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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by GXT
    Fine. So, ecmarco got all his money back, what is TC doing now? Are they continuing to advertise the product or not? Have they taken any action against the supplier? It is really ridiculous to suggest that we as customers shall only complain against the supplier, God knows where that supplier is located in today’s market. I thing TC has the obligation to check any false advertisement (in their capacity) to their customers and take action when they see one.

    They've already taken their position on the matter. You don't like it then you can do whatever you wish in response.

    For me, I will still continue to buy from TC because every store out there has this happen in one form or another. And TC is willing to offer a refund if a customer is not happy with any product they purchase from them. That's good enough for me!

    Obviously there are still a bunch of happy Mobo owners. I got mine off Ebay for $10 and for that price I think I got a good deal!
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Well I picked one of these puppies up myself. I figured for $10 from an Ebay vendor WHO CARES WHAT IT IS MADE FROM. OK ecmarco, I'll give you the point and agree with you that it is not "high quality leather". However every vendor selling this is using the same words. Which means the product maker has provided false ad copy for vendors. The vendors take a glace in the pack and figure "yea it's leather". And they are stuck with product to move.

    Also here at TC they got some review from a guy who must not work for TC (has a non-TC e-mail address) and so he figures:


    However, for $10 on Ebay if you expect a leather case you'll probably expect a diamond to cost $20 there too . Anyway, TC has a higher retail price which is probably the manufacturer's suggested retail price.

    Having said all that I don't hold TC at fault! They've been taken more than any consumer. Because they've got plenty of this product in stock and paid the manufacturer. And they will probably not have an easy time getting their money back. The real culprit is MOBO.

    But for $10 spent I really could care less. I tried it and went back to my Piel Frama (real leather and cost me about $60 years ago) case after a couple days. Just because I like the usefulness of the Piel Frama better, since it holds my SD cards better. Not because the Mobo has fake leather. I'll keep my fake leather Mobo and probably make some use of it in the future.

    Now ecmarco, although I agree it is not leather I still think your ranting towards TC is way overboard and not warranted! As you've said yourself:



    THEY ALREADY GAVE YOU ALL YOUR MONEY BACK AND LET YOU KEEP THE CASE! Now yea they did come slow with the return package to inspect the thing, but you've got all your money and EVEN YOU KNOW there are plenty other vendors selling this case with the same ad copy:
    http://www.wirelessground.com/trmocawiwaor.html
    http://search.ebay.com/treo-650-mobo_Cases-Pouches

    So they all bought into it. But no I don't think they are trying to take folks for a ride. The manufacturer MOBO is the one taking folks for a ride.
    Big difference in just stating what the manufacturer tells you and claiming that it is true after I have exposed it as false. They told me as well as, this forum that they tested the case, burned it and it was leather. They have published a review of the case and still state it to be leather. Much more than returning the money. They know the case is not leather and will not admit it and will keep selling it as leather instead of pulling it from inventory. They are the ones that need to deal with MOBO not me.
    Glad to hear (over and over again) that you only paid $10 for the case on Ebay. That is what it is worth. For $10 I wouldn't care as much. For $10 I wouldn't expect leather. Now maybe you can find your seat.
  3. #23  
    I've been seated all the time my friend. You are the one jumping around shouting like a baby!

    So TC thinks it is leather. Any customer that disagrees can return it for a full refund within 30 days. And if they have a problem with the shipping cost, as you've witnessed yourself TC will even refund that if you really feel you were taken.

    You got your money back. Get over it.

    Or if it will make you feel better, buy some of the $10 cases on Ebay and burn a few more for our enjoyment .
  4. #24  
    And ecmarco, are you planning on sharing your findings with all the other vendors out there that also say it is real leather?

    Wonder how many of them would give you all your money back including the shipping cost ....
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    And ecmarco, are you planning on sharing your findings with all the other vendors out there that also say it is real leather?

    Wonder how many of them would give you all your money back including the shipping cost ....
    You have seemingly made this a personal defense of TC. Spending so much time trying to tell me to stop making my statements when those statements are just for you now. You are the only one arguing as though you personally have a stake in this. Not too busy these days huh?
    Like I have stated before, I have posted on other sites. I have left links to my pics on those sites. TC is the one who reviewed the case and stated that they have thoroughly checked the case out and tried to burn it and still insist it is leather. the other sites haven't gone that far. Pure deception on TCs part. Now get off your soapy soap box before you slip and fall.
  6. #26  
    We all already know TC's findings to this point.

    Like I said before you might want to watch your words when you assert that TC is taking action that is "Pure deception on TCs part". You were not there at their test so you have no idea what their results were. As I've said before I think the cases are fake, however there is still the possibility that they do have leather cases, so you may want to watch yourself.

    What other sites have you told that their case is not real leather? Please post some links.

    If other vendors have ignored you and done nothing doesn't that mean they are doing much less than TC at this point? Marcus has already said he will take a deeper look into this issue.
    I am currently on vacation, but once I get back next week we will straighten this out and update the description if necessary.
    __________________
    Marcus Adolfsson
    Editor
    So TC is showing that they are looking into the matter again.

    Has any other vendor been so willing to look into this matter more?

    You are showing that TC is better than others and not deceptive.

    A deceptive vendor would have already removed this thread and kept selling with no documented promise to research things.

    Thanks for helping to prove that TC is much better a vendor than you've made them out to be.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    We all already know TC's findings to this point.

    Like I said before you might want to watch your words when you assert that TC is taking action that is "Pure deception on TCs part". You were not there at their test so you have no idea what their results were. As I've said before I think the cases are fake, however there is still the possibility that they do have leather cases, so you may want to watch yourself.

    What other sites have you told that their case is not real leather? Please post some links.

    If other vendors have ignored you and done nothing doesn't that mean they are doing much less than TC at this point? Marcus has already said he will take a deeper look into this issue.


    So TC is showing that they are looking into the matter again.

    Has any other vendor been so willing to look into this matter more?

    You are showing that TC is better than others and not deceptive.

    A deceptive vendor would have already removed this thread and kept selling with no documented promise to research things.

    Thanks for helping to prove that TC is much better a vendor than you've made them out to be.
    They are better????
    They have reviewed the case and stated it is leather in that review. That was after Marcus said he would "take a deeper look" and after I posted it was fake. that is being deceptive. yes they could remove the thread and make themselves look even more poorly. TC so far hasn't looked into anything. They would not have posted that review if they had. They have no intention of righting this problem. I don't need to be careful about anything. What I have stated is the truth and the pics I have posted on more than one site are the truth. No liability here.
    Maybe you should spend more time in law school.
    (now I guess you will try to have the final word about this again, try and make some sense)
  8. #28  
    So when are you going to answer the question asked in another thread :
    Ecmarco: You seem to be saying that TC posted the review with prior knowledge that the case was not leather. How do you know this?
    How can you say with certainty that TC did a test, looked at it and said "yep that's fake" and continued to market the product as leather?

    Were you at the test?

    Do you have some video footage?

    Have you been sent a statement from someone at the test?

    Come on Ecmarco I know you've got a bomb shell you're just waiting to drop in order to prove this now that you've stood by your statement that TC is intentionally trying to deceive the public. I just want you to stop holding out on all of us here and give us the scoop .

    And any time you're ready to respond to this I'd like to see it too:
    What other sites have you told that their case is not real leather? Please post some links.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    So when are you going to answer the question asked in another thread :
    Try mytreo.net and treobits.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    How can you say with certainty that TC did a test, looked at it and said "yep that's fake" and continued to market the product as leather?
    Because they sent an email to me after I questioned that the material was not leather and they stated on this forum that they burned the case and it was not vinyl. This was way before they published the review.

    Were you at the test?

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Do you have some video footage?
    I have some video but not a clip that would have anything to do with your "discussion."

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Have you been sent a statement from someone at the test?
    Yes.

    Come on Ecmarco I know you've got a bomb shell you're just waiting to drop in order to prove this now that you've stood by your statement that TC is intentionally trying to deceive the public. I just want you to stop holding out on all of us here and give us the scoop .

    And any time you're ready to respond to this I'd like to see it too:
    Some people have more going on in their life than to dance in words with you.
  10. #30  
    ecmarco: I posted on the other thread about this...is it possible that there are leather and vinyl cases out there? If so, that could explain how TC came to its conclusion that its burn test was either conclusive (or inconclusive) to show that it wasn't vinyl like you said.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  11. #31  
    ecmarco - Your posts at mytreo.net address TC and only mentioned other vendors after someone else mentioned it. MyTreo.net is not selling the Mobo now. Are you saying you convinced them to pull it? I don't know where your comments are on treobits, but you can offer direct links to your statements if you'd like.

    You still have not shown that you lodged a complaint at any other vendor that sells the Mobo on their site as you've done with TC.

    Also you still have not answered t2gungho question that I linked to. And you have not proven that they do not have a leather case in their possession.

    While I think TC has made a mistake or may have been misled by the vendor providing mixed stock you feel they have intentionally deceived the public. And I'm still waiting for you to prove that.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    ecmarco - Your posts at mytreo.net address TC and only mentioned other vendors after someone else mentioned it. MyTreo.net is not selling the Mobo now. Are you saying you convinced them to pull it? I don't know where your comments are on treobits, but you can offer direct links to your statements if you'd like.

    You still have not shown that you lodged a complaint at any other vendor that sells the Mobo on their site as you've done with TC.

    Also you still have not answered t2gungho question that I linked to. And you have not proven that they do not have a leather case in their possession.

    While I think TC has made a mistake or may have been misled by the vendor providing mixed stock you feel they have intentionally deceived the public. And I'm still waiting for you to prove that.
    I doubt that you would accept any other proof provided. You are one of those "get the last word in because I'm right" guys. You don't bother reading the posts about this and continue to insist that I haven't stated or have stated something. Can you prove anything? I don't think so. Can I? Yes. I have a case in my possession. TC insisted that it is leather. They tested the case they have but have not provided any proof of the test that shows the "burn" they have inflicted on it. I have. I have seen so far 3 cases of the same model and all are vinyl. I have visited many sites that sell it and the images provide are the same that TC provides in their store.
    Now, if you want to reepresent TC in a legal battle over this go ahead. you won't win. if they were correct in what they claim they would have provide proof such as photos, model number for a non-leather case versus a letaher case, provided manufacturer docs showing the materials used. They haven't but have been given opportunities to do so. Even before I posted how they handled this matter they couldn't and wouldn't provide proof of their claims. I have. They know it isn't leather and wrote about it in the review published after I posted my complaint.
    This has been beaten to death on this forum. If you can provide any and I mean any factual info to otherwise disprove my photos and claim I suggest that you find another post to pick on and waste time with. You're starting to bore me. Put up or shut up.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    I doubt that you would accept any other proof provided.
    Because you still have not proven that TC lied about anything! Proof that they lied would involve showing that they know how to tell something is fake from a test result, ran a test on a case, saw that the results proved it was not leather and then decided to lie about it all. You have no proof about anything done by TC. So you cannot conclusively say they lied about anything. This is why I maintain they may be mistaken. I have no conclusive proof of a lie. Yes they said your case was leather and you have proven that your case is not, but that's about it. You were given a full refund and allowed to keep the case.

    You are one of those "get the last word in because I'm right" guys.
    No I'm just one of those guys that you are upset is holding your feet to the fire!

    You don't bother reading the posts about this and continue to insist that I haven't stated or have stated something.
    I've read what you've said here and you still have not proven that TC has knowingly lied to the public.

    Can you prove anything? I don't think so. Can I? Yes.
    You are the one who initiated the claim against TC. So the burden to prove they are knowingly spreading false information is on YOU NOT ME. So I don't have to prove anything. I'm asking you to prove your claim. But you are only able to prove that the cases you've seen are fake and I've told you I have a fake one. Still you have not prove that all of TC's are fake and they know they are fake.

    I have a case in my possession. TC insisted that it is leather.
    Everyone already agrees you are right about your case being fake. TC gave you all your money back including the shipping cost and let you keep the case.

    They tested the case they have but have not provided any proof of the test that shows the "burn" they have inflicted on it. I have.
    This does not mean they are telling a lie. It does not even prove they are knowledgeable when it comes to telling if something is fake to begin with. The folks at TC are in no way leather experts. This again is another reason why I say they may be mistaken. Not that they are telling a bold face lie like you are saying.

    I have seen so far 3 cases of the same model and all are vinyl. I have visited many sites that sell it and the images provide are the same that TC provides in their store.
    They all probably got stock pics from the vendor. This proves nothing. Yea my case is fake too. And still you have not proven that TC knows it is fake and is knowingly telling a lie to the public.

    Now, if you want to reepresent TC in a legal battle over this go ahead. you won't win.
    Has nothing to do with trying to represent them. Just you proving your claim that they are knowingly telling a lie. Which you have not proven to this point.

    if they were correct in what they claim they would have provide proof such as photos,
    If I know the sky is blue do I need to post a picture here? I know mine is fake and have not posted anything to prove it. TC feels their test showed it was real. First of all I don't know if they even know what to look for. So even if they ran test on a fake case I can't say they'd know for certain the results although they might feel they know themselves. A mistake, but not a lie.

    model number for a non-leather case versus a letaher case,
    I don't think mine has a model number on it. Does yours?

    provided manufacturer docs showing the materials used.
    The manufacturer says it is leather! That is where the real issue is to be had.

    They haven't but have been given opportunities to do so. Even before I posted how they handled this matter they couldn't and wouldn't provide proof of their claims. I have.
    Here we go with proving the sky is blue again... They gave you all your money back, so they don't owe you any pictures.

    They know it isn't leather and wrote about it in the review published after I posted my complaint.
    The person doing the review felt it was leather. Most sellers of the Mobo say it is leather too.

    This has been beaten to death on this forum.
    Yea because of the many threads you've made about it. Pat yourself on the back for realizing you've beating it to death !

    If you can provide any and I mean any factual info to otherwise disprove my photos and claim I suggest that you find another post to pick on and waste time with.
    Obviously it is you who are not reading my post . I have said many times over that I agree with you that the cases are fake. Where I disagree with you is in your accusation that TC knows they are fake and knowingly trying to deceive the public. Got it?

    You are the one who still has not proven that TC knows the material is fake and trying to lie about it. I feel they probably don't know how to tell or this is an issue of mixed stock from the supplier.


    You're starting to bore me. Put up or shut up.
    It's all on you. Put up some proof that TC found the case to be fake and still lied about it. That is something that cannot be proven to this point.

    Marcus did say he would get to the bottom of this when he got back. Which should have been this week. So Marcus, what's the deal?
    Last edited by darnell; 08/09/2005 at 05:26 PM.
  14. #34  
    Ecmarco: I am not saying that you are lying or making this up. I'm only posting to clarify/point out a couple points.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    Can you prove anything? I don't think so. Can I? Yes. I have a case in my possession.
    Having the case in your possession does very little to prove to anyone else that the case is vinyl because WE haven't seen the case...you've posted some pictures...but pictures on their own are not always reliable (remember the photoshopped pics of different treo devices...you can't blame us for being skeptics. )

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    TC insisted that it is leather. They tested the case they have but have not provided any proof of the test that shows the "burn" they have inflicted on it. I have. I have seen so far 3 cases of the same model and all are vinyl.
    This is more proof for you but doesn't lead everyone else to believe your claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    I have visited many sites that sell it and the images provide are the same that TC provides in their store.
    What does this prove? That because they use the same images that the products must be the same material as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    if they were correct in what they claim they would have provide proof such as photos, model number for a non-leather case versus a letaher case, provided manufacturer docs showing the materials used.
    This isnt true. It is the plaintiff's burden to prove that the case is not made of leather. It doesnt legally nor logically follow that TC would have to provide proof of a claim against every 'Tom, **** and Harry' who makes a false advertising claim. The legal rule (in most instances) for criminal law is that you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that TC lied/misrepresented/false advertised with (usually) a specific intent. That is a big burden to climb. If you sue in civil court, the burden is much easier to satisfy (preponderance of the evidence). But even if you go the tort/contract claim...you still have a ways to go to prove that TC is legally wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    They haven't but have been given opportunities to do so. Even before I posted how they handled this matter they couldn't and wouldn't provide proof of their claims.
    Like I said, they don't have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    I have.
    You've provided pictures and that's a start, but it's not conclusive evidence by any means.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    They know it isn't leather and wrote about it in the review published after I posted my complaint.
    Why would they change the review based on one persons testimony? Would you? Another related question...how do you know that the person who wrote the review read your post that claimed it was vinyl? (If you have posted this answer before...let me know.) Finally, how would TC even know that you are a credible source on leather products and burn tests...you see where I am going with this? My point is that there are a lot of questions to which I have not seen a lot of answers that you need to provide in order to make your claim more legitimate (at least for Darnell and I to believe you .

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    This has been beaten to death on this forum.
    It has but I love to argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    If you can provide any and I mean any factual info to otherwise disprove my photos and claim I suggest that you find another post to pick on and waste time with. You're starting to bore me. Put up or shut up.
    You are putting the burden of proof on us when it's really on you.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  15. #35  
    After looking in the case it does have a little tag inside with a model number: Smart VP32 Treo.600
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    After looking in the case it does have a little tag inside with a model number: Smart VP32 Treo.600
    I think that you mean VP23 not VP32.
    In court my claims would hold up because I could show all of my correspondence with TC and what they claim they did and what they really did. I would also be able to show the case I was sent and how it burned and ask that TC provide a leather model which they couldn't do. I asked in my first request to TC when I said they sent the wrong case, to please send the leather model. They state that this(my case) is the same case they have. I will not post every personal message that was sent. But TC can also provide proof to me and everyone else that it was a mistake. Pretty easy to do. Also pretty easy to admit it is a mistake. But instead of doing that they are hiding and presenting more false claims is a review. I make a claim and they do nothing to disprove it.
  17. #38  
    Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer TreoCentral moderator but have absolutely NO affiliation with the TC Store.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecmarco
    In court my claims would hold up because I could show all of my correspondence with TC and what they claim they did and what they really did.
    Your claim would only hold up until the judge heard that TC gave you a FULL refund, including shipping charges. Beyond that, there's nothing more they need to do.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  18. #39  
    I am back from vacation now and will contact the manufacturer. If the case is vinyl, we will update the product description (as I stated in the other thread). We don't want miss-information on the site.

    The review was done by Doug, who is not affiliated with the store and likely did not follow the threads about the case.
  19. #40  
    Can we the jury come to a verdict?
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