downloading music OTA!! Of course anybody can download a song from itunes on their desktop....but I think the poster was referring to downloading straight from the Treo. Obviously this isn't practicle for the most part....give it another year or two at the most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    printing wirelessly to kiosk would only need the kiosk to do bluetooth.
    Right..."only"! Just like we only need hydrogen tanks to run all the cars on the road today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    arent they testind "live" tv now. If not, I watch not live tv all the time. using beyond tv record mpg of show and either copy them to the sd card or convert them to kinoma first.
    Yea, well...live TV sucks now, and will until some high speed radios (evdo and/or wifi) get in the Treo. And obviously, beyondtv is not live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    DJ, palm is always talking about different treos for different segments. as you know, it hasnt happened yet.
    The 650 was their first friggin' phone, folks....give 'em just a little time for cryin' out loud. If they don't have 4 or more Treos on the market within the next 18-24 months, I'll call them fulla crap with their whole "Family of Treos" lingo.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    But then the devices wouldn't be Treos. The whole purpose of an all-in-one device is to do all of the things we want equally well in one device. On the "looks-like-a-regular-cell-phone Treo", changing the form-factor would blur the focus and the device wouldn't be a Treo because it would be no good for e-mail.

    If the form-factor (look and feel) were maintained between all the models, I could see different bundling agreements bringing in different price points. Perhaps more internal memory for power users (128MB) and 64MB for "regular" users.
    Umm...changing the form factor isn't necessarily a bad thing. Look at the form factors HTC comes up with....I think a clamshell (that acted as a candybar phone with a regular keypad when closed) would be the best possible form factor for a smartphone, myself.

    As everybody here already knows the keyboard is the key! A regular Treo with ONLY a regular keypad will never exist. There's no point when the cost of a 650 will drop to $200 (maybe less) soon enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    But I'm concerned about how this would be received. The general public is only marginally aware of the Treo as it stands. I still have people referring to my Treo as a Blackberry. They don't know what a Treo even looks like, much less why they would even want one. So before Palm worries about loading the Treo line up with different models, they should focus on REAL marketing and getting REGULAR people out there (not just us gadget geeks) to RECOGNIZE a Treo and what it can do that Blackberries CAN'T. How much Treo wow-factor do you think is getting passed to Blackberries because people pass by in the office, see it doing something, but just think it's a Blackberry? A lot, I can assure you.
    Your points were very well received. 95% of the people who mention something about my phone immediately blurt out that name - BLACKBERRY! AHHH!!! It drives me crazy to have to explain to all of them that it's a Palm device. At least it's better than when I said PalmOne....all of 'em questioned, "Who?" I said it's the company that used to make the Palm Pilot. "Ahhh", they say. Now more than half of the people I tell it's a Palm understand what company I'm talking about. St00pit Palm marketing - get with the program already!

    Anyway, for "REGULAR" peope to use the 650, it just needs to be cheap enough so that those who already have them convince their friends by word of mouth that it's easily a more economical decision as you can keep the phone for 4 years and be happier than keeping a phone for 2 years or less and spending that $150 credit they receive from signing a contract.

    And for it to become MAINSTREAM....it needs Palm Linux to make the OS easier to newer users!!!! Palm's dominance over Blackberry relies on price and mostly PalmSource.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Umm...changing the form factor isn't necessarily a bad thing. Look at the form factors HTC comes up with....I think a clamshell (that acted as a candybar phone with a regular keypad when closed) would be the best possible form factor for a smartphone, myself.
    I'm not saying that the form-factor shouldn't be changed at all. I'm just saying that if the form-factor is changed, it should be maintained for all the models in the line. I don't see the point of having a different form-factor for a multimedia-based Treo vs. an e-mail-based Treo. Keep it the same. That way, when people see a Treo on the street they can recognize it. I can assure you that everyone knows what a Motorola RAZR looks like.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Anyway, for "REGULAR" peope to use the 650, it just needs to be cheap enough so that those who already have them convince their friends by word of mouth that it's easily a more economical decision as you can keep the phone for 4 years and be happier than keeping a phone for 2 years or less and spending that $150 credit they receive from signing a contract.

    And for it to become MAINSTREAM....it needs Palm Linux to make the OS easier to newer users!!!! Palm's dominance over Blackberry relies on price and mostly PalmSource.
    Cost is definately a factor for the average Joe/Jane. We've become spoiled by cheap/free phones from carriers.

    But in order for Palm to overtake RIM's Blackberry, it would need a way to infiltrate/utilize the corporate world's investment in Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES). Let's face it. Corporations have invested in it and unless Palm can say "Our Treo can use that too", they might as well be talking to a brick wall. E-mail is the killer app for a smart phone.

    Even though the Treo has other options for doing the same thing, no IT department is going to support two systems, and no IT department is going to completely change their server-based solution to accomodate the Treo, unless the Treo can bring something to the table (a KILLER app) that the Blackberry can't produce. It simply wouldn't be cost-effective. Not to mention, the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) aspects.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    I'm not saying that the form-factor shouldn't be changed at all. I'm just saying that if the form-factor is changed, it should be maintained for all the models in the line. I don't see the point of having a different form-factor for a multimedia-based Treo vs. an e-mail-based Treo. Keep it the same. That way, when people see a Treo on the street they can recognize it. I can assure you that everyone knows what a Motorola RAZR looks like.
    I understand your point of same form factor now...it's about marketing. Rightly so, the Treo brand should maintain the candybar style, and a newer Quatro or something should have a newer clamshell style. But they shouldn't remove the Treo line because they've released a Quatro line. Everybody recognizes the RAZR because of tons of money on marketing (I've maybe seen like 1 commercial with a Treo in it, and it was a Verizon commercial if I recall correctly...not really pushing the Palm brand; how can Palm be so ditzy when it comes to business?) but you don't see Motorola calling all its flip phones RAZR, do you??

    I don't think that any company is going to just maintain one single form factor for all of their cell phones....it's just not the competitive way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    But in order for Palm to overtake RIM's Blackberry, it would need a way to infiltrate/utilize the corporate world's investment in Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES). Let's face it. Corporations have invested in it and unless Palm can say "Our Treo can use that too", they might as well be talking to a brick wall. E-mail is the killer app for a smart phone.
    Umm....what's wrong with using a free fusemail or aim account with Chatter?? Sure, it doesn't come stock with the Treo, but Palm and PalmSource have bigger fish to fry than to compete with free/chap services....there's also yahoo and one or two other companies with push email.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    Even though the Treo has other options for doing the same thing, no IT department is going to support two systems, and no IT department is going to completely change their server-based solution to accomodate the Treo, unless the Treo can bring something to the table (a KILLER app) that the Blackberry can't produce. It simply wouldn't be cost-effective. Not to mention, the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) aspects.
    Many people here have their business email forwarded to fusemail and have their return address the same as their business email....no problems whatsoever. They can even have multiple accounts one for business, one for personal, etc.

    I haven't used a Blackberry, but I doubt it has half the email potential Treos have. And I KNOW it doesn't half a tenth the potential Treos have in every other area.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I understand your point of same form factor now...it's about marketing. Rightly so, the Treo brand should maintain the candybar style, and a newer Quatro or something should have a newer clamshell style. But they shouldn't remove the Treo line because they've released a Quatro line. Everybody recognizes the RAZR because of tons of money on marketing (I've maybe seen like 1 commercial with a Treo in it, and it was a Verizon commercial if I recall correctly...not really pushing the Palm brand; how can Palm be so ditzy when it comes to business?) but you don't see Motorola calling all its flip phones RAZR, do you??

    I don't think that any company is going to just maintain one single form factor for all of their cell phones....it's just not the competitive way.
    No argument there. The point is to capitalize on brand recognition. The Treo is out there, but people don't know about it. I've seen the Treo in a Verizon commercial and also (to a greater degree) in a Cingular commercial. In both cases, the Treo was merely shown. It's name was not mentioned, and the screens were faked for television so you didn't even see the real interface of the phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Umm....what's wrong with using a free fusemail or aim account with Chatter?? Sure, it doesn't come stock with the Treo, but Palm and PalmSource have bigger fish to fry than to compete with free/chap services....there's also yahoo and one or two other companies with push email.
    There's nothing wrong with that. I use Fastmail and forward mail from various POP3 accounts. Unfortunately, unless people are told about these solutions in advance, they don't see them as a feature (and reason) to get a Treo. The gold standard for mobile e-mail is a Blackberry, regardless of how much better a Treo may be able to do it (with the appropriate support software). The fact that a Blackberry comes out of the box with everything you need for its killer application (e-mail), is part of the reason for its success.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Many people here have their business email forwarded to fusemail and have their return address the same as their business email....no problems whatsoever. They can even have multiple accounts one for business, one for personal, etc.
    That is simply not an option for many people whose policies don't allow mail forwarding. For example, any business who is contracting with the military can forget about forwarding e-mail to non military/government addresses. You can do it manually with your e-mail client (leaving it open on your desktop), but not at the server level where it is most effective.

    For the same reasons that no forwarding is allowed, many businesses are behind firewalls that don't allow clients that aren't on the network to access their mail (SMTP) servers. There are many roadblocks to utilizing a program like ChatterEmail in a security-conscious business environment. (That's why Sprint can get away with Business Connect. For a lot of people there is no other choice, due to the corporate IT security policies in place where they work.)

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I haven't used a Blackberry, but I doubt it has half the email potential Treos have. And I KNOW it doesn't half a tenth the potential Treos have in every other area.
    This is true, but it doesn't mean anything if the potential isn't marketed and supported by Palm or embraced by the decision-makers in the corporate world. To unseat Blackberries, many things would have to change. It's not a likely scenario.

    I HAVE used a Blackberry, and without a doubt, WITH the support of the BES, the Blackberry is good at what it does: provide access to CORPORATE e-mail in a timely manner. Now, can the Treo do the same thing if it had a dedicated server sitting in the server farm of the corporation who has already invested in BES? Sure it could. Can the Treo do the same thing IF the IT department enabled IMAP (with IDLE) on their mail servers and opened up the firewall so that it could be accessed from a phone carrier's network? Sure it could. Is that going to happen in any security-conscious business? No way!

    So, you see, there is more to market penetration than commercials on TV. Palm needs to consider a TOTAL solution (like RIM did with the Blackberry), and market it as such, if they are going to advance on the business world to unseat RIM's Blackberry.

    It's a lot easier on the consumer side. We have lots of options for e-mail service. All Palm would need to do is get in bed with one of them (and provide a really good e-mail client like ChatterEmail) that provides that seemless PUSH e-mail experience that Blackberry users have become used to.

    Either that, or at least provide (in the box) a list of solutions. People shouldn't have to come to message boards like TreoCentral to find out about how to do PUSH e-mail on a Treo. Nor should they have to come here to find out that it is EVEN POSSIBLE. Many dismiss the Treo because they think it isn't possible on a Treo. Once again, a marketing failure on Palm's part. Word of mouth only goes so far. To reach the masses, Palm needs to get in gear and do some real marketing. But if they do, they had better be prepared on the other end: DISTRIBUTION, QUALITY CONTROL, and SUPPORT.

    Until Palm reaches critical mass like Micro$oft (fat chance ), they can't afford to have great marketing and then drop the ball on the other three aspects. Even Micro$oft takes black eyes when Windoze acts up. It's just that they can afford better "doctors" to clean up the mess. Palm can't--At least, not yet.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  15. #15  
    I just pop my SD out and pop it into the kiosk - FASTER than wireless!!!
    Bob
  16. #16  
    It does all of this now - and will be even better next rev...

    Phone - works as well as any other phone
    Internet - best of breed now - and even faster when evdo breaks
    Camera - does a good job for what it is - quick fun camera
    iPod - Y! Music unlimited and PTunes 3.1 - 1mm songs - and live streaming
    TV - Slingbox is developing treo functionality
    Wireless Printing - beam, bluetooth, email, sd card - what more do you need?

    The Treo is best of breed now and will stay ahead of the curve with the next rev.
  17. #17  
    I want all the Treo has now and one more thing. Yea, I keep saying it .

    Slingbox compatibility

    So I selected "Phone, Internet Camera, Ipod, TV".
  18. Mateen's Avatar
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    #18  
    Give me a phone that works good and has a Palm operating system on it. I strongly believe that there is a big market for it. Dont even need the camera or Web or email capabilities.
    Did not vote since there was no such option to choose in the multiple choice question.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    That is simply not an option for many people whose policies don't allow mail forwarding. For example, any business who is contracting with the military can forget about forwarding e-mail to non military/government addresses. You can do it manually with your e-mail client (leaving it open on your desktop), but not at the server level where it is most effective.

    For the same reasons that no forwarding is allowed, many businesses are behind firewalls that don't allow clients that aren't on the network to access their mail (SMTP) servers. There are many roadblocks to utilizing a program like ChatterEmail in a security-conscious business environment. (That's why Sprint can get away with Business Connect. For a lot of people there is no other choice, due to the corporate IT security policies in place where they work.)
    Security conscious businesses would definitely benefit from something like BES. But I don't think either Palm or PalmSource is all that worried about corporate email right at this moment. You find a percentage of security conscious Blackberry users that NEED BES versus just push imap like Chatter....and if it were large enough, maybe I'd say Palm would need to fool around with it. But there's plenty more work to do than just email at this moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    Either that, or at least provide (in the box) a list of solutions. People shouldn't have to come to message boards like TreoCentral to find out about how to do PUSH e-mail on a Treo. Nor should they have to come here to find out that it is EVEN POSSIBLE. Many dismiss the Treo because they think it isn't possible on a Treo. Once again, a marketing failure on Palm's part. Word of mouth only goes so far. To reach the masses, Palm needs to get in gear and do some real marketing. But if they do, they had better be prepared on the other end: DISTRIBUTION, QUALITY CONTROL, and SUPPORT.
    I really wish we'd have a Wiki here at TreoCentral so that we wouldn't have to re-hash stuff over and over, again and again. It would be soo easy for Palm to even start their own Wiki section to help users with the virtually unlimited possibilities of setting up applications on their new smartphone. They could have a small slip of paper with the URL to the Treo's PDF manual and the URL to a Wiki/Disccusion Board, whether it be here or at Palm.com.

    They just drop in that slip of paper and call it a day with support (that'd be a lot more than what they do now). All they'd have to do is focus on quality control...that's it. Distribution will definitely handle itself if the product is worthy of itself.
  20. akula34's Avatar
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    689 Global Posts
    #20  
    I don't even want a camera on my Treo. I work for the government and can't use it at work. I'm lucky I'm even allowed to bring it on the sub!! I have a camera for taking pictures. Get rid of the useless camera and give me a vibrate function that I can actually feel.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
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