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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    Before you get upset about the price, you should know that the MatrixSSL library was not free for Marc to use in the product. He had to license it on our behalf. ...and if I'm not mistaken, that extra $10 only covers the cost of the MatrixSSL license. There is no profit in it for Marc.

    If you're going to get mad at anyone, get mad at PalmSource for their crappy SSL library that won't operate in the background.
    That's not really the point. I just feel misled. To me, "true push" if your server supports it means that, out-of-the-box, the application works. I could understand if there was a limitation of the server that prevented me from using the application, but this is really a limited version of the application.

    And besides, I could download it and build it myself for free if the directions were provided and he wouldn't have to pay for those licenses....

    Of course I'm not going to build it myself and I'll probably end up buying it but that doesn't make me happy about it.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by torifile
    That's not really the point. I just feel misled. To me, "true push" if your server supports it means that, out-of-the-box, the application works. I could understand if there was a limitation of the server that prevented me from using the application, but this is really a limited version of the application.

    And besides, I could download it and build it myself for free if the directions were provided and he wouldn't have to pay for those licenses....

    Of course I'm not going to build it myself and I'll probably end up buying it but that doesn't make me happy about it.
    It DOES offer "true push" out-of-the-box if you don't use SSL. There's no false advertising.

    And how could you do it for free unless you illegally used the technology without paying for the license? The commercial library Marc used is NOT free. Period.

    By the way, if I recall correctly, Marc even posed the question to the Chatter users at the time whether they wanted him to go with MatrixSSL or to try and develop something on his own. People voted to go with Matrix.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    It DOES offer "true push" out-of-the-box if you don't use SSL. There's no false advertising.

    And how could you do it for free unless you illegally used the technology without paying for the license? The commercial library Marc used is NOT free. Period.

    By the way, if I recall correctly, Marc even posed the question to the Chatter users at the time whether they wanted him to go with MatrixSSL or to try and develop something on his own. People voted to go with Matrix.
    I can download the source code from peersec myself. It's GPLed. The only time you have to pay for a GPL software license is if you sell it (like Marc's doing).

    And I didn't say "false advertising". I said misled. And I was.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by torifile
    I can download the source code from peersec myself. It's GPLed. The only time you have to pay for a GPL software license is if you sell it (like Marc's doing).

    And I didn't say "false advertising". I said misled. And I was.
    Sorry you feel misled, but the facts are right on the ChatterEmail features page: http://www.chatteremail.com/index.ph...d=36&Itemid=81

    Chatter email features :
    True “push”, two-way syncing of messages
    Timed or manual “QuickSync”
    Full POP3 server support
    Full IMAP server support
    Up to 8 online mailboxes ( True Push )
    Up to 128 active mailboxes supported
    Innovative, color-coded “Summary” Mailbox
    Addressee’s auto-complete from your Contacts
    Addressee’s from recently used addresses
    Syncing of sent messages back to IMAP server
    Full background and “while asleep” operation
    Full asynchronous operation
    Wide range of notification options
    SSL support (foreground only)
    Attachment reading (with third-party applications)
    Multiple message selection (delete, move, mark )
    NO third-party “intermediate” server required
    NO recurring fees
    NO desktop redirector required
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    Sorry you feel misled, but the facts are right on the ChatterEmail features page: http://www.chatteremail.com/index.ph...d=36&Itemid=81

    Chatter email features :
    True “push”, two-way syncing of messages
    Timed or manual “QuickSync”
    Full POP3 server support
    Full IMAP server support
    Up to 8 online mailboxes ( True Push )
    Up to 128 active mailboxes supported
    Innovative, color-coded “Summary” Mailbox
    Addressee’s auto-complete from your Contacts
    Addressee’s from recently used addresses
    Syncing of sent messages back to IMAP server
    Full background and “while asleep” operation
    Full asynchronous operation
    Wide range of notification options
    SSL support (foreground only)
    Attachment reading (with third-party applications)
    Multiple message selection (delete, move, mark )
    NO third-party “intermediate” server required
    NO recurring fees
    NO desktop redirector required
    I got that. Only after I plunked down the money. But, like I said, I'll end up buying it anyway. Buyer beware. (And I was still misled. )
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by torifile
    I got that. Only after I plunked down the money. But, like I said, I'll end up buying it anyway. Buyer beware. (And I was still misled. )
    Ahh, the eternal denial of self-responsibility. You just HAD to be misled. Heaven forbid that you actually check things out before you put your money down.

    Hmmm, isn't there a 30-day free trial for ChatterEmail? I would think a month would be enough time to figure out if it meets your needs.

    Oh well... Yes, buyer beware. Always good advice.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  7. #87  
    torifile -

    You may FEEL misled, but that's a whole other thing than actually BEING misled.

    Background SSL capability isn't part of the Palm OS, and (as Gadget said) I don't make any money selling the Matrix package. None. And also (as Gadget said) there is a 30 day trial.

    As far as the Matrix package and GPL, you are again showing your ignorance (yes, sorry, but you **** me off). The package that I provide is NOT under GPL, it's the commercial package that supports AES and TLS; there are any number of reasons that I find the GPL version inappropriate for my users.

    In any event, I've refunded your $32; I don't need this kind of BS from my customers, so I'd prefer it if you'd take your business elsewhere.

    Marc
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by mblank
    torifile -

    You may FEEL misled, but that's a whole other thing than actually BEING misled.

    Background SSL capability isn't part of the Palm OS, and (as Gadget said) I don't make any money selling the Matrix package. None. And also (as Gadget said) there is a 30 day trial.

    As far as the Matrix package and GPL, you are again showing your ignorance (yes, sorry, but you **** me off). The package that I provide is NOT under GPL, it's the commercial package that supports AES and TLS; there are any number of reasons that I find the GPL version inappropriate for my users.

    In any event, I've refunded your $32; I don't need this kind of BS from my customers, so I'd prefer it if you'd take your business elsewhere.

    Marc
    Dude, that was uncalled for. I was actually enjoying the opportunity to discuss this with people. Had you come in and said what you did above, that would have been the end of it. Did you notice the at the end of my last post? That meant I was OVER it and realized it was my fault. There really was no reason to get huffy over it.

    Again, since the above was YOUR first post on this issue in this thread, I think you're overreacting.
  9. #89  
    Well... Now that we've gotten that out of our systems....

    The debate over which e-mail program is best is as controversial as the one over which word processor is best. It's a matter of opinion and it all depends.

    It depends on what you need. In my opinion, ChatterEmail offers the best overall feature set. Not to take anything away from other solutions, but given the extra requirements of other solutions like Good or Seven (Sprint BC), etc, it's hard for me to imagine my Treo without ChatterEmail. I've grown to love the product. It gives me what I need without taking over my Treo.

    The level of service and feedback is unmatched. It's an evolving product, and as such, I'm a little more tollorant of "issues" that crop up because I know that they are being actively addressed. ...and I like to support a developer that is willing to go the extra mile to see that I get a quality product that meets my needs.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  10. #90  
    Chatter and Seven cover two separate needs. Chatter won't do push e-mail from Outlook/Exchange. I consider Chatter to be an alternative to Versamail (VM).

    My thoughts are: I'm already stuck with VM (I don't do custom ROMS). I can add XpressMail and get POP/IMAP/Exchange(push).

    Adding Chatter will take RAM and will replace VM (while adding push IMAP). What about Exchange? I'll still need to add Seven, or Good or something for that.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Chatter and Seven cover two separate needs. Chatter won't do push e-mail from Outlook/Exchange. I consider Chatter to be an alternative to Versamail (VM).

    My thoughts are: I'm already stuck with VM (I don't do custom ROMS). I can add XpressMail and get POP/IMAP/Exchange(push).

    Adding Chatter will take RAM and will replace VM (while adding push IMAP). What about Exchange? I'll still need to add Seven, or Good or something for that.
    You have a point, if you're looking for full contacts, e-mail, etc. integration. But Exchange will do IMAP (if administrators turn it on), so you could use Chatter with Exchange, and you wouldn't need a desktop redirector like you need with the "personal" versions of Seven's products.

    The limitation with getting Exchange e-mail isn't really with Chatter as much as it is with most business's IT security policies for what they will and will not allow through their firewalls.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  12. #92  
    Chatter may yet do Exchange directly...

    Marc
  13. #93  
    torifile -

    No, you weren't discussing, you were ranting - over and over. Misled, "buyer beware"...

    Even a relatively arm's length relationship like this (customer/developer) is based on trust; if you think you're being scammed by me, that's the end of the relationship right there. You're welcome to your money back and the program; just don't expect anything else.

    Marc
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by mblank
    torifile -

    No, you weren't discussing, you were ranting - over and over. Misled, "buyer beware"...

    Even a relatively arm's length relationship like this (customer/developer) is based on trust; if you think you're being scammed by me, that's the end of the relationship right there. You're welcome to your money back and the program; just don't expect anything else.

    Marc
    Wow. What you have in technical savvy, you lack in people skills.

    And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said or implied "scammed". You put that word on the discussion.

    You could have made this situation a much more pleasant one if you had just posted the explanation about the software without all the attacks. Personally, I'm inclined to say "screw off" to you but I'm not that kind of person. I wish you the best of luck at building a viable business with your "customer service" oriented attitude....
  15. URPREY's Avatar
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    #95  
    I'm with Marc on this one. Torifile was only trying to cause trouble.
  16. #96  
    "Scammed", "misled", "ripped off"... WHATEVER!

    Keep in mind that when a person says they feel like they've been "misled" or "ripped off", it implies that they feel they have been lied to. So don't be surprised if someone takes offense to being called a liar.

    This was all a misunderstanding that got out of hand. Torifile, you were upset that you didn't know about the limitations of the PalmSSL library. But instead of asking "Why do we have to pay for the background SSL capability?", you accused the developer of ripping you off: "I'm feeling ripped off.... GPL and all..." (your words).

    It's been explained. Rather than ruin a good thing, just bury the hatchet and let it go.

    Marc,

    I understand the frustration. It's not easy supporting a product. A lot of yourself goes into it. Obviously, you need a "thick skin" to provide any type of customer service to people...because people are generally rude, inconsiderate, and selfish when it comes to parting with their money. They don't always think before they speak. Let it go.

    Life is too short.
    Last edited by Insp_Gadget; 08/16/2005 at 01:40 PM.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by URPREY
    I'm with Marc on this one. Torifile was only trying to cause trouble.
    Ditto. Waaaahhhh!!!!!!! I didn't read the features before I bought something. Waaaahhhh!!!

    Waaaahhh!!!!! I won't tell you to screw off, instead, I will be a chicken sh!t and say "I'm inclined to...but I won't"....this way I can still say it, without having the balls to do so outright. Waaahhhhhh!!!!! Waaaahhh, I need to insult the developer, because of my own stupidity!! Waaaahhhh!!!!!!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by URPREY
    I'm with Marc on this one. Torifile was only trying to cause trouble.
    Tell me what "trouble" I was trying to cause? Please, because I must be missing it. I wasn't the only one confused about the need for matrixssl to get SSL working in the background because on about page 3 or 4 of this thread, someone else asked about it.

    Am I causing trouble because I grumble, in a public forum no less, about having to shell out an extra $10??? It's not like Marc is doing us a *favor*. He's in BUSINESS for Pete's sake! Never once did I demand a refund. Never once did I demand that anything at all be done. I was just expressing my surprise. And after about 30 minutes of time from my first complaint to my last post about it (before Marc's), I switched from being upset to saying "mea culpa", I should have been more attentive.

    Was that "causing trouble"?
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Ditto. Waaaahhhh!!!!!!! I didn't read the features before I bought something. Waaaahhhh!!!

    Waaaahhh!!!!! I won't tell you to screw off, instead, I will be a chicken sh!t and say "I'm inclined to...but I won't"....this way I can still say it, without having the balls to do so outright. Waaahhhhhh!!!!! Waaaahhh, I need to insult the developer, because of my own stupidity!! Waaaahhhh!!!!!!
    Screw off.
  20. #100  
    torifile - Yeah, you're right! It must be that lousy "customer service" attitude that had me respond to you within two hours on a 3rd party message board during my vacation! I won't make that mistake again!

    What a loser.

    Marc

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