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  1. #441  
    Hi Jeff! Did Igor change it? He always used to send the vchrBacklight since the first version of PalmInternals. Also, null events are sent quite often in the daily life of a Palm.

    regards, tyler
  2. #442  
    Hey all. I have more news.

    I needed a program (or set of programs) that could automatically turn off my sounds at 3:30 in the morning. Then peform a soft reset. Then RBackup would do a whole backup at 4 in the morning on its own. Then I needed another soft reset after the backup to clear out the NV cache. Then a program had to automatically turn the sounds back on at 4:30 in the morning.

    Sounds like ProfileCare, right? Well sure, but I don't use programs that use Hede badly and clober my PalmInternals Speed Test. Sorry if that seems harsh, but my Treo is fast and stable because of it. I use VolumeCare though, because it meets my criteria.

    So what do to? A little research turned up the following HEDE-friendly prorgams, and they all work well together:

    - KillSound 1.2 (http://www.palmgear.com/?xyz=84267)
    A lot like ProfileCare, but it ONLY works with sounds. There's no keylauncher or status indicator either. It just uses Palm Alarms to turn its profiles on and off at certain times, and those profiles deal only with sound settings. $10.

    -LookAtMe 1.4 (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/...4-palm-pc.html)
    A basic alarm clock program, but it can also run programs at a certain time of day. Freeware. Last updated in 2001 (!), but it is small (19k). Seems very stable, but I've only had it running for half a week.

    - mReset (http://www.macpel.com/html/palm.htm)
    A freeware application that performs a softreset instantly. RNS Soft Reset (http://ranosoft.net/palm) is also good, but when it starts, it requires user interaction on the screen to perform a reset. mReset just does it instantly, making it perfect to be called from other programs.

    The sequence?

    I have KillSound mute the treo at 3:30am.
    I have LookAtMe execute mReset at 3:45. The treo resets silently.
    I have rBackup perform two backups. One of RAM, and one of the Internal Drive.
    I have LookAtMe execute mReset again at 4:15 again. The Treo resets silently.
    Then KillSound unmutes the device at 4:30.
    Then I wake up with a backed up, freshly booted Treo.

    I'll post various HEDE measurements after lunch...

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  3. aldamon's Avatar
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       #443  
    Yup. I use RadioControl, RBackup, and LookAtMe w/ mReset every day.

    I also recommend using Radio State which will return the radio to its previous state after a reset instead of indiscriminantly turning on after every reset. Very useful when automating resets and backups.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=73080
  4. #444  
    Anyone has "hede" with "actnames"?. Actnames is Agendus???????. I have Agendus Pro. Thanks
  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by armevi
    Anyone has "hede" with "actnames"?. Actnames is Agendus???????. I have Agendus Pro. Thanks
    I myself do NOT have Actnames under Hede. (BTW, Agendus used to be called "Action Names," and I guess a lot of Agendus' internal code still has this moniker.) That said, I can take a guess: if you have Agendus set to automatically check for updates, or maybe if it is set to automatically get the quote of the day or weather, then it will use HEDE. Try turing off these functions and see if HEDE goes away.

    I don't use these features.

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by aldamon
    Yup. I use RadioControl, RBackup, and LookAtMe w/ mReset every day.

    I also recommend using Radio State which will return the radio to its previous state after a reset instead of indiscriminantly turning on after every reset. Very useful when automating resets and backups.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=73080
    RadioState looks very interesting. Currently, I use TreoHelper for two features: to turn on the radio after a reset (I don't care if it ever turns on in a plane. I don't travel that much, and I can turn it off as it turns on should a reset occur when airborne) and to watch my SMS messages for a "lock" command should the treo ever get lost. If I used RadioState for turning on the radio silently, I would *still* need treo helper. Hmmm. But then I wouldn't need KillSound. Hmmmmmmmmm.

    I'm assuming RadioState doesn't use HEDE?

    Now then, here is a list of programs that are always running in the background on my Treo:

    Butler
    DA Launcher (with about 6 desk accessories installed)
    Fonts4OS5 (and two fonts)
    Graffiti Anywhere
    KeyCaps600 (as patched earlier in this thread to eliminate HEDE By Daniel Sachs)
    KeyGTime+
    Kill Sound
    SnapCalc5
    SnapDates
    TreoHelper
    VolumeCare
    ChatterEmail (always checking email in the background via imap)

    And then there are these apps that execute on a Timer or manipulate alarms:

    Agendus 10 Pro
    LookAtMe
    RBackup

    And then there's the IR Keyboard driver that I only install when I need it. Otherwise, it is deleted from RAM and lives in the SD card. I copy it over as necessay.

    And my PalmInternal's Speed Test score is:

    622 ticks (6 seconds)

    And the system is very stable overall. I never even had the need for nightly resets until I started using Rbackup (it leaves the NVCache in a terrible state). I don't even use Resco Locker (though I guess I might look into it just to see what it does.)

    Anyway, just another data point to a very long thread.

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  7. #447  
    Quote Originally Posted by wernst
    I myself do NOT have Actnames under Hede. (BTW, Agendus used to be called "Action Names," and I guess a lot of Agendus' internal code still has this moniker.) That said, I can take a guess: if you have Agendus set to automatically check for updates, or maybe if it is set to automatically get the quote of the day or weather, then it will use HEDE. Try turing off these functions and see if HEDE goes away.

    I don't use these features.

    -Warr
    Hi Warr I don't use these features too, I don't know Why (always hede)!
  8. #448  
    is this right? my speed test is 7sec but when I enable Profiles101 it jumps to 39, if I enables profilecare instead of Profiles the speed jumps to 51secs!!
    Treoing & Loving it
  9. #449  
    Quote Originally Posted by gt5l
    is this right? my speed test is 7sec but when I enable Profiles101 it jumps to 39, if I enables profilecare instead of Profiles the speed jumps to 51secs!!
    Sounds right to me.

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  10. #450  
    that's half a log?
    Treoing & Loving it
  11. aldamon's Avatar
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       #451  
    Quote Originally Posted by wernst
    RadioState looks very interesting. Currently, I use TreoHelper for two features: to turn on the radio after a reset (I don't care if it ever turns on in a plane. I don't travel that much, and I can turn it off as it turns on should a reset occur when airborne) and to watch my SMS messages for a "lock" command should the treo ever get lost. If I used RadioState for turning on the radio silently, I would *still* need treo helper. Hmmm. But then I wouldn't need KillSound. Hmmmmmmmmm.

    I'm assuming RadioState doesn't use HEDE?
    I don't think I was clear. There a lot of programs out there that can turn the radio on after a reset. I must have a half dozen or so installed right now that can do that. RadioState is different because it returns the radio to its previous state after a reset. So if the radio is off before the reset, it stays off after a reset and vice-versa. See the difference? RadioState is a much more eloquent solution than simply forcing the radio on after a reset.

    I have the program Radio Control configured to turn off my radio every night at 11:30. RadioState ensures the radio stays off during my nightly LookAtMe/mReset/RBackup/LookAtMe/mReset routine. I've found the radio can interfere with backups, so RadioState is a crucial program.

    RadioState does not use HEDE.
  12. #452  
    Quote Originally Posted by aldamon
    I don't think I was clear. There a lot of programs out there that can turn the radio on after a reset. I must have a half dozen or so installed right now that can do that. RadioState is different because it returns the radio to its previous state after a reset. So if the radio is off before the reset, it stays off after a reset and vice-versa. See the difference? RadioState is a much more eloquent solution than simply forcing the radio on after a reset.

    I have the program Radio Control configured to turn off my radio every night at 11:30. RadioState ensures the radio stays off during my nightly LookAtMe/mReset/RBackup/LookAtMe/mReset routine. I've found the radio can interfere with backups, so RadioState is a crucial program.

    RadioState does not use HEDE.
    No you were clear.

    RadioState is interesting to me NOT because it elegantly looks at the radio state before a reset to determine whether or not to turn it on after a reset (becasue my radio is ALWAYS on).

    No, it is interesting because it will turn on the radio after a reset SILENTLY, at least says that thread you linked to earlier.

    If it can turn on the radio silently at night after a reset, then I don't need a sound profile of "silence" for an hour while all this stuff is happening.

    Now, having the radio on interfering with a backup is news to me. I've not read that before. Still, I can have TreoHelper turn off the radio at a certain time of night and turn it on again, and RadioState will honor the radio's condition after a reset. That's interesting too.

    And of course, RadioState not using HEDE is music to my ears.

    And on top of it all, it is free, and the sound profile program I've found is $10. So I guess I WILL be checking this out.

    Man, this is a long thread.

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  13. #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by wernst
    Man, this is a long thread.
    Correction: This is a VEEERRRRRRRY long thread
  14. #454  
    I emailed the developers of Central about this HEDE question and this is the response.

    'To use PalmInternals to gauge the speed of an application or its impact on the overall performance of the Treo especially when it comes to HEDE is not really appropriate. Central will have zero noticeable impact on the Treo. HEDE is all about the use of the keyboard, if you are not using the keyboard it has minimal impact on the Treo performance at all. PalmInternals sends a large number of keyboard events to the queue and times how long it takes to process these events. This never happens in the real world. This should be made clear. It would take someone typing at 100 words per minute to notice any impact at all through Central's HEDE overhead. Even at this typing speed Central's impact would be barely noticeable.

    Why do some applications have a HEDE impact? Because Central has to check each key input as a part of its normal function. This takes far less than a thousandth of a second to do. Central runs in the background and so is always going to have a HEDE overhead. The main reason that Central and Butler show different timings is that Central launches favorites directly when a button is held down for two seconds. Butler launches the Phone application which then launches the favorite. Because we launch the favorite directly we have to check whether their is an actual favorite associated with the key. You may have noticed that even if there is no favorite assigned to a key Butler will still launch the Phone application.

    Finally if you believe that Central is impacting your Treo performance disable some of its functions. I will bet that it will not be the cause of your slow downs.'

    I have to say that I have been running all of Central's features and have noticed no speed impact, so what they say appears to be true to me.

    Joe
  15. aldamon's Avatar
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       #455  
    BS. Central killed my framerate in Nesem. I have no use for a program that slows down the Treo.

    Central is also a PITA to uninstall. Not worth the time or frustration.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...hlight=central
  16. #456  
    Quote Originally Posted by serious joe
    Central runs in the background and so is always going to have a HEDE overhead.
    This is of course true, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by serious joe
    The main reason that Central and Butler show different timings is that Central launches favorites directly when a button is held down for two seconds. Butler launches the Phone application which then launches the favorite. Because we launch the favorite directly we have to check whether their is an actual favorite associated with the key. You may have noticed that even if there is no favorite assigned to a key Butler will still launch the Phone application.
    This is BS.

    The reason that Butler adds about 2-3 seconds to the event loop is because it uses a callback hook into the event queue. Internally, PalmOS makes a function call. Butler runs, checks the keyboard, and returns. PalmOS continues processing the event.

    The reason Central takes 37 seconds is because it's using a sublaunch callback. To process this kind of callback, PalmOS looks at the NVFS cache, finds and locks the application code, sets up the application environment, and starts the application. The application checks its launch code and makes a call into the event-handling routine. The event-handling routine checks the keyboard. The event handler returns, and the application terminates, returning control to PalmOS. PalmOS unwinds the application environment and continues where it left off. Unsurprisingly, this process takes quite a bit longer than the simple function call used by Butler.

    In fact, not only is the explanation for the difference in event-loop overlhead completely bogus, current versions of Butler launch favorite applications directly in exactly the same way Central does.

    Quote Originally Posted by serious joe
    ...I will bet that it will not be the cause of your slow downs.
    In general, this is true. The amount of time processing the event loop, as long as it's under about a twentieth of a second (that's a score of 500 seconds) is not going to be noticeable in general PDA applications. However, even at values much lower than that it's going to greatly slow down games and other applications that must update the screen or respond to user input frequently, or that do long tasks while allowing the user to interrupt. This class includes some built-in applications like the camera and multimedia viewer, and other applications like the file search in Documents to Go.
  17. #457  
    I just stumbled across this thread for the first time.

    Time in tics 11073, time in secs 111. Could explain why I'm about to wipe my Treo and start anew, it's been soooooo slow.

    Under hede:
    Keyshades hack
    Butler
    ShortCut5
    ScreenShot5
    KeyCaps600

    Very interesting...
    Cingular GSM Treo 650, Apple PowerBook G4, iQue 3600, iPod Photo 60GB
    PalmPilot > Palm Vx > Palm M505 > Garmin iQue 3600 > Treo 650


    Seek first to understand, then to be Understood
  18. wbwjr's Avatar
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    #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by wernst
    I myself do NOT have Actnames under Hede. (BTW, Agendus used to be called "Action Names," and I guess a lot of Agendus' internal code still has this moniker.) That said, I can take a guess: if you have Agendus set to automatically check for updates, or maybe if it is set to automatically get the quote of the day or weather, then it will use HEDE. Try turing off these functions and see if HEDE goes away.

    I don't use these features.

    -Warr
    I think you solved my problems with RBackup crashing the Treo. I recently enabled check for updates (had extra time to goof off) for the weather in my area. Couldn't figure out why I kept having crashes during backups. I just reset Agendus to its defaults and now it can complete a backup.

    Thanks wernst
  19. aldamon's Avatar
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       #459  
    Quote Originally Posted by doomsey
    However, even at values much lower than that it's going to greatly slow down games and other applications that must update the screen or respond to user input frequently, or that do long tasks while allowing the user to interrupt. This class includes some built-in applications like the camera and multimedia viewer, and other applications like the file search in Documents to Go.
    Thank you. These are all common functions and obviously the devlopers of Central didn't check for a drop in speed because it's definitely there with a 37-second hit in PI.
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnmunch
    I just stumbled across this thread for the first time.

    Time in tics 11073, time in secs 111. Could explain why I'm about to wipe my Treo and start anew, it's been soooooo slow.

    Under hede:
    Keyshades hack
    Butler
    ShortCut5
    ScreenShot5
    KeyCaps600

    Very interesting...
    1. As much as I loved ShortCut5, it really slows things down. Here's a substitute that doesn't affect system speed:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?&p=835958

    2. Make sure that you're using the latest version of keyshades and doomsey's version of KeyCaps600:
    http://shrug.csl.uiuc.edu/~sachs/palm/
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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